ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[ILOKAL]

I had a wacky idea. What if a strange kleptomaniac, EMT bag stealing person was helping with the search and found some clothing or boots of little DeOrr's from an animal attack, and decided to pocket it instead of telling any one. Yeah, I know, it's very unlikely, but more likely than a child just vanishing into thin air.

Do you mean that the only thing that keeps you from thinking DeOrr was taken by an animal (mountain lion) is because no clothing has been found?

 

[ILOKAL]

From TxJan1971's most awesome transcript, when Tricia asks Bowerman his opinion on a possible scenario:

"The clothing he was wearing, I really think we would have found an article of clothing had an animal taken him and uh so you know I’m perplexed right now. I’m struggling to uh figure this one out, but we’re going to continue searching and we’re going to continue interviewing and looking for any evidence and uh we’re hoping for a break."

So Bowerman is just as confused as we are. He said 18 dogs have searched and he's confident his "own two scent dogs that were in there initially, they should have found that child. They really should have."

I believe him. If Deorr was there, the dogs would have found him. So what happened?

Maybe DeOrr wasn't "in there" but was beyond "there".

 

[Cardinal47]

I guess its hard to say for sure but I got the impression SB feels DeOrr wondered off. Idk it sounded that way when he was asked if there was anything we could do to help. Seemed like he didn't really think so other then the basic stuff like if we do see him call the cops. But that's pretty standered stuff to say. Then that makes me think that's why this whole time they never bothered to clear up the time line. It would of been nice for us if they did but I don't think they thought it was important in finding DeOrr.

I wonder sometimes if this is a case of guilty persons or very bad PR on the part of the Sheriffs office.

A lot of things that have been discussed and debated should have been put out there through up to date press conferences.

This sheriff has admitted social media is all over this case and these young parents who have said hardly anything have allowed the Sheriff to be their spokesperson.

Finding out simple facts four months after the disappearance is disappointing to everybody praying for this baby's return.

 

[Cardinal47]

I will never understand why LE had to "learn" or "discover" during this investigation that the arrival date was Thursday. How does that kind of thing even happen?
I know what we think or wonder doesn't matter to LE and especially not to agencies like the FBI. But putting an honest real timeline out early on would have been so very crucial.:moo:

Oh I agree and once it was known everybody jumped on the reason being the parents lied. I don't think that's true at all.

I think the Sheriff assumed they arrived on Friday and once they slowed down and asked they were told the truth.

He just never brought the public up to date on the investigation.

Honestly I don't think he has a clue what happened to DeOrr.

He is searching on weekends, telling those asking to search 'no thanks'. Maybe some couple has him?

Something is terribly wrong.

MOO

 

[giagreen]

BBM

Speculation ahead ...

If DeOrr was abducted, knowing the *correct* time of arrival could help bring in tips. If someone saw something hinky or strange on Thursday evening, they might blow it off since as far as anyone knew, the family wasn't even there until Friday. So clearly, according to this imaginary witness of mine, there could be no connection between weirdo creepy stalker person and that little boy who went missing Friday. No, DeOrr wasn't taken on Thursday, but that doesn't mean a predator wasn't lurking somewhere that evening or doing something strange.

I don't think it matters what DK and JM were off doing (fishing, finding minnows, exploring, whatever), and I don't think it matters all that much whether GGPA sneezed or closed his eyes or fell asleep in the grand scheme of things. The parents weren't there with DeOrr for a brief period, and GGPa wasn't watching him for whatever reason, and that's what we need to know as far as that goes (moo). But it absolutely does matter -- imo -- when they arrived and it absolutely did matter -- imo -- to the public if LE wanted tips from the public.

That's a lot of speculation and what-ifs. And tbh, I think that stranger abduction is about the least likely scenario -- but on this point, I believe very much that their time of arrival should have been corrected immediately. I can't help but wonder why LE didn't do that. By their own admission, they are not ruling out a stranger abduction, so why not correct the timeline and maybe get more tips? *

*Although as I say that, I wonder if it had something to do with them being snowed under a blizzard of nonsensical tips ...

Speculation.... Pshh I'm not reading any further...jk lol

I don't know why LE felt it wasn't important to clear up. I think it was probably a mix of everything. At first it was probably a find the baby first answer questions later. That turned into fallowing a bunch of leads from sm that turned out to be gossip.
The thing is tho who's fault is it? Was it LE just not caring what we know or was it the parents, ggp, and IR lying to LE? Guess that's what my concern was more about. If it was LE well they have their reasons if not then maybe its a really good thing SB went to that conference for missing and exploited kids.
If it was the parents then it sure is odd he's on live radio saying he believes the family and that they've been 100% cooperative. If LE didn't put it out there then that shouldn't cast doubt on the parents. Because I mean in a time like that its understandable they'd be believing LE were doing what's best. As far as we know they were asked not to say anything by LE. I mean if it was me I'd find comfort knowing LE was on it and leave it in there hands and help all I could by being coopertive.

