ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[Palinsmom]

Absolutely outstanding summary, Layer. And first, we'd have to know the suspect's alleles - deciding some alleles belong to a suspect is tricky. Even that would be a start, but explaining it to a jury, I'm not so sure. Further, the alleles tested would have to be absent in the victims.

But all of us share about 99.9% of our alleles. The identification of individuals lies in a very small number of well-studied markers (SNP's) in the DNA. The investigators would be looking for a needle in a haystack with transfer/touch DNA in this circumstance - finding anything in the immediate crime scene that is a complete chromosome (just one!) would really help. Very hard to find.

Would possible mitochondrial DNA be of any use?

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I believe the killers/killer was already in the house, and could have been very easily with the various ways to enter. The first two victims come home, fall asleep, which he waits for on account of the two housemates on 1st floor. Then the other two victims come home before he can exit from where he came in, the second floor sliding doors. Again, he waits till he hears silence, goes to exit, but may have woke one victim before the exit and out of recognition or fears of being stopped, he then has to eliminate one and then the other before his escape. The first floor housemates have no interest to his escaping because they hear or can see nothing. I’ve lied in a three floored house, and it’s extremely hard to hear anything of whatever is going on in the two upper floors and the same with the lower floor!

Especially with the super-odd elevation of this home. It’s as if the first floor was a garage at one time. If the two roomates are on the first floor in their rooms, they may have been using airpods while surfing the gram, etc. (could explain the inability to recall any overt or disruptive noises during the attack). Jmoo

 

[NuttMegg]

I don't think it would be that difficult to immediately incapacitate a sleeping person (slice their throat for example). By the time the sleeping partner stirs, do the same to them. Then move on to the next room. This is just an example, but I think the key is that the victims were asleep and therefore easy to attack, and it would be relatively quick to incapacitate/silence someone with a knife. MOO

Did we ever learn the size of M's bed? I still wonder at how the killer would have efficiently reached across a queen/king size bed without getting on top.That room seems so small. I can't picture him having the time (while the other victim could wake up) to walk all around the bed. But it could have been a double bed, of course.

Maybe that would explain why one victim's wounds were different, if he was reaching across it might have produced more of a slash. (Sorry for the visual)

 

[blackbeary]

Idaho students leave behind bright memories, big goals

“We can't go back and change the outcome. We really have to focus on just memorializing our own son,” Stacy Chapin said.

www.ktvb.com

Ethan's last day was spent with his siblings at his sister's dance.

 

[indicolite22]

Especially with the super-odd elevation of this home. It’s as if the first floor was a garage at one time. If the two roomates are on the first floor in their rooms, they may have been using airpods while surfing the gram, etc. (could explain the inability to recall any overt or disruptive noises during the attack). Jmoo

At 3-4am, (likely) alone in their rooms, chances are they were sleeping.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Can you elaborate on where you believe the entry and exit points are?

IMO given the layout of the house X's room is tucked off to the side. I feel the killer could enter and exit from front or back without needing to eliminate X and E in that bedroom. Unless they awoke and disturbed the killer, etc.

Precisely. JMOO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

At 3-4am, (likely) alone in their rooms, chances are they were sleeping.

Perhaps. Yet they were aware of the housemates approximate return to the home. They probably heard the four when they all communed in the kitchen (eating food truck grub and chatting) before heading to bed. Presumably - things quieted down and then went totally FUBAR. JMOO.

 

[Janeumayer]

New bar footage photo released.

New surveillance photo shows Idaho students in bar on night of murder

Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were in downtown Moscow hours before their deaths. The leaked surveillance photo was taken from the Corner Club bar at 1.32am.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Actually, outside the Americas (and actually even changing here in the US), more people choose a knife over a gun.

Outside the Americas, Knives Are Often the Weapon of Choice in Homicides

Apparently, a knife is far more deadly at close range, and quiet too: Knives ‘more dangerous’ at close range than guns | The Star

I've read of many organized crime figures, including mafia and cartel assassins, who principally kill with knives even though they also carry guns.

I'm not pointing the evidence in that direction, just wanting the facts to be facts.

