ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[Tricia]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT CHRIS MCDONOUGH AND THE INTERVIEW ROOM

Nothing that Chris M says is allowed on this forum unless it is backed up by law enforcement. ​

Chris has personally lied to me. He accused an innocent man of being Brian Laundry. He lied about being removed from the Crow lawsuit. He was removed but then put back in the lawsuit and lost. Chris told me he was removed from the lawsuit and was not sued. He never told me he was added back into the lawsuit and lost. Chris was sued for getting a false confession in the murder of Stephanie Crow.
I could go on but suffice it to say anything he says is not allowed. Even if it is in mainstream media.

Again only if what he said is backed up by an actual law enforcement source.

Here is the documentation on the Crow lawsuit
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Ruling from 2010 which overrules Dougie's decision from 2004.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/01/14/05-55467.pdf

Retired judge slams Crowe case

ESCONDIDO: Retired judge slams police conduct in Crowe case

www.courant.com

ESCONDIDO: Crowe family settles civil rights lawsuit for $7.25 million

Nearly 14 years after Stephanie Crowe was stabbed to death inher Escondido bedroom, her family agreed to a $7.25 millionsettlement with the cities of Escondido and Oceanside for what oneappeals cou…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

"A federal trial judge in San Diego dismissed the bulk of the civil rights suit in 2004. But six years later, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals revived the lawsuit, finding that Escondido police violated the civil rights of Crowe and his friends during “hours of grueling, psychologically abusive interrogations.”

The above links come from a great YouTube creator called Scientific Skeptic. If you go to this video there are more links describing the interrogation tools used by Chris and others in the Crow case,

Because Chris mistakenly named the wrong man on my YouTube channel and never told me to take down the false information I made this apology video when I discovered what happened,
Here is the apology video I had to make because of what Chris said on my Livestream.

The glove that Chris found was not there on the day of the Moscow Idaho murders

The MOB Crew has a great video showing the ground the day of the killing where the glove was found later in the month. On that day the glove was not there. Go to @2:35 of this video

I am not suggesting Chris did not legitimately find the glove. Just showing you it has nothing to do with the case. I will be shocked if Chris updates the story about the glove.

For those of you who know me this is an extremely unusual step for me to take. This is how strongly I feel. I was lied to but more importantly, because of Chris' actions, people's lives were threatened in the Summer Wells case.

Please do not discuss this post on this thread. If you have any questions please email me at websleuthsvideos@gmail.com
Tricia

 

[Sillybilly]

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Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

The Report feature is for members to alert us to violations of Websleuths Terms of Service, not to have us fact-checking all the minute details of every single case. WS has hundreds of alerts that our very few volunteer staff have to stick-handle every single day. We can not possibly know all the minute details of every case, and we do not have time to correct misinformation that may crop up in the various threads.

While rumors are a violation of TOS, simple misinformation or a misstatement of fact is not. If misinformation creeps into the thread, please just correct it on the thread through respectful discussion, supported by links to the correct details.

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And please forego the virtue signalling. The discussion isn’t about us or our own perfect values.

Thanks !!

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Folks, it is only member speculation that these killings could be the work of a serial killer.

Please leave Bundy and the rest of that mottley crew out of this discussion until/unless LE indicates there could be a SK at work here.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

The "public's right to know" discussion has derailed this thread for pages now. That is a social justice issue (which will never be solved via discussion at Websleuths) ... when the actual topic of this discussion is the tragic killing of 4 young adults.

Move on to discuss the actual case.

Thank you.

 

[YaYa_521]

Review The Rules and the Mod Notes in the previous 25 posts then continue here.

 

[layer]

Why are we all talking about mass murders? It's Christmas!
This photo from M's dad just brings it all home for me.

 

[Past Mortem]

One thing that made an impact on me is that the police officer in one of the body cam videos (September noise complaint, I think) said something along the lines of the house being an “unofficial sorority house.” It has that reputation and because of that reputation could be a sinister focus of a male bent on making females pay for their perceived transgressions against him. However, the perp would have to have enough of a connection to the Moscow community to know this. He could be a student who was rejected by the Greek community; a male turned down by a sorority sister; or just a person with a vendetta against women.

