ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[gizmobtj]

It's hard to know how far in advance anyone could know there wouldn't be a party at that house, it seems like parties just inevitably happened there.

That's why I think observation was a key factor.

JMHO

Interesting points. Its possible, though, the killer wasn't lying in wait, watching the house for days and waiting and watching. I have no interest or desire to kill anyone, but if I had to and they were in house, it would make a lot of sense, just like the military does on a raid, to scope and surveil the target.

 

[layer]

If the two cases are connected, then K likely was not a specific target, because she moved into the house only in August.

How do you know that she didn't move into the house until August?

Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month lease that began on June 5.

 

[gizmobtj]

I’m curious as to how you came up with this - i.e. petty criminal record, heavy drinker, recreational drug use - as well as disordered thinking due to drug use. IMO, and I’ve been a psychiatric RN for many years, this is not the work of anyone who has disordered thinking. Personality disorder, yes — Antisocial - no conscience. If this person were high on drugs / alcohol, or had disordered thinking, FBI would have likely already identified him b/c there is no way evidence of his identity would not have been left behind.

In am, as someone who has also worked in mental health, of the same opinion and am going to have to concur. Most of my work was not forensic, but some of the early work was. A personality disorder, perhaps -- antisocial, borderline, obessive-compulsive pd, schizotypical, schizoid, schizotypical, histrionic and dependant thinking could give some good motives for murder, but substance abuse, while not incomptable with those, was not likely to be out of control on the night of the murders (there are exceptions of course where people have done some organized murders while on psyedelics).

But... all that said, we might not want to speculate on PDs because, in my opinion, plenty of people without PDs kill people for pretty less exotic reasons, and most people with PDs are more likely to be victims who do not harm a soul.

 

[NuttMegg]

IIRC, the witness wasn't interested in the girls (he has a family) and was not drunk himself.

He wasn't interested in the girls? But says a lot of guys were talking to them at the bar? And knew exactly who was seeing them home? How do we know he wasn't drunk? At the least he was closely following the actions of the girls, obsessively, imo.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Boyfriend of Idaho university student has had world ‘turned upside down’ by murder

Madison Mogen, 21, had been in a relationship with fellow Idaho university student Jake Schriger for around a year and the pair often posted loving photos of each other on their social media accounts

www.independent.co.uk

 

[rainwaterstill]

Apologies if this was posted earlier. Reposting in case someone missed it. The article was originally published Dec 23, 2022 by KTVB and was republished today, Dec. 26th 2022, by the Idaho Press newspaper on their site.

'We will solve this': Moscow police chief is confident the murder case will come to a close

"I'm very confident that we're going to solve this. We've heard the rumors: 'this case has gone cold,' this case has not gotten cold," Fry said.

www.idahopress.com

 

[PrincessIvy]

It appears that the third floor was the target. It appears that the second floor was killed because they were witnesses. 1st floor were not whitenesses so we’re not killed. Perhaps someone who was jealous and could see in the window just decided to act out in a fit of rage. I think that he just got lucky that the local LE were not staffed to handle such a case with absolute precision and integrity from the very beginning. Simple as that. He may get caught but it will be from luck or him making another mistake. He will not be caught from LE investigation tactics. How often have you heard.. police crack a 25 year old murder mystery. And the “Crack” had nothing to do with investigative tactics. It’s simply someone who knew who just decided to confess or overhear something decades later. IMHOO

 

[layer]

Maybe every one else has seen a link to his supposed, underaged drinking that specific night, how much and when he ate, just that so far I haven't.

Me either... Of course I wouldn't have, I avoid SM like the plague.

 

[RayVon]

JMO but I just can't believe every one except one (xk) died in their sleep. Just don't know how that's possible if the murders happened in only 2 rooms. Regarding coroner: It is possible her initial statement was just her opinion. Has LE ever corroborated her statement?

"likely"

 

[CGray123]

Can you please provide a source for Law Enforcement assessing that this perp was in the circle of acquaintances?

I‘m confused because I think Law Enforcement repeatedly has said they don’t know who this is or where this perp is.

Who in the victim’s circle drives a white Elantra?

<RSBM>

Police have said only that they have no suspect "in custody", and that they have not "identified" a suspect, not that they have no Person of Interest. They have also said that the killer is not among the victims' immediate circle of family and friends. I suggested that it could be someone they are merely acquainted with; a classmate or co-worker. It could be someone they met once at a party or in bar.

Here's what I have seen on the subject in the media:

"ABC News contributor and former FBI agent Brad Garrett told 'Good Morning America' on Monday that the killer or killers may have been familiar with the layout of the house. 'It tells me that someone came into the house with a comfort level -- that they probably knew their way around the house,' Garrett said.

Garrett said investigators should be broadening their search outside the victims' immediate circle of friends and family. 'You’re going to have to start spreading out to people they had just a casual relationship with,'"

Idaho College Murders: Police Say No Evidence Victim Had a Stalker - ABC News

If a woman believes she has a stalker, I am inclined to believe her. Police may not have found evidence for that, but I trust KG's instincts: she was stalked - probably by her killer.

