ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[Little Ol Me]

That's bothered me, too. I don't know unless he really believed the clerk saw them and was talking about them. Otherwise, I'd be all, "Let's get an alert out and find out who has my baby and why he's sobbing and bawling and filthy!" But maybe at that point, abduction hadn't really crossed their mind? Maybe they were with SB and genuinely thought he was just lost.

Could it be that this is what happened?
Upon hearing or reading this rumor that JM & DK ask that it be checked out immediately.
It was, ..and was found to be untrue.
Perhaps the clerk not even remembering the family at all? Thus why they went back with SB. a couple days later to see the clerk? To clear things up?

JM.& DK were talking about unhelpful rumors on SM.

 

[pappa rob]

Where's the proof that he was in the store?

Where's the proof that he wasn't?

 

[ILOKAL]

Sounds like he hasn't gotten anything useful as of yet from the FBI. Crossing fingers hoping for something.

I tend to agree. You can't get anything if there's nothing to get. All the FBI can do when that happens is make a "To Do List" pointing out things LE didn't do and suggest things they should do as well as things that need to be revisited. Sounds like SB is doing just that. He seems to truly wonder why they haven't gotten anything back from the FBI on the behavioral analysis. I think he put a lot of weight on that (critical) because he doesn't have anything else. I think he's at a total loss and is forced to revisit theories he had previously dismissed.

 

[Rayemonde]

I was open to the Mt Lion theory. But after seeing the drone photos and how wide open the area is---I don't know. If the 4 adults were all within close distance, and the baby stepped away and vanished, why didnt anyone see a large mountain lion? It was a very wide open expansive area.

I thought the same thing. Yes mountain lions can be stealthy, but they don't have secret powers of invisibility - especially when they're slowed down by dragging away a toddler. There are plenty of youtube videos of people being stalked by mountain lions that can clearly be seen. I noticed in YouTube videos that they did drag their prey too, I'm not convinced that one could actually carry a toddler away unless it was a particularly large lion. If it had him by the head or throat, his legs would be dragging along the ground at least.

I found one one person who had ever been killed by a mountain lion in Rocky Mountain - it was at the edge of Summer land Park. I posted the link in the last thread. A ten year old boy who ran ahead of his parents and was attacked by an adult female mountain lion. He attempted to fight her off but choked on his own vomit. She was scared off by the parents as she attempts to drag him away, but returned later and attacked the man guarding the body, and was shot and killed.

I also found mountain lion fatality in Idaho Falls, where Deorr's family live. He was a lone jogger. I wondered if DeOrr's family ever heard of that case and if they were aware of the danger they pose, especially to small children.

I was actually genuinely concerned about the smallish dog shown running loose at the campsite - if there are bold mountain lions there, the dog looked like an ideal target for an attack. Plus all of the searchers up there - if there is a mountain lion there who has already eaten a child, surely it will be likely to attack a human again.

 

[giagreen]

I was open to the Mt Lion theory. But after seeing the drone photos and how wide open the area is---I don't know. If the 4 adults were all within close distance, and the baby stepped away and vanished, why didnt anyone see a large mountain lion? It was a very wide open expansive area.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eswTr-gjkSw

Check this out. This is ml hunting in Idaho....idk I was shocked how well they can hide up in trees.

 

[ILOKAL]

But why would D. Sr. say that's "a problem"? And why would he be so certain that it was him and the clerk was mistaken about the time? It could just as easily have been some other person with a black truck and a kid. I'm sure there are plenty of families with black pickups and little kids. Even if their minds didn't hadn't yet gone to abduction, he had no reason that I'm aware of to be so certain that it was him but hours earlier than the clerk was saying.

Maybe DK was aware of more identifying information regarding the "rumor" so knew she was talking about him and little DeOrr. Just because he didn't give a complete blow-by-blow and go into each and every detail during that interview doesn't mean he didn't have more information.

 

[Rayemonde]

Wait a second, I think I'm confused. I was thinking that the family were camping in the Rocky Mountain National Park but they weren't, were they - they were camping in the Salmon - Challis National Forest??

 

[iluvmua]

Wait a second, I think I'm confused. I was thinking that the family were camping in the Rocky Mountain National Park but they weren't, were they - they were camping in the Salmon - Challis National Forest??

Timber Creek Campground near Leadore.

But I believe it it close to the Salmon Challis National Forest.

 

[kammiemc]

<modsnip>

I sorta thought, because he was talking about SAR equipment, etc., he was talking about terrain, weather conditions, etc.

I can't imagine how broken I would be if my son were missing. A living hell.