I am not sure if U of I have a campus police department or if Moscow police patrol campus. I hope they are looking at current or former male students who have come to the attention of campus authorities.

Thanks for your response to this. IMO I lean more towards a scenario like this with each passing day. I don’t think SK, but I do think someone not known or at least not well known to the victims that obsessed with every detail of his fantasy and was watching the house for the girls in particular and decided that was the night, probably because it was quiet for once. IMO someone who is a bit of a loner or rejected or bullied by College life.

I keep going back to Jayme Closs and how the right opportunity at the right time allowed him to act on his fantasy and make it real life.

 

[CGray123]

Thanks for your response to this. IMO I lean more towards a scenario like this with each passing day. I don’t think SK, but I do think someone not known or at least not well known to the victims that obsessed with every detail of his fantasy and was watching the house for the girls in particular and decided that was the night, probably because it was quiet for once. IMO someone who is a bit of a loner or rejected or bullied by College life.

I keep going back to Jayme Closs and how the right opportunity at the right time allowed him to act on his fantasy and make it real life.

I would not be surprised if something like your scenario is eventually proved.

Right now, I see no reason to disagree with LE's assessment that these murders were committed by someone in the victim's circle of acquaintances - not close; perhaps a classmate or co-worker. IMO, perhaps (s)he is someone who is not necessarily mentally ill or sociopathic, but who has a paranoid streak (small p), who vigilantly identifies and accumulates grievances, and who over time comes to blame a person or group of people. This seems to be how it goes in so many of these cases. The person recently may have experienced a triggering event - a loss or failure that focused this anger and motivated him (or her) to kill this group of people, or one of them - in order to end the humiliation.

MOO, this is most likely the profile initially provided to LE by FBI profilers. It would provide at least a partial basis for LE to tell the community the murders seem to be targeted.

All MOO.

 

[redrunner02]

My thoughts have gone in several directions. For sleuthers (like me)... not knowing who was actually asleep when they were attacked and who wasn't leaves so many different scenarios. I mean we just have to speculate. I think that early statement by the coroner "that most were asleep". That in itself can mean more then one thing. Did the perp stealthily deliver a fatal slash as they were sleeping. Or were they sleeping but woke because of a lot of noise coming from either upstairs or down stairs. I think we know for certain that at least one of the victims had defensive wounds. What if 3 of the 4 had defensive wounds? One other thing that I keep thinking about. Do we know for sure that KG was actually sleeping in MM's room or was she just found in there? This info about sleeping was released by k's father not LE. Is it possible she hears M's screams and enters confronting the perp?

 

[Janeumayer]

Idaho victim's dad convinced killer made mistake will lead to capture

Idaho victim Maddie Mogen's dad Ben Mogen says he is convinced the killer made a mistake at the scene that will lead to their capture, but admits he is surprised he is 'still waiting' for answers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SMK777]

Why are we all talking about mass murders? It's Christmas!
This photo from M's dad just brings it all home for me.

View attachment 389981

Such a sweet picture. Looks just like her in her college pics. Her father is heartbroken. His only baby.

 

[SMK777]

Idaho victim's dad convinced killer made mistake will lead to capture

Idaho victim Maddie Mogen's dad Ben Mogen says he is convinced the killer made a mistake at the scene that will lead to their capture, but admits he is surprised he is 'still waiting' for answers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I sure hope so. And the sooner the better.

 

[Breakout]

I would not be surprised if something like your scenario is eventually proved.

Right now, I see no reason to disagree with LE's assessment that these murders were committed by someone in the victim's circle of acquaintances - not close; perhaps a classmate or co-worker. IMO, perhaps (s)he is someone who is not necessarily mentally ill or sociopathic, but who has a paranoid streak (small p), who vigilantly identifies and accumulates grievances, and who over time comes to blame a person or group of people. This seems to be how it goes in so many of these cases. The person recently may have experienced a triggering event - a loss or failure that focused this anger and motivated him (or her) to kill this group of people, or one of them - in order to end the humiliation.

