ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[Spb1213]

I’m not proud of this, but during the college years, my friends and I hung with a particular fraternity. There was a small contingent of that fraternity that had gotten into some drug selling and, at times, “townies” (mid 20’s), would visit the house, hang, transact, etc. It was the worst kept secret and so many of just us hadn’t grown up enough to remove ourselves from it, but, at the same time, were scared of knowing too much.

I only bring this up because there is so much uncertainty surrounding the E and X timeline and LE’s pleas for info despite what other illicit activities may have been going on that night. Just wondering if there were interactions, visitors to the fraternity and 1122 during the night that may have put the victims in a vulnerable spot. Did anyone visit X and E when they returned home that evening? There is a good hour + of unaccounted time. Were K and M possible witnesses to something (Mr G said the killer didn’t have to go upstairs)?

 

[PrairieWind]

Yes mum & dad both explain the context of the Jack calls and dad recounts one of the messages in the interview

I missed that. What did they say about the context of the calls to Jack?

 

[SteveP]

Do you have a link for this? I posted a link earlier where the family said the "we have a dog together" communications were messages left for JD on 11/13 a.m.

Poster @layer just provided documentation in post immediately preceding your request.

 

[Caroline Lago]

Side note, as a big follower of the missing Jennifer Dulos case in CT where Fotis Dulos, the main suspect, committed suicide just prior to having to appear in court, and let's not forget Brian Laundrie; I am very concerned that the suspect in this case might also unalive himself (yes, I believe it's a single male, crime of passion) before police put him in custody.

 

[SteveP]

I have bumped the clip again & found time stamp for you 23 minutes into the clip

Steve ' one of the last messages.....'

I believe there is some wiggle room in the statement of SG, "one of the last messages", and I still believe, though I could well be wrong, that she was at home when she had the "we have a dog together" calls to JD, as recounted by her mother. Her sister, as @layer pointed out, had the record of the final phone calls, and never mentioned any texts at all. JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

Welcome to WS! IMO JMO I believe it's possible he stalked them earlier in the evening and then found a way in and waited in X's room, potentially. I believe he killed E&X first because E was the threat, not the purpose for his visit. JMO.

Yes. Agreed 100%

 

[10ofRods]

I am surprised that a cellular provider keeps voicemail left for someone else. Mine seems only to keep messages left on my phone from others.

 

[PrairieWind]

I am surprised that a cellular provider keeps voicemail left for someone else. Mine seems only to keep messages left on my phone from others.

That is confusing. But I'm not sure they do. But, the family could have gotten that information from Jack directly. I'm sure after they found the calls to him, the reached out to him immediately.

 

[The Observer]

President of fraternity where two victims spent final hours speaks out

Ethan Chapin was a member of Sigma Chi and attended a party at the frat house with his girlfriend Xana Kernodle just hours before they were killed

www.independent.co.uk

I was not sure if that (see above). They were all home BY 1:45. But in later updates and articles they don’t know WHEN they actually returned home. Apologies if I am misinterpreting. I thin LE has been less than clear on this b/c they don’t know. Moo.

LE knew the two survivors got home around 1am and I believe the two survivors were likely the ones that told LE the others came home around 1:45am. Later it was proven K and M actually arrived home about 10 minutes later than that. The timeframe for X and E has never changed. MOO.

 

[CityKid]

Poster @layer just provided documentation in post immediately preceding your request.

That transcript says "SG: One of her messages, one of her last messages, she reached out to Jack and said Jack, get back to me. And he didn't, and she goes, we share a dog together, which they did. She's like you need to reach out to me."
I interpreted "one of her last messages" as something that happened in the early morning hours of 11/13, rather than a message she sent to Jack several days earlier when they were both in CDA, but I'm fine with alternate interpretations since we have no LE confirmation that these messages were left. If these were voice messages sent around the time of her death, unless the killer faked the calls and faked her voice, I'm assuming she sent them.

 

[PrairieWind]

This has always been a head scratchier to me... "an unconscious person" "wont wake up". If they found any of the 4 victims after that brutal knife attack (I think you know why) I doubt they would be that terminology and I dont think they would attempt to wake them. In other cases of brutal murders when the 911 tapes are released these certainly arent the remarks of the caller, who obviously would have to be in full panic mode.

I think we have all wondered about the "unconscious" wording. But what about this. The roommates eventually come upstairs late morning. They don't see or hear anyone. They knock on X's door, no answer. They try the handle, it is unlocked but can't get in because someone is laying in front of the door. Either X or E has fallen right there. The roommates assume someone is just passed out drunk there. Its just a theory, but it would explain the call and why the roommates were not aware of the horror yet.

 

[Which_pancake]

I’m not proud of this, but during the college years, my friends and I hung with a particular fraternity. There was a small contingent of that fraternity that had gotten into some drug selling and, at times, “townies” (mid 20’s), would visit the house, hang, transact, etc. It was the worst kept secret and so many of just us hadn’t grown up enough to remove ourselves from it, but, at the same time, were scared of knowing too much.

I only bring this up because there is so much uncertainty surrounding the E and X timeline and LE’s pleas for info despite what other illicit activities may have been going on that night. Just wondering if there were interactions, visitors to the fraternity and 1122 during the night that may have put the victims in a vulnerable spot. Did anyone visit X and E when they returned home that evening? There is a good hour + of unaccounted time. Were K and M possible witnesses to something (Mr G said the killer didn’t have to go upstairs)?

