ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

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January 27, 2016

Article Title:
FORMER KUNZ INVESTIGATOR: DEORR KUNZ AND JESSICA MITCHELL LIED ABOUT SON’S DISAPPEARANCE

Video Transcript

(Nate Interview Speaks with Frank Vilt, former family PI)

0:01
Nate Eaton: All right, so Frank, this letter that’s been going around the internet, it looks like you wrote back in September.

0:05
FV: Well, basically I told that because of circumstances beyond my control. I dropped them as clients because of a breach of trust on their part, because they didn’t seem to trust me what I wanted to do. What I mean by that, I wanted to go public with this. I wanted to go national public, and I wanted to advertise we have this little missing boy. We need more eyes and ears to try to find this missing boy. I offered a $20,000 reward, and they did not want me offering the reward. They said that the Sheriff didn’t want it. They said the Sheriff didn’t want to go public, and the Sheriff never mentioned that to me and so… I started finding little…little things that they were inconsistent. Their stories didn’t jive. One was the timeline, and there was some overemphasis of Jessica, uh…stating that she knew the boy was in the campground because she kept looking back – “I kept looking back…I kept looking back…” and it seemed like this was like an overkill. Why would she keep saying this over and over and over again? She wanted to establish that the boy was in the campground. This was after they came back from town and um they saw some fish that Isaac and Bob, the grandfather, caught and so Deorr says, “Well show me where those fish are. Where’d you catch those fish?” And so they went off with Jessica, Deorr and Isaac went off to the creek where they caught fish supposedly, and Jessica kept saying, “I kept looking back to make sure Little Man was there. I kept looking back…kept looking back...” Why did she overemphasize that? And that was kind of one of the things, and she couldn’t answer my question as to why she kept saying that, like she wanted to establish like an alibi that the boy was there, and some other things that were just inconsistent and didn’t want to…were hiding things, like they weren’t coming forth with the truth. The timeline didn’t make sense.

02:05
Nate: When the news came out earlier this week, the Sheriff is naming them as suspects, were you surprised?

02:10
FV: No, I wasn’t surprised at all. When the…there’s a lot of reasons for that. The Sheriff is not going to just make wild accusations. They’re not going to do anything until you have some evidence. There’s always double jeopardy involved, too, so they name them as suspects, and they’re not going to make an arrest. Most law enforcement people aren’t going to make an arrest until they have the evidence to do so because of double jeopardy, because you don’t want to make an arrest and then the charges are dismissed with prejudice, so they want to avoid that. So when they know that they have suspects and they have some good, concrete evidence then they’re going to name them as suspects and move them up from persons of interest. That’s what they did in this case.

02:53
Nate: Why come forward with this information now?

02:57
FV: Well, because they spread the rumor they fired me, uh, and that’s not true, and I got that from the guys making the documentary on missing children. They told me that Deorr and Jessica told them that they dismissed me – that they fired me.

03:12
Nate: And it’s dated September. That’s when you actually sent it to them and mailed it to them?

03:17
FV: Correct! I followed up the same date of my e-mail. I sent them an e-mail the same date, September 25th. Basically, I said the same thing in my e-mail to them.

03:27
Nate: What do you think happened to Deorr?

03:31
FV: Well, I feel there’s uh…one possibility is a … scenario is that uh…it’s only because Jessica giving up custody of her other two kids and because she didn’t really want kids, and when she had Deorr that she was …her tubes were tied and for all intents and purposes sterilized so she could never be reversed. I believe that because of the laws, and Nebraska is an example and Utah, there are adoption laws that as long as the…even though the father may be on the birth certificate, as long as they were not married, the mother could basically have carte blanche to do what she wants to do as far as adopting out her child. So the one possibility was the child was adopted out – it was an out-of-state adoption which was arranged as a cover story so Deorr wouldn’t find out about the … they staged this possible stranger abduction or pre-arranged abduction or there was a problem where the boy is…was injured and could be deceased, so I kind of lean towards looking towards life rather than death. So I just feel there’s a possibility the boy could have been adopted out and didn’t want the father to know, and now because of them being named as suspects the pressure being put on between the two so uh, hopefully one will roll over on the other one, but it just didn’t make sense that this boy is missing , and I want to see a resolution to this case, a favorable resolution, but the more time goes by, it doesn’t look like it’s going to be that way. It could be that there was a homicide.

05:16
Nate: Did they ever pay you for any of your services?