MOO, this is most likely the profile initially provided to LE by FBI profilers. It would provide at least a partial basis for LE to tell the community the murders seem to be targeted.

All MOO.

If he’s a grievance collector he’s going to be angry. But he’s going to be enough of a narcissist and a loner that no one is going to get close enough to know him that well. I don’t think he will be on social media, profile posting at least, because he will not want to tip anyone off to his strong emotions. He wants to fly under the radar. Very few people may wonder about him but put on blinders and make excuses for his odd ways (family). This attack was planned but also was impulsive and took on great risk. Makes me wonder about a trigger. I suspect he’s a hunter, military, or at least was cruel to animals, but no one may have ever known about it. He had to have experimented with death beforehand to attempt to what he did that night.

 

[layer]

Do we know for sure that KG was actually sleeping in MM's room or was she just found in there? This info about sleeping was released by k's father not LE. Is it possible she hears M's screams and enters confronting the perp?

The coroner said they were all likely asleep when attacked, and all found in bed. Until or unless I am forced to think differently, I'm just going to go with the idea that they died in their sleep. That works for me.

I know, I know. People gotta sleuth. And I don't sleight people for doing that. And I will sleuth every other aspect of this horror.

But that works for me...

 

[JJ Ray]

My 2 cents....similar to the recent comments directly above but with a "townie" (or expanded rural area) that comes into Moscow/Pullman to party. Interacts, gets shut down, or just sees his life is not going to be the bright shiny future of the college set. Those grievances build and this is the night to vent. Clearly a hunter or someone used to handling a large knife.

I also have wondered about Grub Hub and Uber eats drivers that would have access to the house when delivering....maybe getting rejected, under tipped, etc. I would hope this line of inquiry would have been followed up on with the two remaining students or friends.

 

[Sunny Texas]

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

This case is similar to the college killings in 1990 at The University of Florida at Gainesville. It is! Rolling, when captured, said he was just trying to show his father that he was "good at something." This is why I don't get involved in trying to figure out the motivations of psychopaths...

www.websleuths.com

K's sister saw the neighbor's footage of K&M's arrival home that night. This was first reported in the week following the killings. I know that it was mentioned in a report by Inside Edition. This IS in the media thread, and it's been mentioned many times on just about every thread on this case. IF X&E spent the evening at the frat house, as theorized by LE, then their logical path back home that night would have been on foot less than 600 feet across Taylor, up the path straight to the front of 1122. We aren't sure that happened, because it's possible they had gone somewhere else besides the frat house that night, so they could have arrived home by another route. Like I said in my post, MOO.

This is in response to 10ofRods, who said, "Source for that? Is it your (unfounded) opinion that the neighbor's cam caught the car? It seems to me that you must either have insider knowledge or MSM is simply not reporting on that.

Where are you reading about K and M being in a car that passed by a neighbor's cam? Needs to be in the media thread for sure."

 

[DeDee]

K's father thinks K may have been the target "because the killer didn't have to go upstairs."

K's injuries are different than MM's wounds.

Are the wounds different because of the force behind the stabbing, tearing away at tissues?

There is little doubt that what we've been thinking was blood dripping down the exterior wall is indeed, sadly enough, either Ethan's or Xana's. This killer is fierce with the weapon. AMHOO

This killer's success depended upon the four college students being asleep, and possibly inebriated, when viciously attacked. That is the strength of their success. The element of surprise is worth everything when you don't want to get caught. It was the only way to get this deed done. They needed to kill four and get away. Kill em in their sleep. Coward.

 

[Past Mortem]

I would not be surprised if something like your scenario is eventually proved.

