ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[minnermomma]

That was made into a movie with Meryl Streep wasn't it? I'd like to see that one again, it's been years.

Have never seen it neesaki, any idea if you know the name of movie? Have read a few articles about the case and sure would like to watch it ..TIA

 

[giagreen]

Evil Angels? Its an older one I think.

 

[neesaki]

Have never seen it neesaki, any idea if you know the name of movie? Have read a few articles about the case and sure would like to watch it ..TIA

It's been so long I had to look it up , it's called "A Cry in the Dark" . I'd forgotten Sam Neill plays her husband, I really like him.

A mother whose child was killed in a Dingo attack in the Australian outback fights to prove her innocence when she is accused of murder.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094924/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_55

 

[neesaki]

Evil Angels? Its an older one I think.

How interesting, I just checked again and that was indeed the original title. I never knew that.

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't think a bear took little Deorr, but I don't necessarily think bears are always noisy either. We were at Cade's Cove in the Smokies and a guy came walking real fast out of a field. We asked him if anything was wrong. He said he had been in the field looking back towards the forest when a couple came walking out on a trail that lead from the woods. As he watched, a bear reared up to its hind feet from out of the blackberry bushes right behind them. The couple never knew the bear was there right beside the path. They kept on walking and never saw it, but it evidently scared the guy who observed it. So I guess bears can be quiet sometimes, too. Of course, the bear didn't attack them. Perhaps that would make a difference in any noise it might make. I agree that a bear taking the toddler is unlikely. IMO.

Cade's Cove is the place where little Dennis Martin disappeared from 45 years ago. The circumstances were almost identical to those of little DeOrr. Four years after his disappearance, some of his clothing, his shoe, a tooth, and his skull were located. Although the case remains "unsolved", it is believed by some (including some LE) that Dennis was taken by a mountain lion.

 

[Hoosier952]

I think it happens more then we realize. Some dogs that have been taken by ml were only confirmed because of surveillance videos and if not for those videos nobody would of ever known what happen to the dogs. As there isn't blood or anything left behind.
All these missing 411 cases are not as spooky as they sound...well okay I guess spooky maybe but it isn't Bigfoot taking these people. I fully believe we have overlooked the ml on many of those cases. What els in the forest could make whole humans disappear? Its all pretty interesting.

At first I thought DeOrr might have been kidnapped. But just because I have an open mind I decided to look at the ml theory. And seriously for every question I had that made me think it would be impossible I'd always find an answer that made it possible.

Its sad. I really hope a ml didn't get to him because if one did I'm not sure if there will ever be an answer for these parents. I hope they at least find his boots or pants at some point. But because of the lack of any sign of him I really think one may have.

BBM-Mother nature and scavengers can make whole humans disappear. Squirrels and other rodents will gnaw at bones, coyotes will drag them off to chew on later, same with bears, cougars, wolves, etc. Buzzards and such will pick at whatever they can get to. Mother nature will eventually cover what, if anything, is left. I'd say in an area with a high population of scavengers/predators, it wouldn't take more than a day or two to completely disappear a small child. You could probably still find bones scattered around for a while, but they'd be hard to find and most human bones, especially individually, would be hard to differentiate from animal bones to most people.

 

[ILOKAL]

Yeah. We have never had grizzly bears here and from what I hear that's a great thing. I think the diff is grizzly bears are not scared of us. Black bears usually are.
But we do have lots of black bears. Its not uncommon to see one running around. We use to go camping every year on bear island and they never bothered us as long as we kept our food stored properly. Its a given just don't mess with their baby bears or it'd be a different story. Completely understandable. Idk I always thought they were cute. And bears don't care. You can hear them coming a mile away. I've just always been thankful we don't have grizzly bears. They are not as nice. But yeah I don't think a bear would of took him because bears make noise. Ml on the other hand....they stalk in silence.

As it turns out, Salmon Forest, Lemhi County, DOES have grizzlies, FWIW.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/scnf/learning/safety-ethics/?cid=stelprdb5297910

 

[Trident]

Cade's Cove is the place where little Dennis Martin disappeared from 45 years ago. The circumstances were almost identical to those of little DeOrr. Four years after his disappearance, some of his clothing, his shoe, a tooth, and his skull were located. Although the case remains "unsolved", it is believed by some (including some LE) that Dennis was taken by a mountain lion.

I believe you are thinking of Jayred Atadero. Nothing was ever found pertaining to Dennis. Someone said they found bones, or so they said, but didn't report it 'till years later. No trace of Dennis has been found, although I have always believed he was taken by a mountain lion.

 

[giagreen]

BBM-Mother nature and scavengers can make whole humans disappear. Squirrels and other rodents will gnaw at bones, coyotes will drag them off to chew on later, same with bears, cougars, wolves, etc. Buzzards and such will pick at whatever they can get to. Mother nature will eventually cover what, if anything, is left. I'd say in an area with a high population of scavengers/predators, it wouldn't take more than a day or two to completely disappear a small child. You could probably still find bones scattered around for a while, but they'd be hard to find and most human bones, especially individually, would be hard to differentiate from animal bones to most people.

I agree that mother nature can cause whole humans to disappear over time. But I'm talking about the cases where people vanished in just minutes. There are so many of them that are just like DeOrrs case where you see them one moment and the next they are just gone with out a single trace.

