ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[TheTruthWillOut]

I think at this point I'll just dismiss the the whole shovel story as it seems to come from the POI's only. SB doesn't seem too fussed about it, either.

The biggest issue though is the SD visit could turn out to be a massive red herring if the trip there was upon arriving in Leadore all together for something to eat and drink before all going to the campground at 9:30pm and going straight to bed. Klein's timeline doesn't include the SD visit at this point.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Wow, I had no idea 'Little Man' was so controversial--and, apparently, vomit inducing. I call my son thay all the time, and it is sort of special for us. He is growing up so fast, and I am so proud of the sweet little man he is becoming--it just slips out, and frankly it gives me a warm glow every time. Contrarily, I think 'Bubba' is absurd, unless your son happens to be a 42 year old truck driver with an ever-expanding beer belly.

The nickname thing has never bothered me, but I will admit that it sounds somewhat over-done and ungenuine when they say it.

I have used "little man" and "little dude" with my guys, too. But when I'm talking to them. Not when I'm talking to people ABOUT them. I do find it strange that they're using that name with the press. I'd want my kid's name out there.

 

[zencompass]

I am still stuck on the 8:30 am. beginning of the window of Deorr's disappearance.

That time of the morning indicates to me the time that people would be getting up and greeting each other. That could be the time when one of the parties questioned where Deorr was.

8:00 a.m. indicates to me that possibly something happened to Deorr the evening before. Whereas 10:00 a.m. would mean (to me) that Deorr disappeared "after breakfast" or at least after the other parties saw him.

This is, of course, my own opinion. But the 8:00 a.m. does baffle me as to why that particular time was stated as the beginning of the timeline that Deorr was "missing".

I wish I knew whether Deorr was at the Silver Dollar the evening before. Would one of you kind people point me towards any mentioning that the child was there? Thanks so much in advance!

 

[forsaken]

Wow, I had no idea 'Little Man' was so controversial--and, apparently, vomit inducing. I call my son thay all the time, and it is sort of special for us. He is growing up so fast, and I am so proud of the sweet little man he is becoming--it just slips out, and frankly it gives me a warm glow every time. Contrarily, I think 'Bubba' is absurd, unless your son happens to be a 42 year old truck driver with an ever-expanding beer belly.

The nickname thing has never bothered me, but I will admit that it sounds somewhat over-done and ungenuine when they say it.

It doesn't matter if they called him bubba, little man, buttercup.

1. It's that they avoid using his name (DeOrr) = distancing language.
2. The amount of "little man" said = showing audience that they have a nickname for DeOrr (why do they need to convince the public?).

This also reminds me how they put dad's sad face picture on missing child flyer. That's the first time I've seen in any missing persons flyers.

add: lol my post is similar to rayemonde. rayemonde's post explains it beautifully.

 

[CanadianWells]

Wow, I had no idea 'Little Man' was so controversial--and, apparently, vomit inducing. I call my son thay all the time, and it is sort of special for us. He is growing up so fast, and I am so proud of the sweet little man he is becoming--it just slips out, and frankly it gives me a warm glow every time. Contrarily, I think 'Bubba' is absurd, unless your son happens to be a 42 year old truck driver with an ever-expanding beer belly.

The nickname thing has never bothered me, but I will admit that it sounds somewhat over-done and ungenuine when they say it.

LOL about bubba. I'm sorry if we offended you. As I mentioned, I shouldn't talk since we call our daughter Bubbagirl-- but where I'm from baba or bubba is the same as baby. I have friends in the states who think it's disgusting to call her that, so I know how it feels. This is why the nickname discussions confuse me-- they're so personal and not really something to judge, imho.

eta: I wish I'd never replied about the nicknames earlier. I can see what everyone's saying, but I don't fully agree. I can see situations where using his nickname and clarifying that they do would be appropriate, as I mentioned it would be in a case where my daughter went missing not knowing her name as well as her nickname. Don't get me wrong, I have major issues with the parents' behaviour, this just isn't one of them. I also don't think I'm right; just pointed it out for devil's advocate. I don't think the case hinges on this, so I wish I'd never said anything. Lol. I'm back to lurking until there's something factual to discuss in this case.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Exactly, I think that's the point... No one is saying there's anything wrong with nicknames in themselves, or judging anyone here for having nicknames for their own kid, but the way those two use the nickname doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

I feel the same as I would if the husband of a missing woman was on TV pleading for the return of "darling" or "babes" or "sweetypumpkin" or whatever and avoiding using her real name... It just seems really ridiculous and inappropriate to me. And if that husband was actually a suspect in his wife's disappearance - I would find it nauseating. As I do in DeOrr's case.

