ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[arielilane]

The killer always makes a mistake. It’s up to LE to find it.

Agreed. There is no such reasoning as the perfect crime, imo.

 

[jgarris]

I feel, IMO, that there have been more people randomly having news interviews/articles than I've seen in a typical case to absolve themselves. While this is not a typical case, I do believe the old saying "a hit dog will holler."

IMO - I think we've heard/read from killer already. Someone hungry for notoriety of their work without giving themselves up.

 

[femto]

The killer and or killers more than likely came in from 2nd floor balcony and he and or they being the killers assumed they were on the first floor of house when they are actually on the 2nd floor with the below area being the basement and or laundry room.

I don’t think the sight and sound of a squad car down the street deterred him. This is even assuming that your presumption about the le presence at the field happened at the same time as the murders.



JMO

I don't buy that. This would require the killer to have basically stumbled upon the house by chance. If he was going from the back and into the parking lot and didn't even bother going up the front, high chances are that he had observed or been in this house numerous times already. The alternative is him basically just walking past the trees, skipping numerous houses and then looking at this particular huge one and saying "wow, voila, a house I can attack'. Regardless of whether the knows the victims personally or not, imo he most definitely knew the house.

I agree with what you say except I think the whereabouts of E&X during the night and who they were with is crucial to solving this.

I feel like the suspect was on some kind of drug or very intoxicated and LUCKY!!!
This!!!!
JMO

Definitely not intoxicated. Drugs are possible but I seriously doubt it. The killer came in very prepared, patient and from what we know so far he left little evidence. Obviously the police might have something, buts since they still haven't caught him or have any big clue as to who the killer is, i'd argue he didn't leave all that much.

 

[Crosscntrymom]

What about someone who had a grudge against one of the family members of one of the victims or partners of one of the victims doing thus . One target and others self defense. Could have waited long n realised it's practically impossible to get the target isolated n alone so went into a houseful .

Was the death of an Idaho student in the early spring discussed here? Ruled accidental drowning, tragic. Perhaps someone played a role in the events leading to that student’s death and was afraid of being revealed? MOO complete conjecture.

 

[arielilane]

Idaho murders – latest: Ex-tenant reveals details about King Road house where four students were killed

49m

 

[Emerald1328]

I don't like that he remembers things so much later; the dude loves doing interviews, apparently! I don't know how to politely say a couple of things that are probably pertinent here, lol

I think I do understand why the cops might not take him as the best witness. I'll just put it that way. I wouldn't have everyone looking for the black car if the only source is him. Probably a red herring, imo. But maybe not! It's too hard to tell, darnit.

I believe he is what one would call in a literature class an “unreliable narrator” IMO.

 

[SoHelpMeGod]

The house on King Road: A look at the Moscow home where four U of I students were killed - East Idaho News

(Idaho Statesman) — At 1122 King Road in Moscow sits a gray six-bedroom, three-bathroom house that continues to be the source of significant national attention. Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month...

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It doesn't look or sound like joking, IMO. Also why take a surreptitious picture of the people behind you, one just waiting on his food order and the other someone tagging along with you? Odd how the tagging along guy doesn't, if he's the same guy friend with them in the street video when A was being discussed, just stand with them and chat while they're waiting on their food. Also odd why they ditched (that's my take on it from watching the Grub Truck video) this same friend and didn't say see ya, bye, we got a ride or offer him a ride.

I'm not one who thinks the above behaviors are no big deal. Considering these two young women wind up dead not long after, any interactions like these could be relevant and not just normal joking around. AJMO

Too bad we don't have the intervening conversation between the three (K&M&HG) from the surveillance camera to the Grub Hub. He may have told K that M said something to A, causing K to become upset with M. Viewing it that way the girls may have looked at it that he was trying to cause trouble between/for them. Couple that with M later pointing at him and saying "FU Mister", could indicate she was angry he told K about her conversation with A where she had to confess to K that she told A "Everything". So maybe she told K "let's call for a ride and ditch him."

JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

I still think the killer was acquainted with at least one or more of the victims, possibly knew or knew of everyone who lived in that house, and had some familiarity with the house. I believe he laid in wait and watched the house that night. From what vantage point and for how long, Idk — obviously. MOO.

If he was watching and waiting from the outside, he would’ve known that exactly 6 people were home at or near 2:00 am. If the killer was fueled by rage at at least one target, his murderous impulse must have reached no-going-back threshold for him to risk entering a house with 6 people. MOO.

I can see hiding in wait inside if the killer had one female target and was delusional enough to think he could commit one isolated murder without confronting or disturbing 5 other people and quietly slip away into the night. Otoh, if he’s waiting inside the house, he has no idea how many people are going to roll in. From the outside, he at least would’ve known if 4-5 stragglers were in tow needing a place to crash. After all, it’s a large multi-level party house on a busy college weekend. Does he enter a house with 10 college students not knowing if 3 of them are stone cold sober? MOO.

That’s more or less my general theory, and even that is on a wide spectrum. I’d need a spreadsheet or flow chart to even begin to sort out the various gradations of possibilities and eventualities, particularly as to the killer’s motive, state of mind, and extent and nature of relationship to victim (real or imagined?) All MOO and too exhausting to fully contemplate.

Beyond that, there’s the psychopath serial killer passing through town or a more local random psychopath. What theories am I overlooking?

No matter what, there’s definitely a cold-blooded killer on the loose. Not just anybody commits a quadruple homicide by stabbing.

All of the above is MOO.

IMO, I think the killer watched the house from the back and entered after they fell asleep, than he departed. There were no confrontations.

 

[fridaybaker]

Too bad we don't have the intervening conversation between the three (K&M&HG) from the surveillance camera to the Grub Hub. He may have told K that M said something to A, causing K to become upset with M. Viewing it that way the girls may have looked at it that he was trying to cause trouble between/for them. Couple that with M later pointing at him and saying "FU Mister", could indicate she was angry he told K about her conversation with A where she had to confess to K that she told A "Everything". So maybe she told K "let's call for a ride and ditch him."

JMO

My interpretation is that K and M were at least somewhat friendly with HG and that what looked/sounded like an “F.. you mister” at the food truck was directed toward the other guy there, not hoody guy. (I came to that conclusion after watching the slow, frame-by-frame playing of the video.)

Now, if they were, indeed, friendly with HG, and he was just sort of tagging along with them to see that they were safe as has been suggested by some, perhaps their leaving without saying goodbye was simply the being tipsy, tired, pre-occupied, etc.

Also, HG has been identified in various places as someone likely known to K and M and I am confident that that is who is in the video. If they do know him, it wouldn’t be likely, in my book, that they’d address him as “mister”. They’d likely just say “F-off”. The man who I think that is directed toward looks to be older -not in their crowd.

Don’t know. Just thinking.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Viewed from that perspective, we see a killer who, above all, planned to commit a silent crime , using knife and anatomical knowledge. Also was aware of the DNA issues.

Those are things professional killers contemplate (sources are various, I can add some). But other perps could think the same way.

using knife and anatomical knowledge. Also was aware of the DNA issues.

That could also fit a medical student.

JMO

 

[di anna]

using knife and anatomical knowledge. Also was aware of the DNA issues.

That could also fit a medical student.

JMO

What type of military programs does the UI offer if any?

 

[SophieRose]

I’m thinking about this tragedy even when I’m not focused on thinking about it. I know nothing beyond the few LE-provided facts that we all know, but I keep trying to figure it out. I can’t seem to help it. The cruelty is something I can’t look away from.

“If you see something, say something.”

I’ve heard this classic reminder in varying contexts so many times; I think many of us have. Often it comes from LE, though it was initially created by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) after 9/11 to show the importance of reporting suspicious activity.

I hear in the video press conferences and on-the-spot interviews with MPD personnel – despite the thousands of “tips” they have received – the continuing plea for information, anything at all. I can translate that to “if you saw something, say something.” But do you always know that’s what happened, that you saw something?