 

[Arnie M]

BBM-Mother nature and scavengers can make whole humans disappear. Squirrels and other rodents will gnaw at bones, coyotes will drag them off to chew on later, same with bears, cougars, wolves, etc. Buzzards and such will pick at whatever they can get to. Mother nature will eventually cover what, if anything, is left. I'd say in an area with a high population of scavengers/predators, it wouldn't take more than a day or two to completely disappear a small child. You could probably still find bones scattered around for a while, but they'd be hard to find and most human bones, especially individually, would be hard to differentiate from animal bones to most people.

DeOrr most likely wandered off as was reported , unfortunately he would not live very long and nature would do exactly as you posted . Thank you.

Some folks seem to think wildlife itself caused the disappearance , but personally I doubt it.

Wildlife will always comes into play afterward , but rarely as the cause .

 

[ILOKAL]

I am in agreement with the other posters that think a mountain lion was responsible for little Deorr's disappearance.

At first I thought he could be in the reservoir somewhere-but his little body surely would have surfaced by now.

According to some sources, mountain lion populations in the Middle Fork area of the Salmon River are at an all time high.

http://mfloutfitters.com/lion-bobcat-wolf-hunts/

 

[ILOKAL]

I believe you are thinking of Jayred Atadero. Nothing was ever found pertaining to Dennis. Someone said they found bones, or so they said, but didn't report it 'till years later. No trace of Dennis has been found, although I have always believed he was taken by a mountain lion.

I wouldn't be surprised as I've gotten those two cases mixed up before. I don't know why I keep doing that. That's for posting it correctly. But it WAS Dennis Martin who disappeared at Cade's Cove, no?

 

[giagreen]

How interesting, I just checked again and that was indeed the original title. I never knew that.

Yeah...lol I only know that cause a few years ago I got pretty into that case. Very sad situation. I think what breaks my heart is people are still joking about the "a dingo ate my baby" when a dingo really did eat her baby.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The conversation about DeOrr being taken by an animal reminds me of the case of Lindy Chamberlain in Australia whose baby was taken by a dingo while camping. It took thirty years for her to be fully vindicated, after being tried and convicted in the court of public opinion, the press and an actual courtroom. She was sentenced to life in prison, but it was eventually overturned. This is a fascinating article on the subject.

A point that hits home is the impact of the media, social or otherwise. Lindy felt judged whether she smiled or cried.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/17/u...an-scorned-by-australias-news-media.html?_r=0

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Chamberlain-Creighton

Lindy was convicted and spent time in jail for Azaria's murder. The media also convicted he, along with the public. Her daughter's murder became a pop culture joke.

In Deorr's case, the media has never even implied the parents did it. One local news outlet regularly puts out articles sympathetic to them. The most active forum on the case prohibits members from accusing or sleuthing the parents. I don't even think this case is that active in social media.

 

[ILOKAL]

All kinds of statistics have been talked about regarding mountain lions in Idaho, specifically in the area where little DeOrr disappeared. One poster has stated since not many mountain lions were taken by hunters from that area, it must be because there are not many IN that area to be hunted. I came across some very interesting information.

Remember when SB said wolves (15?) and bears ran through the search area?

As it so happens, because there are so many wolves in certain areas, and because about 90% of mountain lions taken by hunters are taken with hounds, many hunters no longer hunt in such areas because too many of their hounds have been killed by the wolves. So, that leaves more mountain lions than there would be if the area was being well hunted. And, although wolves and mountain lions seldom attack each other as prey, wolves often will take the lion's kill which then leaves the lions to kill more often. And although there are predation plans for each area to keep the numbers of mountain lions in check, no such plan is in place for that area. IMO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Posted twice by accident...not sure how to delete on tapatalk.

 

[Trident]

I wouldn't be surprised as I've gotten those two cases mixed up before. I don't know why I keep doing that. That's for posting it correctly. But it WAS Dennis Martin who disappeared at Cade's Cove, no?

Dennis disappeared from Spence Field. Whether or not that's part of Cade's Cove, I don't know, but both are in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. At any rate, it's close enough for me, lol.

 

[ILOKAL]

Dennis disappeared from Spence Field. Whether or not that's part of Cade's Cove, I don't know, but both are in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. At any rate, it's close enough for me, lol.

Some articles refer to where he disappeared as Cade's Cove and others as Spencer Field as a part of Cave's Cove, but apparently they are about six miles apart and the family was at Spencer Field when Dennis vanished. Thanks.

 

[haven71]

Just noticed in the first interview something I hadn't caught on to before.

JM said Deorr never went anywhere without his blanket, his monkey, and his cup. Her wording through me off a little. She said these items were "left at the campsite". As if Deorr did have access to them but left without them, like Deorr is the one who did the leaving. Probably means nothing, but I think I would've worded it as "his blanket, monkey, and cup were STILL at the campsite."

 

[ILOKAL]

Just noticed in the first interview something I hadn't caught on to before.

JM said Deorr never went anywhere without his blanket, his monkey, and his cup. Her wording through me off a little. She said these items were "left at the campsite". As if Deorr did have access to them but left without them, like Deorr is the one who did the leaving. Probably means nothing, but I think I would've worded it as "his blanket, monkey, and cup were STILL at the campsite."

Interesting observation. So, if that was the case, and DeOrr DID have access to them, it "could" indicate he didn't wander off (and left them behind) but rather was taken directly from the campsite. But I also read those items were inside the truck.