05:20
FV: No. That’s another thing, too. They said that they paid me but they never paid me. Listen, this reminded me of the fact that in the very beginning when I said I’d work for them - cover my expenses and I won’t charge you for my hourly rate, and then Deorr said, “Well, I have a cousin in Utah that has a Go Fund Me and she has $1,900 and we’ll see you get some of that.” Then a few days later I found out that $1,900 was missing. So whoever this person was, this cousin in Utah, had misappropriated the money and used it for their personal use. One of the other reasons I dropped the case, too, I know that Deorr was uh… was pressuring people to donate money. He was getting money from these folks back in Maryland and these Go Fund Me accounts and then I hear there’s other missing money, and he was exploiting people and I just didn’t want to be involved with any of these things where somebody was exploiting money from other people. It just didn’t add up. It didn’t make sense to me. It didn’t seem like they were like normal people would be for their son being missing. It seemed like they were concealing something and hiding something, and their body language, too. They wouldn’t look you…particularly Jessica, would not look you in the eye. She always looked down, looked away, and even when I tried to go eyeball to eyeball with her when I’d talk to her she would look away and not look me straight in the eye and answer my questions.

06:49
Nate: Well, thank you very much, Frank.

Above is video transcript portion only. Article appears below video in link below.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/former-kunz-p-i/
I don't know what to make of this. Some is interesting, but some seems kind of like assuming. Just because you have your tubes tied doesn't mean you staged an abduction to do a secret adoption. The adoptive parents would need all of little DeOrr's paperwork.

I do believe him that these people are not truthful, but just saying he's making some connections that are a bit odd...unless hes holding back a lot of information.

Also, how is he allowed to publicly speak about all of this? Wouldn't there have been some expectation of privacy with his clients?



Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 
Ugh, I forgot to hit quote, so whoever was asking about being sterilized at 22, the answer is "it depends on the doctor".

I had three kids by 25 and discussed having my tubes tied with both my midwife and my primary care physician. My midwife wasn't willing to do it at all, because of my age. My doctor was willing and had no age cut off or required number of children. He just requires a nice chat about your choice.
 
I don't know what to make of this. Some is interesting, but some seems kind of like assuming. Just because you have your tubes tied doesn't mean you staged an abduction to do a secret adoption. The adoptive parents would need all of little DeOrr's paperwork.

I do believe him that these people are not truthful, but just saying he's making some connections that are a bit odd...unless hes holding back a lot of information.

Also, how is he allowed to publicly speak about all of this? Wouldn't there have been some expectation of privacy with his clients?



Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

He was never paid so I think that voided the contract re privacy.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
Will also post this in Media/Timeline.
Note: Any/all grammar or punctuation errors are my own!

January 27, 2016

Article Title:
FORMER KUNZ INVESTIGATOR: DEORR KUNZ AND JESSICA MITCHELL LIED ABOUT SON’S DISAPPEARANCE

Video Transcript

(Nate Interview Speaks with Frank Vilt, former family PI)

0:01
Nate Eaton: All right, so Frank, this letter that’s been going around the internet, it looks like you wrote back in September.

0:05
FV: Well, basically I told that because of circumstances beyond my control. I dropped them as clients because of a breach of trust on their part, because they didn’t seem to trust me what I wanted to do. What I mean by that, I wanted to go public with this. I wanted to go national public, and I wanted to advertise we have this little missing boy. We need more eyes and ears to try to find this missing boy. I offered a $20,000 reward, and they did not want me offering the reward. They said that the Sheriff didn’t want it. They said the Sheriff didn’t want to go public, and the Sheriff never mentioned that to me and so… I started finding little…little things that they were inconsistent. Their stories didn’t jive. One was the timeline, and there was some overemphasis of Jessica, uh…stating that she knew the boy was in the campground because she kept looking back – “I kept looking back…I kept looking back…” and it seemed like this was like an overkill. Why would she keep saying this over and over and over again? She wanted to establish that the boy was in the campground. This was after they came back from town and um they saw some fish that Isaac and Bob, the grandfather, caught and so Deorr says, “Well show me where those fish are. Where’d you catch those fish?” And so they went off with Jessica, Deorr and Isaac went off to the creek where they caught fish supposedly, and Jessica kept saying, “I kept looking back to make sure Little Man was there. I kept looking back…kept looking back...” Why did she overemphasize that? And that was kind of one of the things, and she couldn’t answer my question as to why she kept saying that, like she wanted to establish like an alibi that the boy was there, and some other things that were just inconsistent and didn’t want to…were hiding things, like they weren’t coming forth with the truth. The timeline didn’t make sense.

02:05
Nate: When the news came out earlier this week, the Sheriff is naming them as suspects, were you surprised?

02:10
FV: No, I wasn’t surprised at all. When the…there’s a lot of reasons for that. The Sheriff is not going to just make wild accusations. They’re not going to do anything until you have some evidence. There’s always double jeopardy involved, too, so they name them as suspects, and they’re not going to make an arrest. Most law enforcement people aren’t going to make an arrest until they have the evidence to do so because of double jeopardy, because you don’t want to make an arrest and then the charges are dismissed with prejudice, so they want to avoid that. So when they know that they have suspects and they have some good, concrete evidence then they’re going to name them as suspects and move them up from persons of interest. That’s what they did in this case.