:goodpost:

 

[zencompass]

Hey CanadianWells!

Keep posting!

At one point you were contemplating a theory about the store.

The store truly baffles me so I would love to hear your ideas about it. Only if you want to discuss it. You may want to keep it to yourself for the time being. I just wanted to say that I learn a lot from your posts. Thank you

 

[CanadianWells]

Hey CanadianWells!

Keep posting!

At one point you were contemplating a theory about the store.

The store truly baffles me so I would love to hear your ideas about it. Only if you want to discuss it. You may want to keep it to yourself for the time being. I just wanted to say that I learn a lot from your posts. Thank you

Thanks very much, zEncompass! I just don't have anything of value to add at this point. My theory about the store was so early, and I've pretty much discounted it as new information has come in. I was thinking maybe VDK had been there with an injured or for other reasons hidden DKjr and didn't want anyone to know that, but I no longer see this as plausible at all. I can't even fathom what happened up there. Nothing makes any sense to me, but I know I don't like the situation or the POIs much at all.

 

[zencompass]

None of this makes sense to me either. That's why I am wondering why 8:00 am. was chosen as the beginning of the timeline that Deorr was missing.

 

[CanadianWells]

None of this makes sense to me either. That's why I am wondering why 8:30 am. was chosen as the beginning of the timeline that Deorr was missing.

agreed, like so many have said before us. Sun comes up early, and ime toddlers wake up early (but I know that's not universal), so it seems like a late wake up time for camping parents to me, but not for the other two. I always wake up early while camping, unless of course we're talking about when I was younger and camping meant partying. I wonder if that's when the other two got up, or what new info has come in opening up that timeframe. It's an odd one to me.

 

[TeaTime]

I thought Klein said the timeline goes back to 8:00am. When did it change to 8:30am?

"Bubba" is nothing more than a nickname which mimics the sound of a toddler saying 'Brother".

Beth Holloway posted missing flyers all over Aruba which depicted a photo of herself and Natalee, so we have seen this before.

I have lost deeply cherished loved ones and couldn't say their names for more than a year after their passing. No one knows how grief will affect them until it happens and it is unique to us all, so they get a pass on nicknames. Not that they get a full pass on everything but, this particular issue just doesn't add anything to the case one way or the other for me.

 

[neesaki]

I think at this point I'll just dismiss the the whole shovel story as it seems to come from the POI's only. SB doesn't seem too fussed about it, either.

The biggest issue though is the SD visit could turn out to be a massive red herring if the trip there was upon arriving in Leadore all together for something to eat and drink before all going to the campground at 9:30pm and going straight to bed. Klein's timeline doesn't include the SD visit at this point.

I do agree on the shovel with a so-called hair on it, I don't think that actually happened, JMO. I'm not sure what to think of the Silver Dollar except that according to Klein someone in the party was there, if not all four, then it seems more likely to me, IMO, that it was JM and VDK. During that time where was Deorr and who was he with ? All we know is children aren't allowed in the bar so he wasn't there.

If he went on up to camp with GGP maybe the plan was for him to sleep with him in his trailer. That actually makes sense to me if mom & dad stayed out late having a couple of drinks as an older GGP probably turns in rather early, closer to a toddler's sleep schedule. Given this scenario, could it be that when the parents made it to the campground, the baby was already down for the night in the trailer.

I keep thinking of Klein's statement in his KID interview, and don't quite know what to think of it. It's at around the 2:30 - 2:40 mark :

http://590kid.com/2016/01/28/former-deorr-kunz-investigator/

"in the end when this true story comes out, I think there's going to be some people who raise their eyebrows a little bit, and be a little bit embarassed".

