ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[Mickshawn]

Well I've been following Malik Drummond's case too, and the dad borrowed his brother's vehicle to dispose of the body (he brother didn't realise why he wanted it AFAIK!), and left his phone at home so the pings wouldn't give him away. I figured if he knew to do that, J amd V would probably think to do that too...

Wow and YUCK!

 

[pepelepolecat]

I cant imgine covering for anyone but spouses do it all the time. there are many sexually abused children ( for example) being molested by a parent or step parent. The mom knows.. does nothing.

I dont know what happened to Deorr. The mom looks like she is in a fog. The dad is just an *advertiser censored* (imo of course) and honestly, i am not sure they are smart enough to cook up a story that has prevailed all this time. Maybe they "think" they know what happened but really dont? Maybe one knows and the other doesnt but suspects? Let's face it.. they are still free and walking among us. The cops just dont have enough ( or anything) perhaps, beyond failed polys and weird behavioral analysis. Maybe their other evidence was submitted and yielded NOTHING! I predict cold case OR if someone is arrested without a body being found no jury will convict them. There will always be reasonable doubt i.e a wild animal, a baby who wandered off and drowned etc. IMO, be prepared to be disappointed with the eventual outcome. JMO

Their story really hasn't prevailed all this time. SB said it has changed multiple times. If they played a role in whatever happened and hid him, the only thing they really HAVE to do is hide him well enough that people can't find him until it's too late to figure out what happened. And I'd think that wouldn't be all that hard in that particular area.

 

[zencompass]

I wonder if the mobile phones will come into play or not. Pings have been mentioned in passing but I wonder if there is anything damning?

I think SB has said all four handed the phones in but I'm not sure when? JM may possibly have had a mobile in her pocket in the EIN interview on the 13th July but could have been a replacement/borrowed phone I guess. If nothing else, may be the ping and/or GPS data disprove the whole 1:00-1:30pm exploring trip?

Brilliant!

I agree that the F.B.I. and/or the police can determine which cell towers the phones pinged to and from as well as texts sent to numbers from any and all of the phones from the service providers. It is amazing how the police can track burner phones as well.

 

[Rayemonde]

I just had another thought about parents covering for each other... Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that JM had put a "life event" on fb for the day she met Vernal, and had written that it was the best day of her life... The births of her children didn't get any such special mention on fb (not publically, at least). If Vernal did something to DeOrr maybe she wouldn't want to lose him to prison, so she would cover for him. Maybe he was the most important thing in her life - more important than phoning an ambulance for her child, or giving him a decent funeral.

 

[Rayemonde]

Or maybe she wanted V all to herself again, and decided to get rid of DeOrr

 

[zencompass]

Jessica must have been co-parenting her other children - in some way.

I know the lengths that some parents go to with the intent to maintain some level of connection with their children who are living with a previous partner.

Some of them have parents who even mortgage part of their homes to provide money for lawyers to go to court so that they can, together with their adult child, visit with their grandchildren as well. There are some grandparents who do this on their own or even contact the previous partner because they would love to share in their grandchildren's lives - even just birthdays or graduations. Just to keep the contact going.

Grandparents are known to attend "supervised" visits when that is the case because they are their grandchildren.

I just don't understand this. I saw the video wherein her parents were pleading to have DeOrr back with his mother. Maybe they remain in touch with their other two grandchildren. I, of course, am not privy to this. I only hope that Jessica's parents remain close to her other children because one grandchild would never be considered more important than others - regardless of any situation.

Children adore their grandparents and grandchildren are gems to be loved.

Just my opinion.

 

[Timekeeper65]

Brilliant!

I agree that the F.B.I. and even the police can determine which cell towers the phones pinged to and from as well as texts sent to numbers from any and all of the phones. It is amazing how the police can track burner phones as well.

This may be the only hope of finding DK. It's been 7 months now. The two people (suspects) who should have loved him and taken care of him, have found a way to sleep at night, and not given info so that DK can be brought to his final resting place with dignity.

The thought of him out "there" somewhere is just awful.

 

[zencompass]

This may be the only hope of finding DK. It's been 7 months now. The two people (suspects) who should have loved him and taken care of him, have found a way to sleep at night, and not given info so that DK can be brought to his final resting place with dignity.

The thought of him out "there" somewhere is just awful.

I agree. It saddens my heart as well.