Yes exactly. I have been in situations at college parties where friends of friends of friends and even complete strangers show up and bring in a dangerous element I never expected. I think a situation like this is very possible, where people with ill intent show up at a party. It doesn't mean the innocent party goers are involved with these people or their activities. They just might be too young or inexperienced to know exactly how to handle it. MOO

 

[JohnTate90210]

Not sure what theories have been tossed around so sorry for repeats.

X&E got home at 1:45. Would they have gone to kitchen to eat?

K&M got home at 1:56.They brought food. Had they eaten by time of murders? In kitchen or bedroom? Could they have encountered X&E in kitchen or even possibly brought them food, too, thus all arriving home in short period.

Could X&E have brought somebody home that wanted to get in touch with K’s ex? Could this explain multiple calls to his phone? <modsnip - no link, rumor>

A different theory. Killer planned to kill all six residents. Went through kitchen and up to third floor. Had to check both bedrooms. Between attack and creaking floors and phone calls he made enough noise to wake X&E. <modsnip - no link, rumor>

A variation. Killer attacked X&E first. Then heard calls upstairs and had to continue to that floor.

 

[z0mer]

This has always been a head scratchier to me... "an unconscious person" "wont wake up". If they found any of the 4 victims after that brutal knife attack (I think you know why) I doubt they would be that terminology and I dont think they would attempt to wake them. In other cases of brutal murders when the 911 tapes are released these certainly arent the remarks of the caller, who obviously would have to be in full panic mode.

Maybe the doors to the bedrooms were locked?

 

[formerlyme]

Am I the only one who keeps taking time away, I was so hopeful the larger the crime the more forensic evidence the faster some resolve. There is so little new information yet so much more speculation, I just can't keep up....

 

[10ofRods]

That is confusing. But I'm not sure they do. But, the family could have gotten that information from Jack directly. I'm sure after they found the calls to him, the reached out to him immediately.

In that case, the source is JD and not the sister using the phone records. I am sure LE had access to his phone, just never heard that Sister was in touch with JD regarding voicemail. Entirely possible.

 

[Mad Hettie]

This was not an assassination. Assassins don't use knives for a very good reason. If the target is a male and awake or wakes up during the attack the victim might fight back to the point he gains control of the assassins knife and turns it on him. If the target is a woman she might fight enough to get away. Assassins use a gun usually with a silencer and do a double tap to the head quietly and quickly.

Actually, outside the Americas (and actually even changing here in the US), more people choose a knife over a gun.

Outside the Americas, Knives Are Often the Weapon of Choice in Homicides

Apparently, a knife is far more deadly at close range, and quiet too: Knives ‘more dangerous’ at close range than guns | The Star

I've read of many organized crime figures, including mafia and cartel assassins, who principally kill with knives even though they also carry guns.

I'm not pointing the evidence in that direction, just wanting the facts to be facts.

Edited by me to fix a link to a post

 

[femto]

I think we would all benefit from looking at people with more nuance. Disorganized snd Organized are broad generalizations and people operate on continums in my experience and in my opinion. Often crime scenes have elements of both. To say an Organized killer would not take risk seems odd to me because all murder involves risk. An Organized killer would just plan for risks and a Disorganizdd, in my opinion, would be more random in their victim selection and attack. Some are in the middle, I believe and plan for some but not all elements.

Some also evolve. As Ted Bundy once said, “The first time you are careful. By the thirtieth time, you can't remember where you left the lug wrench.”

You're grossly overexaggerating what I said. I said that killers plan for risk, but a serial killer, whether organized or not, would pick the path with the least resistance. Which is why most serial killers target lonely women and even serial killers that are enormously risky in their behavior as the example I gave with ONS, do everything in their power to minimize said risk.

This situation is not the same as that of a serial killer. It's of a killer that invades a complex three stories house in a highly dangerous neighborhood (very active area late at night, very few escape routes, house is in very close distance to other buildings) armed with just a knife. What does this tell you? It tells to me that the killer has a specific grudge with these people to the point that it overrides his safety faculties that we as humans have them genetically instilled in our brains and behavior. Because of this it's very unlikely to me that a serial killer would take that kind of risk instead of attacking a house which a single victim.

And to be honest, Bundy has always been very disorganized and impulsive type of killer. It's not just something that came up later. He'd have been caught almost immediately if this was today. This Moscow, Idaho killer did his homework at the very least and it's obvious that albeit a risky attack, it was planned and not an impulsive attack that Bundy would often do.

 

[Dotta]

Could be!

In case of an argument boys/young male adults usually smack each other or get into a wild brawl.

But this??

I don't think any recent argument (among frat "brothers") led to this terrible tragedy.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes maybe. Or he's a great reassurance performer.

also, did you notice what prosecutor said in the early Fox interview ? iirc expediting DNA analysis was already on the cards/ being done.
( ie not the typical time-frames for the PD/state)

It was reported in MSM early on that there was a mobile FBI unit present at the scene that processes DNA and other items of evidence. I find it really hard to believe they don't have the majority of the DNA results yet.

JMO