Edited by me to fix a link to a post

Possibly. Yet I always believe the genuine reason guns are used less in most all other countries is simply a reflection of a lack of availability. In the UK, knife crime rules. That’s because GUNS are nearly non-existent. In America, we are saturated with them. Hence, their popularity when it comes to murder. Knives take a special skill, in a sense of nerve. It’s along the lines of strangling. Much more risk involved and much more personal (close range, eye-to-eye, etc.). Pulling a trigger takes no skill or talent, and removes the killer from the act through a sense of disassociation. The “projectile killed them” warped sense of reasoning. JMOO

 

[10ofRods]

In all reality when looking at what actually happened, this crime doesn’t look like college aged kid stuff. I think a lot of the “clues” and characters that have been discussed might actually just be clues about kid drama and that’s it.

IMO (could be wrong), I don’t see the killer as having many friends/present family (which eliminates most of the names floating around). And again not someone around 20. Late 20s at a minimum. I think the killers life consists of only doing messed up stuff or doing nothing fulfilling with not a lot in between.

I also think there is a small chance they were directed to do the act. Especially if there was a vehicle involved and more than one person.

Very much on the same page. I think this person is an "aged out" college student. Someone who likely pretends to be in grad school but in fact didn't finish undergrad. Pretends to have a scholarship or financial aid, but has some other revenue stream, likely including money from mom or dad who would prefer he stay at school. Is living in some form of student housing without university permission or knowledge (happens all the time). May have had some trouble with the law, but mostly has not been caught as his life of petty crime progresses to increasingly serious crime. I would not be surprised if he was eventually linked to other crimes in Moscow, perhaps going back to 2015. I think he's 25-28 years old and is known to be difficult, volatile and has brittle relationships.

I think this person may not have friends, but is living amongst people. I agree that the killer is mostly working out the gym, fantasizing, listening to music, eating other people's food, etc.

---------

I am SO enjoying everyone's posts today (this thread has been awesome from the beginning). I'm about to go out and run errands, but am spellbound by everyone's takes and will catch up later today!

 

[Elley Mae]

Idaho murders: 90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus as cops struggle to find vehicle

Idaho murders: 90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus as cops struggle to find vehicle

Police are seeking a white Hyundai Elantra spotted near a crime scene just steps away from the University of Idaho in connection with a quadruple homicide.

www.foxnews.com

 

[layer]

Idaho murders: 90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus as cops struggle to find vehicle

Idaho murders: 90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus as cops struggle to find vehicle

Police are seeking a white Hyundai Elantra spotted near a crime scene just steps away from the University of Idaho in connection with a quadruple homicide.

www.foxnews.com

Holy cow.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Moo, My personal theory came down to the recent LE interviews (a few days ago) with Snell from State of Idaho Police, and Moscow PD Chief.

Interview with State of Idaho Police Officer Snell

Police chief insists early Idaho investigations were proper

Moscow, Idaho, Police Chief James Fry told NewsNation he believes the initial hours of the high-profile investigation were handled properly.

www.newsnationnow.com

Interview with Moscow PD Police Chief Fry

Investigators dismiss University of Idaho professor as a person of interest in quadruple homicide case

Investigators continue to look into several leads, including a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra that could have been at the scene the night of the murders.

www.krem.com

A few notable things was the focus of their investigations are largely digital evidence gathering and getting the full context (moo, motive, events leading up to the killing) Although they’re still on the subject of tracing the vehicle whereabouts (evidence of its location preceding to the murder) this was not discuss in the interview. They are specifically asking “possible witnesses”who may have seen something unusual a day or two before the murder, they further reiterate their need for additional (social media) pictures and videos. For obvious reason, LE were not asking the general public for help, they’re asking those who “knew”. (Victims inner circle, friends and acquaintances or sm followers)

Moo, What happened in those two days leading up to the murder? They’re college students, more likely they partied together or separately on Friday night then on Saturday night E and X were at a frat party and K&M were at the bar. Moo, They were with people they’re acquainted with (as per video evidence with K&M and E and X reports their presence in the frat party gathering). They were surrounded by people they knew.