 

[Butler]

I give the parents zero breaks but what you say makes good sense. I agree some people made too big of a deal about VDK saying hauling down the road. From everything we've heard no one is actually hauling down that road unless 10 MPH is hauling. Also both parents are quite young so I'm sure they pepper in plenty of local slang in their language. Basically what I'm saying is I'm willing to overlook some peculiar phrases as local speech, what I'm not willing to overlook of course is their complete failure to actually provide useful information about their "missing" toddler.

I am of the mindset that as soon as the area thaws LE is going to search some very specific areas and probably recover remains. My understanding is it can be quite time consuming for LE to get cell phone records/pings from certain carriers so that might have delayed the process some. I bet they have a map with circles on it all ready for spring. I don't mean to come across as cold but once the remains are found I think we'll see arrests and justice begin to be served.

I didn't intend to imply the parents should get a break if they are indeed responsible for this poor child's death. I just wanted to explain there are phases and words they are using that are regional slang and people shouldn't read too much into the words.

I haven't made up my mind yet on level of culpability the parents have in this disappearance of DeOrr. JMO - Whatever did happen, happened at or near the campsite and that GGP & IR are not involved.

This is an excellent point! I'm in SE Idaho & we have a pretty unique pattern & manner of speech. In my international travels a lot of people have mistaken me to be from the deep southern US states. In the southern US I was told I sound very Canadian. My east coast friends have described my speech as a combo Californian/Southern. Those are all very stereotypical patterns of speech, I'm sure YouTube has great examples of each. I can almost hear the southern accent myself sometimes. For example phonetically say "still" instead of "steel". Too much emphasis has been placed on phrasing and words that typical here. Not a criticism of the discussion, just a point that may help refine it in the future.

Exactly

 

[OSpyder]

Hmmm... Nessaki, I forgot about that part of Klein's interview. Now you've got ME thinking! :waitasec:

 

[TeaTime]

Who will be embarrassed when the true story comes out? What is there to be embarrassed about when we are talking about a missing and presumed deceased baby?

What does 'raise their eyebrows a little bit" mean?

Klein uses odd words and phrases that make little sense sometimes - eh?

As for the shovel, it is something that most campers have with them so it doesn't raise any flags for me and I don't think anyone saw hair on it then took it out from where it was without showing it to LE and let the hair blow away.

 

[OSpyder]

Who will be embarrassed when the true story comes out? What is there to be embarrassed about when we are talking about a missing and presumed deceased baby?

What does 'raise their eyebrows a little bit" mean?

Klein uses odd words and phrases that make little sense sometimes - eh?

Now I just keep picturing this intense 7 month mystery turning into an M. Night Shyamalan "twist" where everybody kinda looks at each other and says, "THAT''S IT?[emoji53]"

 

[desert-blue]

Now I just keep picturing this intense 7 month mystery turning into an M. Night Shyamalan "twist" where everybody kinda looks at each other and says, "THAT''S IT?[emoji53]"

Klein also said this:

"Our firm has done over 900 missing children’s cases and we’ve been successful at over 90 percent of those cases. This is kind of one of those cases that matches a few that we’ve done before but there are some elements to this case that, right when you think you’ve seen it all, you haven’t. I would probably classify this case as being one of those where, we thought we’d seen it all, but now it’s a little bit different."

I wish we knew what he meant....

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

@TeaTime

I hope he's just referring to the "1%" on SM. Those with crazy theories or nasty trolls that don't care about any case.

 

[zencompass]

I thought Klein said the timeline goes back to 8:00am. When did it change to 8:30am?

It didn't change to 8:30 a.m. I thought I was typing 8:00 a.m. - guess I wasn't paying attention.

 

[OSpyder]

Klein also said this:

"Our firm has done over 900 missing children’s cases and we’ve been successful at over 90 percent of those cases. This is kind of one of those cases that matches a few that we’ve done before but there are some elements to this case that, right when you think you’ve seen it all, you haven’t. I would probably classify this case as being one of those where, we thought we’d seen it all, but now it’s a little bit different."

I wish we knew what he meant....

^^ THIS!! I want to know too!! TeaTime just took the words right out of my mouth. The part I am most struck by is the "maybe even embarrassed" part. It absolutely makes sense, yet it makes absolutely no sense at the same time.