ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[ilovepierre]

Sorry to jump in randomly here....IMO, DeOrr never made it to the campsite
Unless there is evidence that proves he was. Is there? I can't remember...

 

[Aeronomy]

Sorry to jump in randomly here....IMO, DeOrr never made it to the campsite
Unless there is evidence that proves he was. Is there? I can't remember...

In the interview earlier this week, IR stated he did see DeOrr there.

 

[Inthedetails]

Sorry to jump in randomly here....IMO, DeOrr never made it to the campsite
Unless there is evidence that proves he was. Is there? I can't remember...

I think it's possible he never made it to the campground.

However, IR places him there, but we don't know anything more than IR says he saw him. Was he sleeping, playing, in the car, with them on the walk? We don't know anything except the parents' version(s) of events and what IR said.

At this point, I think he was there, but I'm not sure he ever got out of the vehicle. Just don't know.

Opinions subject to change. JMO.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Are you suggesting that all 18 dog teams didn't follow training or procedure?

Im suggesting that the scent articles given to find deorr could have had mixed scents from other people that handled the articles. Example mom.

Now there are article bagging procedures before letting the dogs take the initial smell. But that doesn't mean that the smell would only be deorrs alone. Jmo. When a parent hands something over or previously dealt with the article. Then this is called possible contamination.

Jmo. So the dogs don't matter if others scents are on the articles. A smokers scent that previously touched the articles will outweigh deorrs scent altogether. Jmo.

So this may be why the dogs couldnt have a better chance to find him. Jmo

 

[ILOKAL]

Well, with all due respect, if you cannot present the "chili" to the K9 so the job requested has probabilty of detection OR if the "chili" isnt in the vacinity of where you are asking the Dog to work I can guarantee nothing will be found. Failure on the dogs part? Subjective depending on who is analyzing the behavior of the dog. IMO if there was no "chili" to be found the dog is a success not making a find. Just food for thought.

Of course that would go without saying, but it doesn't work in my theory that DeOrr wandered off and is still waiting to be found . More food for thought.

 

[ilovepierre]

In the interview earlier this week, IR stated he did see DeOrr there.

Unless IR is covering for the parents...
IR MAY have seen DeOrr, but was he alive? Maybe IR saw a "sleeping"DeOrr.

JMO

 

[Hoosgirl]

Apologies if a repeat, but I had missed this bit if so:

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told Dateline it's because of DeOrr's parents' inconsistent stories that they are being named suspects at this time.

"We first became real suspicious of mom and dad after their initial polygraph tests, taken several weeks after DeOrr went missing. Then this past weekend, when the FBI handed over their reports and interviews, that's when we made the decision to inform the public," Sheriff Bowerman told Dateline.

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/par...ed-suspects-summer-2015-disappearance-n503966

 

[EllieBee]

<snipped>
Oh.
I've read all kinds of opinions/theories about gunshot wound, beatings, strangulation, suffocation, intentional drowning, hot-car death, shaken baby syndrome, car death, violent death before arrival at campsite, etc. My mind won't even go there without some conclusive proof.

Yep. We speculate quite a bit. We explore all possibilities within TOS, and sometimes the speculation is as tragic and horrific as the reality often is.

But saying there are folks here who are hoping and wishing for DeOrr to have died a painful, grusome death, is, IMO, really uncalled for.

I am sure you did not mean it that way, but that is how it reads.

 

[Onebest]

Of course that would go without saying, but it doesn't work in my theory that DeOrr wandered off and is still waiting to be found . More food for thought.

Always hope!

 

[CanManEh]

Quote Originally Posted by ILOKAL View Post
Of course that would go without saying, but it doesn't work in my theory that DeOrr wandered off and is still waiting to be found . More food for thought.

I Dont completely disagree he very well could have just wondered off but its been a hell of a long time and winter is here so unless he has the same skills as Bear grills i don't think he is just gonna be sitting there waiting to be found..

 

[Mickshawn]

I think it's possible he never made it to the campground.

However, IR places him there, but we don't know anything more than IR says he saw him. Was he sleeping, playing, in the car, with them on the walk? We don't know anything except the parents' version(s) of events and what IR said.

At this point, I think he was there, but I'm not sure he ever got out of the vehicle. Just don't know.

Opinions subject to change. JMO.

I, too, think it's possible he NEVER made it to the campground.....Perhaps there was a bundle of blankets in the car and IR was told he was in there sleeping.

 

[1&2&3]

One thing that has stood out to me is I do not recall it ever being said in Deorr's case that due to his size, being small, the dogs were not able to pick up a good scent or trail.

Having just followed Noah's case, this statement was repeated many times. We even had at least one SAR person explain it that small (young) children don't shed many cells-can't remember the exact name-like adults.


What would be the difference in the two cases? Curiosity only, not for dispute.

 

[EllieBee]

With so many cases of SAR dogs NOT finding the lost person, another analogy might be - some dogs fail to smell the chili - just sayin!

Friend, you and I don't too often agree, but on this I will say "Mmmm Hmmmm".

No offense to SAR dog peeps, but in all of the cases I have followed both before and after registering, I have yet to see dogs do much of anything.

Now, I am a dog lover. My dogs are my people. So I absolutely think dogs are amazingly smart and sensitive and trainable.

And there is every chance I have followed the wrong cases, only those where dogs were inconclusive, conflicting, or just plain old missed everything.

So basically it is MOO that when I read "they are sending in dogs" I skim past. But I wanted to acknowlege another member posting what I also think about those dogs.

 

[juli99]

I think in the end with Noah Chamberlin the dogs did start to alert again didn't they? That is why they thought they might find him. It seems like the dogs need to be within a certain distance of the person, not so much that they can follow a trail. I could be totally wrong on that.

Out of interest after Noah's case I was reading through a 100 page SAR search training guide... all different methods of searching right down to the minute detail of how they conduct the search. Really quite blown away - I realized how little I know.

 

[Aeronomy]

One thing that has stood out to me is I do not recall it ever being said in Deorr's case that due to his size, being small, the dogs were not able to pick up a good scent or trail.

Having just followed Noah's case, this statement was repeated many times. We even had at least one SAR person explain it that small (young) children don't shed many cells-can't remember the exact name-like adults.


What would be the difference in the two cases? Curiosity only, not for dispute.

I think in the minor (because multiple teams were used) - the terrain, the dogs, the handlers
A possible major - the presence or absence of a scent to trail.

 

[BeachSky]

Unless IR is covering for the parents...
IR MAY have seen DeOrr, but was he alive? Maybe IR saw a "sleeping"DeOrr.

JMO

I'd be curious to know if anyone checked for the child in the truck
besides the father ( or mother). I'm thinking IR unwillingly became part of the lie.
I always thought, why have the parents never said they suspected IR?
The father was way too anxious to get the searching to stop at immed campsite & water...he wanted to redirect us to the abductor theory. Was there a drop off dumpster anywhere near where he "drove for signal"? ..What landfill was it connected to? Perhaps his plan was for the child to be found , not far, and soon thus appear discarded by an abductor. I think the crying & pain on their faces was they had to leave him where they put him to make the story work. And then, the child was gone to some landfill or animal activity( driving distance away).
Tangled web.
I quit reading about this for months because it just did not add up...
so I apologize if I don't know all the particulars. All I know ..is to not only accidentally kill your child but to leave them to the elements to save yourself...horrific.

All JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

I think in the end with Noah Chamberlin the dogs did start to alert again didn't they? That is why they thought they might find him. It seems like the dogs need to be within a certain distance of the person, not so much that they can follow a trail. I could be totally wrong on that.

Out of interest after Noah's case I was reading through a 100 page SAR search training guide... all different methods of searching right down to the minute detail of how they conduct the search. Really quite blown away - I realized how little I know.

Little Noah was found a short distance outside the search area in an open area. It is believed Noah stayed on the trails. I don't know if it's been officially stated, but IIRC, it was cadaver dogs that eventually alerted, but the dogs didn't find him. IMO

 

[katydid23]

I'm starting to think you're right... A simple accident doesn't make much sense, especially if there was no drug use involved.

But not necessarily. If they accidentally left him too long in the truck to nap, and her died of heat exposure, that could result in manslaughter charges.

And it could also result in mom losing visitation with her older children. I think they had lots of reasons to cover it up, even if it was an accident.

 

[Dee10]

But not necessarily. If they accidentally left him too long in the truck to nap, and her died of heat exposure, that could result in manslaughter charges.

And it could also result in mom losing visitation with her older children. I think they had lots of reasons to cover it up, even if it was an accident.

I agree Katydid23 a quick google search shows they do charge some people. Heck, they are also charging people when I live if you leave a pet in the car. Also this was a very rough dirt road, 8 miles IIRC. We have a cottage on such a road (1 1/2 miles) & in the summer unless it has rained you have to keep the windows up because of the dust. I can see a hot car death as a real possibility, plus the blanket was in the truck.

 

[scmom]

Yes, the blanket in the truck isn't in keeping with DeOrr's attachment to it. I would have thought it would have been with him when it was nap time.