In October 1989 I was working with a theater company. Long evening rehearsals downtown, then driving home late, midnight, 1:00 a.m. After one of those rehearsals, I was waiting on a stoplight at a well-lit intersection. I noticed a man leaning casually against the wall of a brick building, hands in pockets, one leg bent at the knee. At first glance, he was attractive - blond hair, jeans, well-worn denim jacket. I looked again. On second glance, there was something wrong about him. Uneasiness suddenly overtook me. Instinctively I realized that he was waiting to be seen, waiting to be approached. Not by me, but by a person of his own choosing. I wanted the light to turn green. When it did, I looked back over my left shoulder one last time to check my silly reaction. But it held, he was all bad ju-ju, skin crawling. I floored it, drove home fast and never forgot him. It turned out to have been Jeffrey Dahmer. I recognized him instantly on July 25, 1991, during his first televised court appearance.

“If you see something, say something” would have meant what, in this instance? What had I seen? I could have called LE and said “Officer, I saw a guy loitering at the corner of Jackson and Chicago and something is not right about him.” Non-starter, IMO. LE likely would have been polite, but what actionable information would they have received from me? In hindsight, that day in July 1991, watching Jeffrey Dahmer in court, even I didn’t know what I possibly could have said to LE about some strange guy leaning against a wall. And he killed so many more more men in the interval.

The obvious difference is that at the time I saw Jeffrey Dahmer in October 1989, Milwaukee didn’t know he was five murders into his run, operating in plain sight around the city. Moscow, Idaho, does know that someone killed four people five weeks ago. Somewhere, someone, some few, some many, saw something. They may not trust that they did. They may have dismissed it as their own self-dramatizing, which is basically what I did. I wish Moscow LE could offer some guidance about what kinds of “something” they want to hear about, and some encouragement too, because it is not always easy to recognize that you’ve seen something and it is not always easy to trust in yourself that you really did see it, let alone pick up the phone and tell someone about it.

JMO

A tip that helped identify the serial killer, The Trailside Killer, back in the early 1980's.

'Do not hike alone': For 21 months, the Trailside Killer terrorized Bay Area's outdoors

Forty years ago, the Bay Area's hiking trails were emptied out and terrorized by an...

www.sfgate.com

David Joseph Carpenter – on parole after a second long prison term for crimes against women – wasn’t on California’s sex-offender registry or the state’s list of recently released prisoners given to Marin County investigators, due to a maddening series of bureaucratic snafus.

It took a woman who had an unsettling encounter with Carpenter on a cruise 26 years earlier to first point him out to authorities.

Snip

The first tip to single out Carpenter as a match from the police composite came from a 69-year-old woman in Ben Lomond who recognized him from a cruise she took with her daughter 26 years earlier. She remembered being disturbed as Carpenter put his hands on her 14-year-old daughter’s shoulders.

“I just didn’t like that guy,” Roberta Patterson told the Chronicle.

Several years earlier, Patterson had reported Carpenter as the potential Zodiac Killer based on a composite, but he was ruled out because he was in prison.

 

[NuttMegg]

What type of military programs does the UI offer if any?

Eligibility for Army ROTC | University of Idaho

Find out more about eligibility for the Army ROTC program if you are a high school student, active duty enlisted Army member, or a graduate student.

www.uidaho.edu

 

[Hexe]

Definitely not intoxicated. Drugs are possible but I seriously doubt it. The killer came in very prepared, patient and from what we know so far he left little evidence. Obviously the police might have something, buts since they still haven't caught him or have any big clue as to who the killer is, i'd argue he didn't leave all that much.

They might have no clue to who the killer is even if he left there a full set of prints and a big fat sample of DNA. Prints, DNA and other evidence do not come with the address of the oerpetrator attached, you need a person to match them with. If that person did not have a glaringly obvious motive and didn't have their prints and DNA in any database, that means the investigators have to dig through a lot of data to pinpoint them. So assuming that the perpetrator did not leave much evidence because there was no arrest yet and no official suspect is, IMO, a big mistake.

 

[drmrgrl]

The scream the neighbor may have heard was also on the bodycam of one of the police officers who ticketed the boys for underage drinking. If you listen you can clearly hear a woman say "Stop it. Stop". The LE who's cam picked up the scream was standing fairly near the apartment building the neighbor lives in. The audio seemed to come from over his left shoulder behind him, which would have put it very close to the neighbor around the time the neighbor claimed to have heard it. It did not seem to interest the policeman wearing the bodycam as he did not even turn to look in that direction and may have dismissed it as a party going on in one of the apartments. The murder house was behind and to his left.

The woman can be heard at the 23:43 mark, right after one of the boys says he is 19.

JMO

IMO, remember that three or four students were seen on the bodycam footage walking by. It was likely one or more of them fooling around on the walk.

 

[Ceska]

It doesn't look or sound like joking, IMO. Also why take a surreptitious picture of the people behind you, one just waiting on his food order and the other someone tagging along with you? Odd how the tagging along guy doesn't, if he's the same guy friend with them in the street video when A was being discussed, just stand with them and chat while they're waiting on their food. Also odd why they ditched (that's my take on it from watching the Grub Truck video) this same friend and didn't say see ya, bye, we got a ride or offer him a ride.

I'm not one who thinks the above behaviors are no big deal. Considering these two young women wind up dead not long after, any interactions like these could be relevant and not just normal joking around. AJMO

Good post. I agree. I found it very strange how the girls just totally kept on ignoring him.

 

[rsd1200]

My interpretation is that K and M were at least somewhat friendly with HG and that what looked/sounded like an “F.. you mister” at the food truck was directed toward the other guy there, not hoody guy. (I came to that conclusion after watching the slow, frame-by-frame playing of the video.)

Now, if they were, indeed, friendly with HG, and he was just sort of tagging along with them to see that they were safe as has been suggested by some, perhaps their leaving without saying goodbye was simply the being tipsy, tired, pre-occupied, etc.

Also, HG has been identified in various places as someone likely known to K and M and I am confident that that is who is in the video. If they do know him, it wouldn’t be likely, in my book, that they’d address him as “mister”. They’d likely just say “F-off”. The man who I think that is directed toward looks to be older -not in their crowd.

Don’t know. Just thinking.

I think they knew HG pretty well.

 

[drmrgrl]

NIce post!
I realized yesterday that there is a flaw in my thinking. I have been thinking that the killer could watch from the back of the house and see when the lights went out. This could help explain why the first floor roommates weren't involved, you can't clearly see the first floor from the back. The perp might not have even seen them enter or known that they were there.

The problem is... the window of the second floor bedroom believed to have been occupied by E&X wouldn't be visible from the back of the house. But from the front of the house, all six bedroom windows would be visible. But staking out the front of the house is much more problematic, the perp would be exposed to view by all the neighbors and any of their cameras. Standing out there would be highly suspicious. Hence the white Elantra?

I'm still processing the implications of this realization, I need to work it into my flow charts and spreadsheets.

IMO, I think Xs bedroom window can be seen from the side of the house-the side closest to the neighboring house with the ring camera.

 

[drmrgrl]

NIce post!
I realized yesterday that there is a flaw in my thinking. I have been thinking that the killer could watch from the back of the house and see when the lights went out. This could help explain why the first floor roommates weren't involved, you can't clearly see the first floor from the back. The perp might not have even seen them enter or known that they were there.

The problem is... the window of the second floor bedroom believed to have been occupied by E&X wouldn't be visible from the back of the house. But from the front of the house, all six bedroom windows would be visible. But staking out the front of the house is much more problematic, the perp would be exposed to view by all the neighbors and any of their cameras. Standing out there would be highly suspicious. Hence the white Elantra?

I'm still processing the implications of this realization, I need to work it into my flow charts and spreadsheets.

IMO, I think the white Elantra drove up King Rd from Taylor, turned left onto Queen Rd, drove up the hill on Queen passing by 1122 to see who was home, turned right onto Queen, up the hill and parked in the back parking lot and entered the home from the back on foot.