 

[NuttMegg]

Me either... Of course I wouldn't have, I avoid SM like the plague.

These days I scan SM/YT for case news but I learn more facts here. Most of the rest have jumped the shark rumor-wise.

 

[Crosscntrymom]

Agree with the poster who said someone knows something. Someone noticed odd behavior, or an absence, or stained clothes, or cuts. Maybe a car being obsessively cleaned. Or a comment that seemed “off.” Clothes and shoes someone usually wears that are missing. Unexpected absence from work. A phone left unattended in someone’s room. A change in demeanor before and after. Browsing history. Following case updates. Buying bleach. Someone knows, hope they have the courage to come forward.

 

[justme101]

When I was growing up we had a serial rapist who managed to find and rape 30 women in a 2 year span. There were over 8,000 tips. it was on the news nightly. Everyone was in absolute terror, hyper vigilant but this one guy could drive around, also in a Hyundai, and find new victims every several weeks or so. He would drive around park in parking lots, watch apartment complexes or homes, and figure out how to break in, always in early morning, 4am or so, often would climb up on balconies to break in through an upper level door or window. while victim was sleeping, and rape them. Then look at other notorious killers. I'm not sure if rules here allow them to be named, but most of the ones I can think of targeted strangers in their homes. So all this guesswork that killer would have been familiar with the house, would have had a key code, isn't what usually happens. A killer who does it for compulsion, very brazen and the high risk is part of why they do it. Take the guy who murdered a journalist on borad his homemade submarine. She was doing an interview for a newspaper and he thought he could get away with it. So most of the guesswork about this case seems to attribute traits of rational normal people, and motives that don't rise to this level of horrendous crime. Especially if LE is looking for a white Hyundai and hasn't been located it suggest this is someone not close to the victims and could have first seen them either on social media or cursing the area. But remembering the serial rapist he only lived here a short while so was familiar with the area, but had never been inside any of the houses or apartments, and could find new ones every several weeks and undetected for 2 years. This was before most security cameras but still for the Moscow murders its only one crime so far and random stalker could have found and targeted the house in less than a week, got in his car and drove off out of state.

 

[Montecore1]

Hello newly registered here but been a fan of WS for a long time and have been following this thread, some really on point threads...good job sleuths

Could the infamous "white Elantra" be somewhat of a red herring from LE? Sure it was seen in the area and they would like to review all leads, However, maybe they know who the murderer is, need to build a stronger case and the seemingly urgency of wanting to speak with the Elantra driver is just not to make him think the investigation isn't hot on his trail?

 

[OldCop]

"Maddie Mogen's grieving dad says he is convinced the killer made a mistake at the scene that will lead to their capture, but admits he is surprised he is 'still waiting' for answers."

Idaho victim's dad convinced killer made mistake will lead to capture

Idaho victim Maddie Mogen's dad Ben Mogen says he is convinced the killer made a mistake at the scene that will lead to their capture, but admits he is surprised he is 'still waiting' for answers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The killer always makes a mistake. It’s up to LE to find it.

 

[z0mer]

When I was growing up we had a serial rapist who managed to find and rape 30 women in a 2 year span. There were over 8,000 tips. it was on the news nightly. Everyone was in absolute terror, hyper vigilant but this one guy could drive around, also in a Hyundai, and find new victims every several weeks or so. He would drive around park in parking lots, watch apartment complexes or homes, and figure out how to break in, always in early morning, 4am or so, often would climb up on balconies to break in through an upper level door or window. while victim was sleeping, and rape them. Then look at other notorious killers. I'm not sure if rules here allow them to be named, but most of the ones I can think of targeted strangers in their homes. So all this guesswork that killer would have been familiar with the house, would have had a key code, isn't what usually happens. A killer who does it for compulsion, very brazen and the high risk is part of why they do it. Take the guy who murdered a journalist on borad his homemade submarine. She was doing an interview for a newspaper and he thought he could get away with it. So most of the guesswork about this case seems to attribute traits of rational normal people, and motives that don't rise to this level of horrendous crime. Especially if LE is looking for a white Hyundai and hasn't been located it suggest this is someone not close to the victims and could have first seen them either on social media or cursing the area. But remembering the serial rapist he only lived here a short while so was familiar with the area, but had never been inside any of the houses or apartments, and could find new ones every several weeks and undetected for 2 years. This was before most security cameras but still for the Moscow murders its only one crime so far and random stalker could have found and targeted the house in less than a week, got in his car and drove off out of state.

Yeah, but entering a home with five cars in front and not knowing the way around the house, don't know a random stalker would do that. The killer already took a lot of risk, but this would even bring it to a whole new level.