 

[bessie]

I have a question. What are we allowed to say on these forums? They're discussion forums. If there were no theories or thoughts on any of the interviews or articles on MSM, what is left?

Simply a timeline and MSM links?

Websleuths differs from a lot of other forums in that we do not run roughshod over victims. This is explained in The Rules, specifically the Victim Friendly section of Etiquette & Information:

The Rules

Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects.

Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them.

Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.

==============================

Bumping this reminder with emphasis added by me.

Time outs will be issued without further warning for violating this rule.

We want to keep this thread open as a means of support for DeOrr and DeOrr's family. Rather than remove the thread again, we will simply remove the posters who refuse to comply with TOS.

 

[Sillybilly]

Taking off the Mod hat here and speaking as a parent.

What is typical/atypical parent behaviour when a child is &#8220;lost&#8221;.

Who could ever believe it possible that you would forget significant details surrounding the disappearance of a child?

Many years ago my daughter died of SIDS. I have zero recollection of even one single detail of her funeral. The cause of SIDS is unknown so I have no answers, but I hear forever the words of others who tried to somehow find their answers by placing blame on us as young parents.

A few years later, I thought I was relating details of my daughter&#8217;s funeral to a friend. My mother overheard, and with a look of great concern, said to me &#8220;That is not <your daughter&#8217;s> funeral you are describing.&#8221;

When my son died years later, I was able to recall everything leading up to and after his death &#8230; everything except him ever being born.

Surely I am not the only grieving parent in the world who is atypical. I don&#8217;t know, but in my attempt to understand how anyone could be unable to remember such significant events, a psychiatrist explained that my memory was probably working very well &#8230; it has tried to protect me by deciding that sometimes things related to the loss of a child are just too traumatic.

Please try to give loved ones the benefit of the doubt when they cannot find the right words or precisely recall the intricacies surrounding Deorr&#8217;s disappearance.

 

[dek]

Katydid23: IDK about the openness in that area, I think there are plenty of shrubbery like plants/sage that gets pretty large etc so there is some ground cover...Now I know this particular area in SD is Not Close to where the campground is..but this shows you how stealthy a mountain lion is. And if I could bring over the picture I would. Anyone that knows how to please feel free

http://travel.nationalgeographic.co...azine/photo-contest/2012/entries/150465/view/
From this link.

"I took this photo after we were leaving the restaurant on a drive from Denver to Mt. Rushmore"
"Notice the mountain lion on the top of the restaurant? I didn't notice it until I looked at the photos."

 

[Cardinal47]

Over the years I have followed a few families of missing children. Coming to mind are the Harringtons, Smarts, Hastings and Mark Klass. I also remember the Irwin's, the Celis family and Billie Dunn.

Some families and the way they grieve just seems to stick with you.

Never having lost a child I have no idea how I would do.

Families of children killed or missing all act differently and perhaps due to their circumstances don't have the resources to do what the public expects from them.

In my lifetime I never thought parents, siblings and family members ever hurt children. They just didn't do that.

Then...I learned that sometimes there are bad people having precious children. They abuse them and they kill them.

I am on the fence about DeOrr. I have no idea what happened to that little boy. He vanished. There one minute and gone the next never to find a trace of him anywhere with all the searching that went on.

Naturally we look at the four adults that were there. "Where is he we ask? What happened to him?"

I have hope every single day that someday the mystery of DeOrr will be solved. Each day when I turn on my computer I look for that light that will tell us all what happened to that little 2 year old boy.

Hope Springs Eternal!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Taking off the Mod hat here and speaking as a parent.

What is typical/atypical parent behaviour when a child is “lost”.

Who could ever believe it possible that you would forget significant details surrounding the disappearance of a child?

Many years ago my daughter died of SIDS. I have zero recollection of even one single detail of her funeral. The cause of SIDS is unknown so I have no answers, but I hear forever the words of others who tried to somehow find their answers by placing blame on us as young parents.

A few years later, I thought I was relating details of my daughter’s funeral to a friend. My mother overheard, and with a look of great concern, said to me “That is not <your daughter’s> funeral you are describing.”

When my son died years later, I was able to recall everything leading up to and after his death … everything except him ever being born.

Surely I am not the only grieving parent in the world who is atypical. I don’t know, but in my attempt to understand how anyone could be unable to remember such significant events, a psychiatrist explained that my memory was probably working very well … it has tried to protect me by deciding that sometimes things related to the loss of a child are just too traumatic.

Please try to give loved ones the benefit of the doubt when they cannot find the right words or precisely recall the intricacies surrounding Deorr’s disappearance.

