ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[MsBetsy]

I have been trying to figure that out myself. There has to be a better way to describe these guys. It's a very specific mindset: killing for pleasure. There could be any number of underlying "justifications", but they all seem the same to me.

I strongly feel that if this guy isn't apprehended, he will eventually strike again. And he may have struck before...

I don't think there is such a term, although every serial killer has a first victim. I think we've already discussed cases where a serial killer attacked more than one person the first time. There weren't many.

Maybe the perp has the mentality of a serial killer. It's hard to say when we don't know who is is.

I hope we're not still wondering two years from now.

 

[CityKid]

I also thought she was going to move to Austin with a friend, yet she only mentions... the dog (that she "shared" with the ex).

She was going first, friend was going later. I've put up the NYT link to the story with the name of the friend and their plans a few times, and I think others have as well.

 

[Angie777]

"with an unusual degree of rage directed at KG"
The police have said no such thing.

The police are saying very little, but Kaylee's father, Steve Goncalves, has publicly said that Kaylee's injuries were "significantly more brutal" than those incurred by Maddie Mogen, and he provided some details. This raises questions about whether Kaylee was specifically targeted.

 

[CIA Team Member]

It pretty much was done right from the get go. I can't remember which day the FBI physically showed up, but they've been very involved. Chief Fry is a graduate of the FBI leadership academy or whatever they call it, knew people in the FBI. He was on vacation when the crime happened, came home immediately and I believe one of the first things he did was call the FBI. It's true that it looks like it was the ISP forensics team that collected the evidence, but I doubt the FBI forensics team would have done things much differently nor was there a reason to substitute them in for the ISP.

I am glad to see a seasoned WSer state that the crime you're referring to was eventually resolved because the killer was indeed known to the victim(s) in some way. I think this cannot be said enough. While I am on a little side trip looking at one-off and serial killers who used knives or who went into private houses, I believe it's possible for the murderer to be both a friend/acquaintance/member of the victims' broader community AND have the mentality of Thrill Killer OR a Vengeance Killer.

Why all four? Occam's razor might say "Because he knew all four." (As a starting proposition). The four share lifestyle and certain friendship bonds that the two survivors seem not to share.



It is disregard for the law, though - even if also adolescent behavior. I guess society is going to have to figure out whether the laws should be ignored for "adolescents" who are of drinking age, or who are living on their own without adult supervision. I am not of the school of thought that adolescence necessarily ends at age 25 (I believe there's no strong research on that - especially from outside the US/English-speaking world).

I say this because we teachers of this age group have to deal with this group. Should we just give them all passes on their dishonest or mildly to moderately antisocial behavior in the classroom too? Is the view that adolescents *need* to party, because the resources these partying students are spending from Moscow's LE budget is significant. I do wonder how locals ("townies") might feel. I know it impacts academics, but of course, that often seems to be everyone's least concern.

Things are very simple.
Problems are simple to resolve.
We humans tend to make things more difficult (noisy) then they really are. IMO

 

[layer]

I don't think there is such a term, although every serial killer has a first victim.

I just think there really should be a label for these guys.
It's the mindset, to me. If the only difference between a one-off and serial killer is that the perp got enough fulfillment from one crime that his urges were satiated for good, or if he was caught before he could practice his depraved interests again, it strikes me that it's still the exact same mindset.

Why can I hear Talking Heads' Psycho Killer playing in my mind?

 

[Zella]

The police are saying very little, but Kaylee's father, Steve Goncalves, has publicly said that Kaylee's injuries were "significantly more brutal" than those incurred by Maddie Mogen, and he provided some details. This raises questions about whether Kaylee was specifically targeted.

But at the end of the day, that comparison is meaningless without the context of the other 2 victims' wounds. Just because K's were worse than M's doesn't mean X and E's wounds weren't worse than K's. MOO

Wounds being worse also don't inherently mean someone was targeted. They could also mean she was awake and resisted more.

 

[stayclassy]

Was she really set to graduate in December? It seems odd that she didn't really seem to live there during her last semester. Could this be another personal detail she kept to herself?

Just bought a car, set to graduate early in December (as opposed to May/June?), going to travel in Europe in January, then set to move to Texas in February?

Something just hit me - reading this post. WHO was she going to travel Europe with? People this age are so very peer-oriented though she comes across strong and independent - her going alone seems out of the realm of possibility. That is a missing piece of the puzzle for sure in my mind.

 

[drmrgrl]

Good point.

With that said, I wonder what blood evidence they have found outside the bedrooms and throughout the house.

I'm make a pretty confident assumption that there was blood in other areas of the house that also could help paint the picture of the killer's movements.

All my opinion.

IMO, the second floor bathroom

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Random query. Is there any body of water near Moscow, ID large enough to dump a vehicle in and have it not be visible?

Eta:I see something near Coeur d'Alene (Harrison Slough) but don't know if it would be deep enough.

I think if perp went direction that is thought and what LE thought towards Pullman area, there is the Snake River. It is said to "the" deep river around (14-16ft).

Snake River Canyon in Twin Falls | See the Snake River in Idaho

The Perrine Bridge spans the Snake River Canyon nearly 500 feet above the river and is near the site of daredevil Evel Knievel’s unsuccessful 1974 jump across the canyon.

visitidaho.org

 

[layer]

The police are saying very little, but Kaylee's father, Steve Goncalves, has publicly said that Kaylee's injuries were "significantly more brutal" than those incurred by Maddie Mogen, and he provided some details. This raises questions about whether Kaylee was specifically targeted.