 

[catacosmosis]

When I was growing up we had a serial rapist who managed to find and rape 30 women in a 2 year span. There were over 8,000 tips. it was on the news nightly. Everyone was in absolute terror, hyper vigilant but this one guy could drive around, also in a Hyundai, and find new victims every several weeks or so. He would drive around park in parking lots, watch apartment complexes or homes, and figure out how to break in, always in early morning, 4am or so, often would climb up on balconies to break in through an upper level door or window. while victim was sleeping, and rape them. Then look at other notorious killers. I'm not sure if rules here allow them to be named, but most of the ones I can think of targeted strangers in their homes. So all this guesswork that killer would have been familiar with the house, would have had a key code, isn't what usually happens. A killer who does it for compulsion, very brazen and the high risk is part of why they do it. Take the guy who murdered a journalist on borad his homemade submarine. She was doing an interview for a newspaper and he thought he could get away with it. So most of the guesswork about this case seems to attribute traits of rational normal people, and motives that don't rise to this level of horrendous crime. Especially if LE is looking for a white Hyundai and hasn't been located it suggest this is someone not close to the victims and could have first seen them either on social media or cursing the area. But remembering the serial rapist he only lived here a short while so was familiar with the area, but had never been inside any of the houses or apartments, and could find new ones every several weeks and undetected for 2 years. This was before most security cameras but still for the Moscow murders its only one crime so far and random stalker could have found and targeted the house in less than a week, got in his car and drove off out of state.

I was just pondering this. Some believe strongly that the person would have to have access to the house to be familiar with the inside of it but seem to forget that if a stalking or other situation by an unknown person is what is being dealt with here, I think people need to realize firstly that such behavior IS normal to this kind of criminal (again, IF that is the situation here). They may appear to behave "normally" because their minds allow them to do this despite KNOWING the crimes they have committed because they're NOT normal people. It's actually pretty easy for a psychopath/sociopath to cover up their secret lifestyles/crimes when it comes to the people they're around everyday. These are people who would have tools that allow them to be decently far away from the house, for example, and still be able to see inside, which brings me to the second thing - stalking and similar behavior would include things like using binoculars and/or zoom lenses on cameras to "peep," not to mention sneakily peeping into the windows of the house when no-one was home. If that's what is being dealt with here? The person could a hundred percent have been familiar with the interior of the house without ever having set foot inside it or "knowing" the victims.

 

[AngTxGal]

He wasn't interested in the girls? But says a lot of guys were talking to them at the bar? And knew exactly who was seeing them home? How do we know he wasn't drunk? At the least he was closely following the actions of the girls, obsessively, imo.

Agree 100%, NuttMegg!
This is an unknown avenue of interest to me as well.

IMO

 

[sunshineray]

It appears that the third floor was the target. It appears that the second floor was killed because they were witnesses. 1st floor were not whitenesses so we’re not killed. Perhaps someone who was jealous and could see in the window just decided to act out in a fit of rage. I think that he just got lucky that the local LE were not staffed to handle such a case with absolute precision and integrity from the very beginning. Simple as that. He may get caught but it will be from luck or him making another mistake. He will not be caught from LE investigation tactics. How often have you heard.. police crack a 25 year old murder mystery. And the “Crack” had nothing to do with investigative tactics. It’s simply someone who knew who just decided to confess or overhear something decades later. IMHOO

I respectfully disagree that LE investigations with bear no fruit in this case. This was written on December 7th, just over 3 weeks after the murders, LE had issued more yhan 50 search warrants. Now it's almost 3 weeks later, who knows were all that information gleaned may have led them. This is a complicated case not only because of multiple victims but because of the nature of the household, young kids, lots of friends over and milling about. Give LE time...it may take longer than people want but I believe LE will solve this massacre. AJMO


"Thompson said the Latah County Prosecutor’s Office is currently providing legal advice to law enforcement working the case, as well as obtaining search warrants. He said his office has obtained more than 50 search warrants on this investigation."

Moscow murders: Prosecutor cites importance of case integrity

Thompson discusses necessity of an unbiased jury pool regarding the Nov. 13 murders of four UI students

dnews.com

 

[Lillymac]

This is almost certainly true, IMO. If this killer was an amateur and anywhere in their circle (inner or outer tangents) he would be behind bars. Likewise, LE wouldn't be asking the public's help identifying what is essentially a ghost car at this point. Indeed, if anyone they knew, or anyone they knew knew someone who knew someone who drove that car, he would be behind bars by now.

This cat is a depraved, sadistic ghost, IMO, and BAU being on-scene within hours should tell all of us that. He ain't no friend. He ain't no aggrieved ex. He ain't no frat boy. He's almost certainly someone who stalked them online, picked up where they lived from location sharing (or stalked at work and followed home), and then picked this night because his urge to kill was becoming too much for him to control.

My opinion.

Along those same lines, I wonder if psychologists or psychiatrists in town have been interviewed as to patients that might fit this profile. I'm not sure if because of the doc patient confidentiality one would come forward or not. But, I don't think this was a spur of the moment event. JMO