I am so sorry for your losses. I cannot ever imagine a pain worse than losing your child or children. My heart goes out to you and your family.

The brain does shield us from things too traumatic to deal with until such a time the memories return little by little, as if to give it back in small doses. Those small doses give us time to react slowly and not shock our senses all at once. It is a built-in safety feature. Sometimes the memories return in weeks or months. Other times, it takes years or never. And there is no proper way to grieve. You just go through it and come out on the other side, if you are lucky. You just keep moving forward.

Again, my deepest condolences. Hugs~

 

[Purplepixii]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eswTr-gjkSw

Check this out. This is ml hunting in Idaho....idk I was shocked how well they can hide up in trees.

What a beautiful animal. I will never, until the day I die, understand how killing such a creature can be determined as a "sport" :cry:

 

[Rayemonde]

What a beautiful animal. I will never, until the day I die, understand how killing such a creature can be determined as a "sport" :cry:

Totally agree... I didn't watch it once I realised that it was a hunting video

I was being serious with my question, by the way. Has anyone found any cases of mountain lions attacking or killing anyone in the area where DeOrr went missing? I have looked but couldn't find any. I couldn't find any records of how many mountain lions might be in the area, either.

 

[ILOKAL]

Totally agree... I didn't watch it once I realised that it was a hunting video

I was being serious with my question, by the way. Has anyone found any cases of mountain lions attacking or killing anyone in the area where DeOrr went missing? I have looked but couldn't find any. I couldn't find any records of how many mountain lions might be in the area, either.

Raymonde, your post (not this one, but the one you posted yesterday) said you thought the family was camping in the Rocky Mountains National Park. It said nothing about information on ML in the area where DeOrr went missing. Perhaps that was in a different post that is no longer here?

Here's some helpful information for you. You won't find another attack in that area any more than you would find multiple attacks in other areas. There is one exception that I am aware of in California, but children are no longer allowed in that area.

Now, as for numbers of mountain lions in that area . . . . No one knows because Idaho is the only state that refuses to release that information:

http://www.mountainlion.org/us/id/-id-portal.asp

 

[ILOKAL]

What a beautiful animal. I will never, until the day I die, understand how killing such a creature can be determined as a "sport" :cry:

To me, all forest animals are beautiful creatures. Not all hunting is for the purpose of "sport". I'll tell you one thing though, Idaho sure is proud of its BIG mountain lions and the biggest ones known were from Idaho. Also, Idaho is the only state that refuses to give estimates on the number of cats in the state. Here's some info:

http://www.mountainlion.org/us/id/-id-portal.asp

 

[Onebest]

Taking off the Mod hat here and speaking as a parent.

What is typical/atypical parent behaviour when a child is &#8220;lost&#8221;.

Who could ever believe it possible that you would forget significant details surrounding the disappearance of a child?

Many years ago my daughter died of SIDS. I have zero recollection of even one single detail of her funeral. The cause of SIDS is unknown so I have no answers, but I hear forever the words of others who tried to somehow find their answers by placing blame on us as young parents.

A few years later, I thought I was relating details of my daughter&#8217;s funeral to a friend. My mother overheard, and with a look of great concern, said to me &#8220;That is not <your daughter&#8217;s> funeral you are describing.&#8221;

When my son died years later, I was able to recall everything leading up to and after his death &#8230; everything except him ever being born.

Surely I am not the only grieving parent in the world who is atypical. I don&#8217;t know, but in my attempt to understand how anyone could be unable to remember such significant events, a psychiatrist explained that my memory was probably working very well &#8230; it has tried to protect me by deciding that sometimes things related to the loss of a child are just too traumatic.

Please try to give loved ones the benefit of the doubt when they cannot find the right words or precisely recall the intricacies surrounding Deorr&#8217;s disappearance.

Thank you for your words of wisdom and for caring enough to find the courage to share your experiences. God bless you. I am so sorry for the loss of your precious children.

 

[EllieBee]

http://xtremeidaho.com/living-with-mountain-lions-in-pocatello/

Typically, mountain lion sightings are rare in Idaho. Sportsmen and wildlife watchers alike recognize how elusive these animals can be in a wild setting &#8212; often to the chagrin of those hoping to catch a glimpse of North America&#8217;s biggest cat. Even when the Idaho Department of Fish and Game conducts deer and elk flights from helicopters, it is still rare that mountain lions, or cougars as they are also known, are observed.

I posted this earlier but it was several days ago...still think it has lots of really good info. And not just this one article! I enjoyed poking around the whole site. .

We are planning to spend a month next summer in CO; We might need a side trip up to Idaho. Lovely!