Not to me. K could have just required more effort to dispatch than M.
It would be hard to argue that anyone stabbed to death while sleeping in bed wasn't specifically targeted.

 

[renarde]

She was going first, friend was going later. I've put up the NYT link to the story with the name of the friend and their plans a few times, and I think others have as well.

This NYT article made it sound like Kaylee was going in June:

"Kaylee Goncalves, who was from Rathdrum, Idaho, had been set to graduate early in December and planned to move to Austin, Texas, with one of her close friends in June. The friend, Jordyn Quesnell, said Ms. Goncalves had secured a position with a marketing firm and was excited to explore more of the country."

Idaho Murders: What We Know

A man who was studying for a Ph.D. at a nearby university is charged in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho undergraduates. Many questions remain.

www.nytimes.com

<moo>

 

[Marie A]

I wonder if the rage and more extensive woulds towards kg was due to the fact she may have woke upbefore or during attack? So the killer had to inflict more wounds to silence and kill her then the others who were asleep. So Kg may not have been the target at all. She just may have been the one with opportunity to put up a fight.

Do we know if kg is the one with the defensive wounds? If so this theory makes sense.

IMHO I think KG was the first one killed so the knife was much sharper thereby it inflicted much more pronounced wounds.
If we are to believe those who have said this type of blade in this type of situation can dull quickly as I tend to believe….
KG may be the only one that didn’t have any defensive wounds at all.
Subsequent stabbings with a duller blade would have been different.
I personally don’t believe there was more perp rage towards anyone. I think this was an equal opportunity perp who was on a mission to kill with no preset agenda or preference.
He knew he wanted to kill coeds and that’s what he set out to do on that fateful night.
I’m still not convinced that he wasn’t considering several similar houses in that area and that he may have seen lights on in other options.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

The police are saying very little, but Kaylee's father, Steve Goncalves, has publicly said that Kaylee's injuries were "significantly more brutal" than those incurred by Maddie Mogen, and he provided some details. This raises questions about whether Kaylee was specifically targeted.

I ponder Kaylee was last, woke up and tried to escape

 

[Which_pancake]

new video update.

Very short, update on # of tips, they will be bringing in a cleaning crew tomorrow

 

[Ghostwheel]

Warning: a bit graphic on wounds

I am noting here that in regards to victim wounds, one person's "tear" could be another person's "gouge" and could in reality only be a cut deep enough for any internal tissue to expand once the skin and underlying muscle, etc no longer hold it in place. The internals of a body is just a pile of stuff without bones, muscles, ligaments, etc holding it all in place. The longer and deeper the cut, the more likely it will gape as if a gouge.

I have seen more and more what I call the game of telephone in articles. LE says dog in room, news says bedroom. Coroner says "tear", SG says "gouge". There was a recent one I don't recall where the news article added 3 adjectives to the LE statement that completly changed the meaning.

I'm not sure we have any real way at this time to determine who had the "worst" injuries or if they were deep cuts, slashes, tears( not a smooth cut), gouges(a channel cut) or something stranger. JMO, based on the experience I wish I didn't have.

 

[wary]

Do they even have another U of I campus? I've not seen any indication they have locations beyond Moscow, but I may be wrong. Even if they do, it's not a guarantee that they could complete their degrees there. I attended a university with 3 different campuses, and they offered completely different programs. It wasn't a given that you could just transfer to another one and complete your program seamlessly. MOO


I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to go back, but I am not sure the university would give them the option to do that. My understanding is his siblings were sophomores, so they have a couple of years ahead of them, not just a semester, to complete their degrees. I know the university is allowing students to finish this semester remotely and may well be okay with allowing that to continue into the spring if nobody is arrested. But I am not sure they'd allow someone to continue being remote-exclusive until 2025 or so. If they do want to transfer, it would be easier to do that now as sophomores or freshmen than it would be farther along in their college career. MOO

Just in general, I am curious if the murders are going to cause a sizeable number of students to transfer out or not.

According to Wikipedia, 11,000 of their total 12,000 students are at the Moscow campus.

University of Idaho - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

new video update.

Very short, update on # of tips, they will be bringing in a cleaning crew tomorrow

Over 19000 tips from the public. 6000 emails?

 

[PrairieWind]

Warning: a bit graphic on wounds

I am noting here that in regards to victim wounds, one person's "tear" could be another person's "gouge" and could in reality only be a cut deep enough for any internal tissue to expand once the skin and underlying muscle, etc no longer hold it in place. The internals of a body is just a pile of stuff without bones, muscles, ligaments, etc holding it all in place. The longer and deeper the cut, the more likely it will gape as if a gouge.

I have seen more and more what I call the game of telephone in articles. LE says dog in room, news says bedroom. Coroner says "tear", SG says "gouge". There was a recent one I don't recall where the news article added 3 adjectives to the LE statement that completly changed the meaning.

I'm not sure we have any real way to determine who had the "worst" injuries at this time or if they were deep cuts, slashes, tears( not a smooth cut), gouges(a channel cut) or something stranger. JMO, based on the experience I wish I didn't have.

Yes. A LOT of "telephone game" going on regarding this case. And it certainly isn't helping.

 

[rsd1200]

Sorry, but I guess I should know...

But is the 3rd guy from the right with the black hat on backwards, white shirt underneath, grey jacket and black pants... the same guy that was seen walking with them at the grub truck?

Was that known already to be the same person?

If not, then I'd be surprised.

 

[SMK777]

Apparently 1122 King Road is officially finished as a crime scene being investigated: Chief Fry says cleaning crews will go in tomorrow: