ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[EllieBee]

I'm so sorry, I just looked for it and I must be thinking of Scott Lancaster, who died in Idaho *Springs*, not Idaho Falls. This is what I get for staying up reading about Mountain Lions when I should be sleeping. :blush:

Raaahrr. And sweet dreams! :loveyou:

 

[EllieBee]

However, in this article they found paw prints and mountain lion scat where in Deorr's case the searchers did not find any evidence of wild animals.

I just do not think the little guy could have walked outside the search area wearing those oversized boots. JMO. Those boots were definately a hindrance to him, slowing him down. The boots were never found, so that tells me the boots and child are together.

I believe this, too. Boots and child, if ever found, will be found together.

 

[neesaki]

It was a stuffed, taxidermy mountain lion. He was in the same position, same place, the follwing day.

Are you serious? LOL

 

[giagreen]

I live in grizzly bear country and live in fear of them. I won't hike during certain times of the year. That said, they seldom attack without cause - such as protecting their cubs or if you are near their food source. When they do attack, it can be deadly. But it would be extremely rare that they would kill without a trace. It would be a messy scene. They do take their kill to a hidden food cache.

It is true they can attack as a predator, not just as a cub and food protector. But it would be if they didn't have another more preferred food source. I can easily rule out bear attack in Deorr's case.

Yeah. We have never had grizzly bears here and from what I hear that's a great thing. I think the diff is grizzly bears are not scared of us. Black bears usually are.
But we do have lots of black bears. Its not uncommon to see one running around. We use to go camping every year on bear island and they never bothered us as long as we kept our food stored properly. Its a given just don't mess with their baby bears or it'd be a different story. Completely understandable. Idk I always thought they were cute. And bears don't care. You can hear them coming a mile away. I've just always been thankful we don't have grizzly bears. They are not as nice. But yeah I don't think a bear would of took him because bears make noise. Ml on the other hand....they stalk in silence.

 

[neesaki]

I'm so sorry, I just looked for it and I must be thinking of Scott Lancaster, who died in Idaho *Springs*, not Idaho Falls. This is what I get for staying up reading about Mountain Lions when I should be sleeping. :blush:

No worries, thanks for the info. I do think I remember reading about that case now that I saw the name. I found information on Scott's case listed here among others between 1991 and 2000, including the case of Jaryd Atedero. All too sad for words. Thankfully all of the cases here didn't end up as fatalities. http://www.angelfire.com/co/KlueLass/lions/attacks2.htm

 

[KYPastTracker]

Yeah. We have never had grizzly bears here and from what I hear that's a great thing. I think the diff is grizzly bears are not scared of us. Black bears usually are.
But we do have lots of black bears. Its not uncommon to see one running around. We use to go camping every year on bear island and they never bothered us as long as we kept our food stored properly. Its a given just don't mess with their baby bears or it'd be a different story. Completely understandable. Idk I always thought they were cute. And bears don't care. You can hear them coming a mile away. I've just always been thankful we don't have grizzly bears. They are not as nice. But yeah I don't think a bear would of took him because bears make noise. Ml on the other hand....they stalk in silence.

I don't think a bear took little Deorr, but I don't necessarily think bears are always noisy either. We were at Cade's Cove in the Smokies and a guy came walking real fast out of a field. We asked him if anything was wrong. He said he had been in the field looking back towards the forest when a couple came walking out on a trail that lead from the woods. As he watched, a bear reared up to its hind feet from out of the blackberry bushes right behind them. The couple never knew the bear was there right beside the path. They kept on walking and never saw it, but it evidently scared the guy who observed it. So I guess bears can be quiet sometimes, too. Of course, the bear didn't attack them. Perhaps that would make a difference in any noise it might make. I agree that a bear taking the toddler is unlikely. IMO.

 

[Cardinal47]

Somebody said it was quite noisey near the creek. I wonder HOW noisey?

Did they have to shout to be heard? Could you hear a vehicle? Shouting?

Or was it just a faint water flowing sound?

 

[Yvettea]

Since it's after midnight I will attempt to answer your question. But remember, yours is a question could only have been answered correctly on that day and at that time.