Right now, I see no reason to disagree with LE's assessment that these murders were committed by someone in the victim's circle of acquaintances - not close; perhaps a classmate or co-worker. IMO, perhaps (s)he is someone who is not necessarily mentally ill or sociopathic, but who has a paranoid streak (small p), who vigilantly identifies and accumulates grievances, and who over time comes to blame a person or group of people. This seems to be how it goes in so many of these cases. The person recently may have experienced a triggering event - a loss or failure that focused this anger and motivated him (or her) to kill this group of people, or one of them - in order to end the humiliation.

MOO, this is most likely the profile initially provided to LE by FBI profilers. It would provide at least a partial basis for LE to tell the community the murders seem to be targeted.

All MOO.

If he’s a grievance collector he’s going to be angry. But he’s going to be enough of a narcissist and a loner that no one is going to get close enough to know him that well. I don’t think he will be on social media, profile posting at least, because he will not want to tip anyone off to his strong emotions. He wants to fly under the radar. Very few people may wonder about him but put on blinders and make excuses for his odd ways (family). This attack was planned but also was impulsive and took on great risk. Makes me wonder about a trigger. I suspect he’s a hunter, military, or at least was cruel to animals, but no one may have ever known about it. He had to have experimented with death beforehand to attempt to what he did that night.

Yes to both of these posts, it’s where my thought is with this case right now.

I completely agree with other posters saying that someone capable of such a horrific crime is always a danger to the community regardless of whether it was a ‘targeted’ attack, however I do also see it being possible it is a one and done type crime and possibly that’s why LE isn’t as concerned about further attacks. IMO this person was so obsessed with his fantasy that he would potentially lose touch of reality and maybe even that night he got so caught up in the rush of it all coming to life or even the rush and adrenaline of letting all that pent up rage out that he lost his sense of reality in that moment. I can see that type of person possibly even regretting or being shocked at what they were capable of. Not enough to turn themselves in of course but maybe enough to not do it again or at least not for quite some time.

I wonder if he is someone rejected by college life as others have suggested, maybe slightly older college drop out due to not fitting in that found himself ‘accepted’ finally when he was able to supply to younger students with alcohol and drugs. This is a lot of speculation here I’m well aware, but IMO a scenario like this occurred and he finally got the confidence to make a move on a college girl (not necessarily one of the victims or survivors) and was shocked to be rejected realising he only ‘fit in’ from a transactional point of view, rather than anyone truely liked him.

I also don’t think he was a criminal mastermind who has managed to escape leaving no evidence, IMO the fact that it was a very busy house (lots of DNA), he is likely not in the system and he either lives alone or with family and has little to no true friends has all played in his favour to allow him to slip under the radar.

I do unfortunately worry for this case though. Back to the Closs case… it’s my recollection she escaped and that’s how he was found/solved. I do fear what the outcome would’ve been if she didn’t escape.l which leads me to having less and less confidence LE will get to the bottom of this case without a significant tip off from someone known to this person. Hopefully they aren’t as unknown/loner as I’m thinking they might be.

All MOO and yes some dramatic speculation for those on here who don’t like that!

 

[rahod1]

If he’s a grievance collector he’s going to be angry. But he’s going to be enough of a narcissist and a loner that no one is going to get close enough to know him that well. I don’t think he will be on social media, profile posting at least, because he will not want to tip anyone off to his strong emotions. He wants to fly under the radar. Very few people may wonder about him but put on blinders and make excuses for his odd ways (family). This attack was planned but also was impulsive and took on great risk. Makes me wonder about a trigger. I suspect he’s a hunter, military, or at least was cruel to animals, but no one may have ever known about it. He had to have experimented with death beforehand to attempt to what he did that night.

I concur with most of this. My gut tells me this is a very proficient killer... victims in their beds notwithstanding. You simply don't dispatch of four humans using only a KNIFE (one being a 6ft?? 20 yr old male) without creating a chaotic *ruckus*......yet this is exactly what occurred. I don't subscribe to the notion that this was a personal vendetta with one or more of the victims...the odds of these students coming into contact with a killer this proficient seem very remote to me. More likely they were *targeted* to fulfill the killer's urge. I'm certain the FBI is taking a very close look at the previous incidents in Oregon and Washington over the last 2 years. MOO.