02:53
Nate: Why come forward with this information now?

02:57
FV: Well, because they spread the rumor they fired me, uh, and that’s not true, and I got that from the guys making the documentary on missing children. They told me that Deorr and Jessica told them that they dismissed me – that they fired me.

03:12
Nate: And it’s dated September. That’s when you actually sent it to them and mailed it to them?

03:17
FV: Correct! I followed up the same date of my e-mail. I sent them an e-mail the same date, September 25th. Basically, I said the same thing in my e-mail to them.

03:27
Nate: What do you think happened to Deorr?

03:31
FV: Well, I feel there’s uh…one possibility is a … scenario is that uh…it’s only because Jessica giving up custody of her other two kids and because she didn’t really want kids, and when she had Deorr that she was …her tubes were tied and for all intents and purposes sterilized so she could never be reversed. I believe that because of the laws, and Nebraska is an example and Utah, there are adoption laws that as long as the…even though the father may be on the birth certificate, as long as they were not married, the mother could basically have carte blanche to do what she wants to do as far as adopting out her child. So the one possibility was the child was adopted out – it was an out-of-state adoption which was arranged as a cover story so Deorr wouldn’t find out about the … they staged this possible stranger abduction or pre-arranged abduction or there was a problem where the boy is…was injured and could be deceased, so I kind of lean towards looking towards life rather than death. So I just feel there’s a possibility the boy could have been adopted out and didn’t want the father to know, and now because of them being named as suspects the pressure being put on between the two so uh, hopefully one will roll over on the other one, but it just didn’t make sense that this boy is missing , and I want to see a resolution to this case, a favorable resolution, but the more time goes by, it doesn’t look like it’s going to be that way. It could be that there was a homicide.

05:16
Nate: Did they ever pay you for any of your services?

05:20
FV: No. That’s another thing, too. They said that they paid me but they never paid me. Listen, this reminded me of the fact that in the very beginning when I said I’d work for them - cover my expenses and I won’t charge you for my hourly rate, and then Deorr said, “Well, I have a cousin in Utah that has a Go Fund Me and she has $1,900 and we’ll see you get some of that.” Then a few days later I found out that $1,900 was missing. So whoever this person was, this cousin in Utah, had misappropriated the money and used it for their personal use. One of the other reasons I dropped the case, too, I know that Deorr was uh… was pressuring people to donate money. He was getting money from these folks back in Maryland and these Go Fund Me accounts and then I hear there’s other missing money, and he was exploiting people and I just didn’t want to be involved with any of these things where somebody was exploiting money from other people. It just didn’t add up. It didn’t make sense to me. It didn’t seem like they were like normal people would be for their son being missing. It seemed like they were concealing something and hiding something, and their body language, too. They wouldn’t look you…particularly Jessica, would not look you in the eye. She always looked down, looked away, and even when I tried to go eyeball to eyeball with her when I’d talk to her she would look away and not look me straight in the eye and answer my questions.

06:49
Nate: Well, thank you very much, Frank.

Above is video transcript portion only. Article appears below video in link below.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/former-kunz-p-i/

BBM - So, could there really be something to the California sighting?
 
Wow!
I am shocked at this latest development!
I never once suspected the parents...maybe I just wanted to believe they could do no harm to DeOrr and that he did really walk away.
 
He was never paid so I think that voided the contract re privacy.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
He said he volunteered and they offered to kick him down some donation money. I'm not sure that means they agreed to pay him for his services (not arguing, just theorising).

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 
I think it's a ridiculous idea because as far as I know, Vilt has no evidence at all to back it up. I think he just really wants to believe that DeOrr is alive and his buddy Vernal isn't a murderer as well as a thief (allegedly).

Who's Vernal?
Sorry, I stopped following this forum after the first few threads were made.
Not sure who all the cast of characters are now.

TIA
 
That struck me too... IR seemed very sure that ggp was not on oxygen during the camping trip. And IMO, he would have remembed if he was.

Where did that rumour come from, that he was actually on oxygen *during* the trip? Was it a family member trying to stick up for him when people suspected him?

Yes it came from TC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Who's Vernal?
Sorry, I stopped following this forum after the first few threads were made.
Not sure who all the cast of characters are now.

TIA

Deorr's sr.s real name. Vernal Deorr Kunz Sr.
 
He said he volunteered and they offered to kick him down some donation money. I'm not sure that means they agreed to pay him for his services (not arguing, just theorising).