I have seen mountain streams as deep as a foot or a foot and a half flowing relatively swiftly and making little noise because they were flowing over smooth pebbles and without logs and rocks. The sheriff said there was a lot of debris, logs and rocks plus areas of the edge that created overhangs so that would produce more noise. But unless the water is relatively deep and rapidly moving over and under lots of debris you usually will not hear a roaring sound. In other words you would not have to shout to be heard.

 

[KYPastTracker]

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_b2f1d01f-f76d-5241-9e1b-c369e0078e2f.html

I think this was just posted several hours ago. Just states nothing found in latest search.

ETA: It does say something about the family leaving carved pumpkins for Deorr Jr "At the rock where he was last seen." I don't remember hearing about a rock before. Is that new?

 

[KYPastTracker]

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_b2f1d01f-f76d-5241-9e1b-c369e0078e2f.html

I think this was just posted several hours ago. Just states nothing found in latest search.

ETA: It does say something about the family leaving carved pumpkins for Deorr Jr "At the rock where he was last seen." I don't remember hearing about a rock before. Is that new?

I have quoted my own post here. IF this is correct and not just bad reporting, I found a picture on the net of the pumpkins and the big rock. It is right next to the picnic table at the campsite. It appears from the picture to be out in the open and not that close to the embankment. If this was the last place little Deorr was seen by GGP, how did anyone or anything grab him from that spot without drawing GGP's attention? Unless the toddler just wandered away before GGP looked back towards the Rock? AAARRGGHHH. Who knows.

 

[giagreen]

I don't think a bear took little Deorr, but I don't necessarily think bears are always noisy either. We were at Cade's Cove in the Smokies and a guy came walking real fast out of a field. We asked him if anything was wrong. He said he had been in the field looking back towards the forest when a couple came walking out on a trail that lead from the woods. As he watched, a bear reared up to its hind feet from out of the blackberry bushes right behind them. The couple never knew the bear was there right beside the path. They kept on walking and never saw it, but it evidently scared the guy who observed it. So I guess bears can be quiet sometimes, too. Of course, the bear didn't attack them. Perhaps that would make a difference in any noise it might make. I agree that a bear taking the toddler is unlikely. IMO.

That's so scary!! I wonder if he ever told the couple about that.
That's kinda what I mean tho. That bear could of killed em both but didn't. He was prob mad cause they were messin with his berries. They left and so he didn't go any further.

 

[Rayemonde]

I have quoted my own post here. IF this is correct and not just bad reporting, I found a picture on the net of the pumpkins and the big rock. It is right next to the picnic table at the campsite. It appears from the picture to be out in the open and not that close to the embankment. If this was the last place little Deorr was seen by GGP, how did anyone or anything grab him from that spot without drawing GGP's attention? Unless the toddler just wandered away before GGP looked back towards the Rock? AAARRGGHHH. Who knows.

:gaah:

 

[MBK]

I have quoted my own post here. IF this is correct and not just bad reporting, I found a picture on the net of the pumpkins and the big rock. It is right next to the picnic table at the campsite. It appears from the picture to be out in the open and not that close to the embankment. If this was the last place little Deorr was seen by GGP, how did anyone or anything grab him from that spot without drawing GGP's attention? Unless the toddler just wandered away before GGP looked back towards the Rock? AAARRGGHHH. Who knows.

I, for one, would really like to have more details on that last sighting . . . who saw him, what was he doing, was he playing on top of the rock? Cute imagery on the pumpkins, with the mummy and all.

 

[renarde]

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_b2f1d01f-f76d-5241-9e1b-c369e0078e2f.html

I think this was just posted several hours ago. Just states nothing found in latest search.

ETA: It does say something about the family leaving carved pumpkins for Deorr Jr "At the rock where he was last seen." I don't remember hearing about a rock before. Is that new?

The article also mentions that two of the three SAR volunteers scheduled to help could not make it to the search.

 

[haven71]

The article also mentions that two of the three SAR volunteers scheduled to help could not make it to the search.

That's disappointing. I wonder how far in advance this recent search was planned?

 

[desert-blue]

I kind of get the feeling this case is going cold... that being said, I'm curious about the status of the four POIs. Is it normal for a case to go cold and leave POIs kind of in limbo? Will they ever be cleared or will the case just kind of fade away, either forever or until new evidence is found that might indicate what happened (animal attack, drowning, foul play, or inconclusive)? I'm not familiar with that many missing children cases... this case grabbed my attention because it's in my home state. It's difficult for me to make sense of why they can't be ruled out and what that means for the future of the case, if anything. Maybe this is just it and what we know now is all we'll ever know... it all seems so vague and secretive. There are so many unanswered questions that it's hard for me to just move on and accept that we may never know anything more than what we know right now. I know, patience is a virtue, but this is so frustrating to me.... (as I'm sure it is to everyone close to the case as well...) :-(

 

[haven71]

I feel the same way. It's a very sad thing (sad of course anyway) to never find out what happened to little Deorr.

I'm not so sure what they do in missing children's cases either, as this is the first case I've followed. I've watched true crime shows in the past and they're always interviewing a detective who worked the case years and years ago, but it's been reopened. They comb through it, seeing if they missed anything, and re-interview POI's and things like that. From what SB said about the polygraph results, I think they were inconclusive by one or more of the POI's. JMO. As far as formally declaring them innocent, I doubt they do that but I could be wrong. It might end with a statement saying that the investigation was inconclusive.

I'm sure there are others here who know of similar cases on here that can help answer our questions about it.

 

[Rayemonde]

I kind of get the feeling this case is going cold... that being said, I'm curious about the status of the four POIs. Is it normal for a case to go cold and leave POIs kind of in limbo? Will they ever be cleared or will the case just kind of fade away, either forever or until new evidence is found that might indicate what happened (animal attack, drowning, foul play, or inconclusive)? I'm not familiar with that many missing children cases... this case grabbed my attention because it's in my home state. It's difficult for me to make sense of why they can't be ruled out and what that means for the future of the case, if anything. Maybe this is just it and what we know now is all we'll ever know... it all seems so vague and secretive. There are so many unanswered questions that it's hard for me to just move on and accept that we may never know anything more than what we know right now. I know, patience is a virtue, but this is so frustrating to me.... (as I'm sure it is to everyone close to the case as well...) :-(

LE have never never even implied that the 4 POI are guilty of any wrongdoing, let alone named them as suspects or anything else. So no, they won't "clear" them. That's how innocent lives can get ruined forever by out-of-control speculation and accusations.

The POI can't be ruled out because no one knows what happened that day. There's no evidence either way.

 

[giagreen]

Not that I think a non-human animal had anything to do with Deorr going missing, but yes; bears will kill you. And as evidenced by my avatar pic, I ADORE bears. But they are wild animals and will behave as such. They are not cutey-pie pet material.


http://www.adn.com/article/lone-predatory-black-bears-responsible-most-human-attacks

Obviously bears can and will kill people. But for the most part they are not predators. They dont typical seek out to kill people. They don't stalk people. They make noise. They don't care if anyone sees them. That's not what I was saying at all. But they are still cute....doesn't mean I wanna go snuggle one. Lol

 

[Lilibet]

I feel the same way. It's a very sad thing (sad of course anyway) to never find out what happened to little Deorr.

I'm not so sure what they do in missing children's cases either, as this is the first case I've followed. I've watched true crime shows in the past and they're always interviewing a detective who worked the case years and years ago, but it's been reopened. They comb through it, seeing if they missed anything, and re-interview POI's and things like that. From what SB said about the polygraph results, I think they were inconclusive by one or more of the POI's. JMO. As far as formally declaring them innocent, I doubt they do that but I could be wrong. It might end with a statement saying that the investigation was inconclusive.

I'm sure there are others here who know of similar cases on here that can help answer our questions about it.

Three cases that come to mind are Lisa Irwin, Ayla Reynolds and Madeleine McCann. They haven't been solved, even though in the first two there appears to be more evidence than in DeOrr's case. Investigators don't give up, but in time, the investigation slows down as clues dry up. Heartbreaking and frustrating, especially when there is blood evidence, as in Ayla's case. JMO

There are threads here on these cases, but here are quick summaries from Wikipedia. The number of investigators in the McCann case has just been scaled back to four, according to the article linked below.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Lisa_Irwin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Ayla_Reynolds

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34661256