 

[Onebest]

I wonder sometimes if this is a case of guilty persons or very bad PR on the part of the Sheriffs office.

A lot of things that have been discussed and debated should have been put out there through up to date press conferences.

This sheriff has admitted social media is all over this case and these young parents who have said hardly anything have allowed the Sheriff to be their spokesperson.

Finding out simple facts four months after the disappearance is disappointing to everybody praying for this baby's return.

I agree that PR could have been managed better. In bigger counties they most likely have a PR person or two or three to support with media. In Lemhi County it appears to be SB. I also doesn't appear its something he is highly experienced in as far as flow planning. He does a good job relating when he does talk. I would imagine this might be one of his biggest challenges as a Sheriff. This is an interesting article. Prob been posted before but relevant to this conversation. JMO

http://www.postregister.com/article...23/some-law-enforcement-utilize-social-media#

Sheriff Lynn Bowerman has 30 employees. When 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz, went missing in July in the Salmon-Challis National Forest, his office was pushed to the limit. His staff was overwhelmed, partially by their efforts to search, and almost equally by their attempts to quell the social media tips and comments that flooded in.

 

[giagreen]

I wonder sometimes if this is a case of guilty persons or very bad PR on the part of the Sheriffs office.

A lot of things that have been discussed and debated should have been put out there through up to date press conferences.

This sheriff has admitted social media is all over this case and these young parents who have said hardly anything have allowed the Sheriff to be their spokesperson.

Finding out simple facts four months after the disappearance is disappointing to everybody praying for this baby's return.

I've wondered that as well. I've thought maybe LE is giving the parents false security. But from everything we have here I don't think the parents or anyone had time to hurt DeOrr and cover it up while keeping it from others that were there. I've thought about maybe an accident that they covered up but I don't believe four people could pull that lie off together especially considering the fact that IR and the parents didn't know each other. So I'm left to believe LE that they are good with them.

The way its described by ggp makes me feel a mountain lion got him. Seriously. I know a lot of people don't think so but I totally think its possible. They usually break their preys neck when they attack by going for the lower back of the neck. As little as DeOrr its possible.
Its also possible he wondered off and from there who knows what happen.

Or maybe someone did take him. Learning about the couple at the other camp makes me wanna know did their kids have anyone with them? Or even the fact they were up there and nobody new. Could there have been another camper that'd obviously dip the moment he snatched up DeOrr.
It only let's us know now that it's possible for other people to have in the area.

 

[4senthia]

SB just did an interview for Tricia.
Obviously he does care what info the public has.
If he didn't he wouldn't have done an interview.
I don't "do" social media, so I understand the frustration he has relayed concerning rumors.
But I'd also have to say that seemingly changing facts and timelines only serve to fuel speculation.
Hoping they find DeOrr.
all just my opinion after listening to the interview

 

[giagreen]

Geez, he said YES because he was thinking about pizza. Unless he said "yes, he was just with me and GGP when he wandered off" in a complete sentence, the YES could be for anything else! /sarcasm

HE NEVER SAID THE WORD YES. This is totally how gossip gets started and twisted and dragged around. The dude never said the word yes.

 

[wondering25]

I agree that PR could have been managed better. In bigger counties they most likely have a PR person or two or three to support with media. In Lemhi County it appears to be SB. I also doesn't appear its something he is highly experienced in as far as flow planning. He does a good job relating when he does talk. I would imagine this might be one of his biggest challenges as a Sheriff. This is an interesting article. Prob been posted before but relevant to this conversation. JMO

http://www.postregister.com/article...23/some-law-enforcement-utilize-social-media#

Sheriff Lynn Bowerman has 30 employees. When 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz, went missing in July in the Salmon-Challis National Forest, his office was pushed to the limit. His staff was overwhelmed, partially by their efforts to search, and almost equally by their attempts to quell the social media tips and comments that flooded in.

And therein lies the biggest problem of all. They were overwhelmed yet they waited 3 weeks to call in the FBI? They were not competent or adequately staffed to carry out a thorough and comprehensive investigation, IMO. Mistakes were made from the beginning.. and those mistakes, for example, ( not treating this as a possible abduction.. which is what the parents kept insisting) along with whatever else the sheriff had in mind.

They had too many social media tips? Too bad! How can you possibly know what is real and what isnt? That is their job! Sounds to me like they dont like the added burden.. oh well. Years back we had informants and the "word on the street".. now we have social media.. the "word on the information highway".

Bungled from day one., JMO. Search and think outside the box ( or campsite). After 3 days of no scent, no clothes, no blood, no NOTHING think that maybe the parents feeling he was abducted wasnt a fantasy. MOO
Anything i write is just my opinion

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Has anyone brought up the topic of septic tanks? Do they use those for all the homes and businesses in the area? Were they adequately checked?

 

[iluvmua]

Has anyone brought up the topic of septic tanks? Do they use those for all the homes and businesses in the area? Were they adequately checked?

yes, they were.

 

[katydid23]

HE NEVER SAID THE WORD YES. This is totally how gossip gets started and twisted and dragged around. The dude never said the word yes.