Moo, the most likely scenario for me is a different group within their inner circle, could be in a frat/sorority were in some sort of dispute with E and X or all four of them (hence 2 roommates were spared). An individual or two may have harbor hatred, envy or both imo, this was probably talked about among this other group (group of 2 to 4 people) and likely started off as a simple venting conversation. They are most likely another student/s who may have fantasized about something like this before and probably have an idea on how they wanted to kill people. Perhaps there was an inciting incident that caused them to react with violence. Moo, this conclusions were due to the fact that LE seems to suggest that there were people who knew about what happened as per their press release “Investigators believe someone has information that adds context to what occurred on the night of the murders and continue requesting additional pictures, video, and social media content.”

Moo, I’ve seen some people believe that the killer may have been a pro, however one does not need to be a pro to evade police for a few months and sometimes for years or forever. There are various cases were a killer successfully elude investigators due to not having enough evidence but it did catch up sooner or later.

Good points. My OWN SPECULATION: This killer is not a student (JMOO), and the killer specifically targeted the home/occupants. Sexual gratification (as twisted as it gets) is gained with such a physical annihilation (in full dominance, and victory). So far…in his mind, he’s still winning. I’m hoping LE is using a Vice grip to slowly tighten that noose while maintaining full knowledge, details, and visibility of their main suspect. JMOO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I think the point people are trying to make about hunters, butchers, chefs, etc. is that unlike a big group of people who hate blood and meat prep- remenber there are people who faint if they see a blood donation- the killer in this case was not perturbed by blood and was not avoiding it by using a different weapon or method, IMO. There are people who could not even attempt this. IMO

Thankfully. Most could not even attempt this. We wouldn’t sleep at night if this was a “soup du jour” type of thing. JMOO.

 

[layer]

Good points. This killer is not a student (JMOO), and the killer targeted the home/occupants. Sexual gratification (as twisted as it gets) is gained with such annihilation, full dominance, and victory. So far…he’s still winning. I’m hoping LE is using a Vice grip to slowly tighten that noise while maintaining knowledge and visibility of their main suspect. JMOO

So you think they have a main suspect? Just intuition or do you have reasons to think that? Reasons you can post on here?

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

No reward has been offered. That makes sense to me though. Why would one be offered if LE don't have all facts (i.e. DNA results, etc) and exhausted all leads yet?

I also don't think they've narrowed enough down to know exactly which direction to head, though I could be wrong and that's something they're just not letting be known yet.

Your final 10 words effectively hit the nail on the head. JMOO

 

[Sundog]

Idaho murders: 90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus as cops struggle to find vehicle

Idaho murders: 90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus as cops struggle to find vehicle

Police are seeking a white Hyundai Elantra spotted near a crime scene just steps away from the University of Idaho in connection with a quadruple homicide.

www.foxnews.com

So they have a list of the white Elantras whose owners registered them for on-campus parking for a four year period, along with the license plate numbers.
From the article -

Partially redacted public records obtained by Fox News Digital show 90 white Hyundai Elantras have been registered for campus parking between the start of the fall 2018 semester and December 2022.

In the "primary contact" field, many were left blank, however the document included plate numbers for all but one of the cars.

 

[NuttMegg]

The police chief said that young officer's, friends and family were at the scene. I'm assuming that means the siblings were called there , or were there because they had plans for the day with one of the siblings, or they were expected at work or some event, and didn't show up.
M00

i didn't think of that, it could have come from a sibling or EC's friend(s) at the scene. I still bet the other parents heard the story too.

 

[jjleroche]

Correct, he doesn't give the time or say whether it was a text or voice mail. I think the argument can be made that SG was talking about those last early morning calls, based on the context in which he says that. If anyone is interested I can expand on that.
Otherwise, carry on!

That'd be great if you could expand please Layer. Thank you

 

[Dotta]

I wonder about visual tips Police are asking for now.
As I understand the photos, videos, etc. can be sent anonymously, right?

But what, if a particular video/photo becomes evidence?
Must a person who sent it disclose identity?

Students might be afraid of parents' reaction/being involved in this terrible case/ being witnesses, etc.

I hope Police get what they are looking for.

JMO