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
ywah, in his letter he said the offer was conditional on them being honest and cooperative, but who knows if that was actually said or implied. It seems to me that what he's saying is he offered them quite a bit pro bono out of the goodness of his heart and was disgusted to learn he was taken advantage of by people he believes committed a crime and wants to make sure the case is resolved and no one else is taken advantage of. Bitter and disgusted and felt ripped off and taken advantage of, is how I took what he said. I can't blame him if what he says is true (regardless of the adoption/abduction bit). I would assume there was a contract and he considered this a breach of it.
 
He said he volunteered and they offered to kick him down some donation money. I'm not sure that means they agreed to pay him for his services (not arguing, just theorising).

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

From the interview my understanding is he said he wouldn't charge them his hourly rate, only the expenses - of which he received nothing.
 
From the interview my understanding is he said he wouldn't charge them his hourly rate, only the expenses - of which he received nothing.
So, does that mean that, legally, you can disclose information for lack of payment? What about the whole "give a lawyer a dollar before you tell him anything" concept?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 
BBM - So, could there really be something to the California sighting?

My personal feeling is that it wasn't Deorr. Gut intuition only.

Uncanny resemblance, absolutely! I just never felt/believed it was Deorr. But, one never knows....

It would be far better for that to be the case than the alternative, though. I actually hope he was adopted out or was spirited away somewhere safe.
 
My personal feeling is that it wasn't Deorr. Gut intuition only.

Uncanny resemblance, absolutely! I just never felt/believed it was Deorr. But, one never knows....

It would be far better for that to be the case than the alternative, though. I actually hope he was adopted out or was spirited away somewhere safe.
That was my first thought. I really would love if he was alive someplace...thought what kind of parents would agree to lie and stage an abduction?

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Sorry, not buying the adoption thing. When did that happen on their way to the store as a family and Dad never saw it happen?
RSBM

Adopted ? Assuming Vernal is the bio-dad of little DeOrr... he'd have to relinquish him as well, and not just Jessica.
We have some friends and acquaintances who've adopted -- it can be a lengthy process after all is said and done.

It's just 'way out there' imo, for Jessica to have done this in the legal way. Unless it was done illegally.

But then we have IR who claims to have seen baby DeOrr at the campground...
Enough to boggle one's mind, this is ! :confused:
:moo:
 
The information from Vilt is very interesting reading at this point, but his theories are definitely out there. We remember that he was the one behind the Black Jeep Rubicon story.

Further, I agree it is very unprofessional of him to share this information, especially Jessica's personal medical history. I guess he must be so disgusted with DK and JM that he isn't concerned with how it appears.

I'm not saying I don't believe what he is saying.


You know, as bizarre as his theory sounds, Klein also vaguely pointed towards this by ruling out a "forced abduction."

But I can't see any way in the world that DK wouldn't be involved in such a thing. So why would they try to pull this off? Money? If that's the case, then why is JM so reluctant for publicity? Is there something else going on with DeOrr that would make these two want to hide their own toddler?

This is so far afield and unlikely, but not one but TWO PIs have indicated this may be a possibility (although Klein seems to be saying DeOrr almost certainly isn't alive). So what's going on? Their plans got fouled up somehow?

Hmmm.

I really don't think this was an abduction of any kind. But I am really curious now as to what these PIs think happened. all moo.
 
Whoever was asking about Oxygen - here's what's out there:

July/August, 2015
KIFI Facebook
Two separate posts by TBC stating this
https://www.facebook.com/LocalNews8/posts/10153538256878872


August 12, 2015
580 KIDO - Kevin Miller with Nate Eaton

04:26
Nate: Grandfather is elderly, on oxygen and has a few health issues, never been a suspect or anyone they are focusing on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB1jNvgY-uk&feature=youtu.be


September 18, 2015
590 KID Interview with Frank Vilt (3 audios - transcript available media/timeline)

01:45
Frank Vilt: … I feel that the grandfather was too ill. He’s on oxygen almost 24 hours a day, and I feel that he has…he’s not been a part of this. He’s just an older gentleman who has some health problems
http://590kid.com/2015/09/18/tips-about-missing-toddler-forwarded-to-idaho-fusion-center/
 
Jessica Mitchell made so many fliers with Deorr's picture on them... why make so many if you didn't want him to be found? Unless that was her way of dealing with it or trying to make herself look innocent and caring.. She is the one that didn't want the case to go national? That's contradictory, but nothing makes a lot of sense.

If it was a planned abduction then L.E. needs to really go back over her cell phone records and internet history!

If he is also alive, there is a chance he is not even in the U.S. anymore.
SABBM

:goodpost:

I thought this had already been done with both parents and maybe the other two, as well. Might be getting ahead of myself, though.
IMO
 
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