He said YEAH, which means YES. He nodded and said ' uh huh', which also means YES. He answered affirmatively. He indicated that he was in agreement with the three questions a tv news reporter asked him.

If someone nods and says YEAH, is it twisted gossip to say they said 'yes' ?

 

[EllieBee]

HE NEVER SAID THE WORD YES. This is totally how gossip gets started and twisted and dragged around. The dude never said the word yes.

He answered in the affirmative.

Yep, yeah, um humm, sure, roger, yabetcha, tru dat are all affirmative responses.

All are ways of saying "yes" without using the word "yes".

ETA:not saying IR used all of those terms. But all are commonly used.

 

[giagreen]

He said YEAH, which means YES. He nodded and said ' uh huh', which also means YES. He answered affirmatively. He indicated that he was in agreement with the three questions a tv news reporter asked him.

If someone nods and says YEAH, is it twisted gossip to say they said 'yes' ?

He didn't say YES so YES that'd be twisting things that lead to gossip that could potentially ruin an innocent man's life.
It does matter...why? Because to me the way he said umm hmmm with his eyes shut reminds me of someone who is half asleep. For all we know he took sleeping pills or something and was out of it. That's how I took it.
So going around and putting words in his mouth is not only twisting the truth to fit an agenda its also wrong to do to somebody who very well might be innocent.

<modsnip>

 

[katydid23]

He didn't say YES so YES that'd be twisting things that lead to gossip that could potentially ruin an innocent man's life.
It does matter...why? Because to me the way he said umm hmmm with his eyes shut reminds me of someone who is half asleep. For all we know he took sleeping pills or something and was out of it. That's how I took it.
So going around and putting words in his mouth is not only twisting the truth to fit an agenda its also wrong to do to somebody who very well might be innocent.

I mean this is after all a victim friendly site where people like facts and not rumors. There's always room over on mydeathspace for that crap.

He did not seem like he was asleep to me at all. His eyes were wide open when he asked if the reporter had spoken to GGP yet.

He did not just mumble umumm with closed eyes. He answered three questions affirmatively. It is not 'gossip' to say that.

It is not putting words in someones mouth if they say 'YEAH' and you say they said 'Yes.' It is a slight variation on the same answer, imo.

I am not accusing him of anything other than being untruthful in that tv interview. And it is not 'gossip' or 'twisted 'for me to say that, imo. He was being asked about his eye witness information about a missing child, by a tv news reporter. Is it really that much to ask for him to be truthful and accurate. Why give him a pass for putting out incorrect info?

 

[TeaTime]

IR looked like he had been awakened from a deep sleep in his underwear, the sun light was making him squint and he was still half asleep while trying to answer ambush questions on camera.

RPTR: "He just disappeared?"

IR: "As far as I know."

"Did you talked to Grandpa?"

Being "there" to him may be being at the campground and 'with GP' is literal, he just didn't mention all the people he was with.

 

[Cardinal47]

This all just makes my head spin. We keep going in circles.

 

[giagreen]

I am not accusing him of anything other than being untruthful in that tv interview. And it is not 'gossip' or 'twisted 'for me to say that, imo. He was being asked about his eye witness information about a missing child, by a tv news reporter. Is it really that much to ask for him to be truthful and accurate. Why give him a pass for putting incorrect info?

The reporter sent him Facebook messages that he never responded to. And that was his third trip to his house.
It wasn't a TV interview. I think it was wrong. At that point I expect nothing from him to be honest.

You can think he's guilty. I sure have at times. My only point is that if I hadn't seen the video myself and you said he said yes to this in a TV interview I'd be like omg he did it. But seeing it with my own eyes its way different then that to me. And I've seen things like that get so twisted and out of control that it really could ruin someone's life. While DeOrr still isn't found. And that to me would be the biggest travesty of all.

The killing fields down in Texas is one case I can think of where a mans life was ruined by things like that. That was even before the power of sm. He ended up killing him self over it if I remember right.

I'm sorry. Don't really want to argue about it. Its just to me its so important to keep it all clear. These are real people with real life's.

 

[Arnie M]

.

Nate the TV guy is responsible for a lot of the disinformation out there and on this forum
Then it gets worse when he goes on Nancy Grace and the untruths spread like wildfire. That needs to be pointed out , it becomes tiring when the sheriff keeps getting thrown under the bus because he says something different than what Nate said
Then too many people hang on every murmur IR made while he was half asleep and not dressed with Nate banging on his door early on a Monday morning.

How is this for messing up the facts:
Nancy Grace interviewer :
--- they know he had a toy truck in his pocket ...
Nate:
--- no sight of his toy truck , no sight of his toy monkey , of his cup , of his blanket
--- those are three items his parents say he always takes with him wherever he goes
--- those were left behind at the campsite
--- no sign of any of those things

go to 3:30 in the video to hear it ... also later he says ... they had set up the campground that Friday afternoon


[video=youtube;yIA0NvCxrRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIA0NvCxrRE[/video].