 

[persimmon]

LE has repeatedly stated that they do not believe DeOrr is in the area around the campsite. One tool LE could use to possibly locate a body would be a gps tracking device since its statistically likely a criminal will return to the scene of a crime or monitor the area where a body was disposed of. Just a few years ago the Supreme Court ruled that LE must obtain a search warrant to plant such a device. The move to announcing the parents as suspects may have had several purposes. LE appears to have probable cause which gives them grounds for obtaining search warrants for using all types of technology to solve crimes. The parents do not have a constitutional right to know this because roads are public land. The same is true for cell phone monitoring. They could even track VDK work truck if they chose. Available technology will enable LE to solve crimes that may have otherwise turned cold. Lets hope there they are making use of some of these modern tools.

 

[KatieLiz]

Phew. Well, I've spent since Christmas trying to read through all of these threads. I came late to this one and wanted to read it.... I didn't realize how many threads there would be by the time I caught up! I'm only one thread behind but I had to jump ahead to ask a question. Please excuse me if its been covered and I somehow missed it.... I've read tens of thousands of posts to get to here finally.

First let me say I have a 2 1/2 year old and this case has devastated me.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows if DK and JM's home was searched by police before they were ever allowed to leave the campground and go home. I know that they live with DK's dad, but I just want to know if police were able to get an idea of living conditions in their home, or gather any possible evidence there, before anyone was able to go home? Thank you in advance

 

[zencompass]

Welcome KatieLiz and great question! I do not know the answer to this but likely someone else on this thread does. I will search for this as well.

 

[kammiemc]

Phew. Well, I've spent since Christmas trying to read through all of these threads. I came late to this one and wanted to read it.... I didn't realize how many threads there would be by the time I caught up! I'm only one thread behind but I had to jump ahead to ask a question. Please excuse me if its been covered and I somehow missed it.... I've read tens of thousands of posts to get to here finally.

First let me say I have a 2 1/2 year old and this case has devastated me.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows if DK and JM's home was searched by police before they were ever allowed to leave the campground and go home. I know that they live with DK's dad, but I just want to know if police were able to get an idea of living conditions in their home, or gather any possible evidence there, before anyone was able to go home? Thank you in advance

I wouldn't take as fact that they lived with DK's dad at the time of the disappearance at all!!!!!!!!


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[kammiemc]

LE has repeatedly stated that they do not believe DeOrr is in the area around the campsite. One tool LE could use to possibly locate a body would be a gps tracking device since its statistically likely a criminal will return to the scene of a crime or monitor the area where a body was disposed of. Just a few years ago the Supreme Court ruled that LE must obtain a search warrant to plant such a device. The move to announcing the parents as suspects may have had several purposes. LE appears to have probable cause which gives them grounds for obtaining search warrants for using all types of technology to solve crimes. The parents do not have a constitutional right to know this because roads are public land. The same is true for cell phone monitoring. They could even track VDK work truck if they chose. Available technology will enable LE to solve crimes that may have otherwise turned cold. Lets hope there they are making use of some of these modern tools.

That brings up a good question. We know when LE told the public that the parents are the suspects, but I wonder when he determined that and shared it with judges, etc.? And when he shared it with the parents, themselves? Could have been months ago.


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[KatieLiz]

I wouldn't take as fact that they lived with DK's dad at the time of the disappearance at all!!!!!!!!


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Good point it seems we can't take anything as "fact" at this point. Nothing makes sense.

I just want to know that wherever they lived with little Deorr was searched. I want to know if it was clean? Were dirty diapers everywhere? What were his sleeping quarters like? The police would be able to see if there were previous signs of neglect. Unless a parent or grandparent had the chance to get in there and clean up first.

Also, if anything was pre planned there would be evidence. Be it a pre-planned camping trip, or a pre-planned "accident", you would think there would be evidence there. I know when we pack for a camping trip, there would be piles of stuff in my living room, stuff I decided we didn't need to take and just left to put away upon our return. Was there evidence of Thorough planning and packing? With my two and a half year old I would have to pack a big bag of Toys and books, I would need lots of extra clothes for her, diapers, food, bottles, etc.

Sorry, I know this has been covered and we all basically agree nothing makes sense. I know the police can't be transparent with us, especially while building a case.... But this curiosity is hard to deal with. All I can say is that if my child: was abducted, wandered off, went missing.... I would be incredibly forthcoming and transparent. I would make sure everything added up. I can't judge how they reacted and their emotions because everyone reacts differently, but now, 7 months later... This would be my life. This would Be all consuming. Not sharing a couple posts on my FB a few times a month. People would be so sick of my face and my tears on the news. They have been acting like suspects since long before they were named as such. Innocent parents don't care about the accusations, they stay out there and keep the story going in the media. (The McCanns, The Smarts...)

 

[Timekeeper65]

Phew. Well, I've spent since Christmas trying to read through all of these threads. I came late to this one and wanted to read it.... I didn't realize how many threads there would be by the time I caught up! I'm only one thread behind but I had to jump ahead to ask a question. Please excuse me if its been covered and I somehow missed it.... I've read tens of thousands of posts to get to here finally.

First let me say I have a 2 1/2 year old and this case has devastated me.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows if DK and JM's home was searched by police before they were ever allowed to leave the campground and go home. I know that they live with DK's dad, but I just want to know if police were able to get an idea of living conditions in their home, or gather any possible evidence there, before anyone was able to go home? Thank you in advance

Bravo, KatieLiz, almost there! Been there, done that. But it is worthwhile to read every single post on these threads.

I don't know the answer to your question and I have read every single thing posted on these threads.

 

[persimmon]

Good point it seems we can't take anything as "fact" at this point. Nothing makes sense.

I just want to know that wherever they lived with little Deorr was searched. I want to know if it was clean? Were dirty diapers everywhere? What were his sleeping quarters like? The police would be able to see if there were previous signs of neglect. Unless a parent or grandparent had the chance to get in there and clean up first.

Also, if anything was pre planned there would be evidence. Be it a pre-planned camping trip, or a pre-planned "accident", you would think there would be evidence there. I know when we pack for a camping trip, there would be piles of stuff in my living room, stuff I decided we didn't need to take and just left to put away upon our return. Was there evidence of Thorough planning and packing? With my two and a half year old I would have to pack a big bag of Toys and books, I would need lots of extra clothes for her, diapers, food, bottles, etc.

Sorry, I know this has been covered and we all basically agree nothing makes sense. I know the police can't be transparent with us, especially while building a case.... But this curiosity is hard to deal with. All I can say is that if my child: was abducted, wandered off, went missing.... I would be incredibly forthcoming and transparent. I would make sure everything added up. I can't judge how they reacted and their emotions because everyone reacts differently, but now, 7 months later... This would be my life. This would Be all consuming. Not sharing a couple posts on my FB a few times a month. People would be so sick of my face and my tears on the news. They have been acting like suspects since long before they were named as such. Innocent parents don't care about the accusations, they stay out there and keep the story going in the media. (The McCanns, The Smarts...)

To the best of my knowledge, we only know via SB that their home and cars have been searched multiple times. He explained away the multiple by saying they wanted to be very thorough. I believe it was VDKs father who gave us the idea they resided with him but I will try to track it down. I will say that judging by a recent FB comment made by VDK (not his father ..confusing) that they are not living with him now.

Searches of their property happened early on but I don't think we can pinpoint the exact day and determine if the parents had not been back to the location. I look at all the family and friend support they seem to have and deduce that DeOrr appeared to be living under normal conditions. I can find no instances of anybody close to the couple calling into question their parenting or lifestyle. In missing children cases where parents are involved and conditions are dangerous, we often hear that family or friends had tried to intervene, called CPS, or at the very least unnamed sources informing LE of known neglect. So far, nothing points to domestic instability except perhaps the fact that JM did not have custody of her other two children, and that is pure conjecture because there could be a reasonable explanation.

 

[persimmon]

That brings up a good question. We know when LE told the public that the parents are the suspects, but I wonder when he determined that and shared it with judges, etc.? And when he shared it with the parents, themselves? Could have been months ago.


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If we take VDKs fathers word as fact, and I do, then we know they did not know they were suspects until SB announced that fact to the public. There is a chance he informed the couple and they kept that to themselves but these seem like people who are extremely close to immediate family so I tend to doubt that.

 

[minnermomma]

Well I've been following Malik Drummond's case too, and the dad borrowed his brother's vehicle to dispose of the body (he brother didn't realise why he wanted it AFAIK!), and left his phone at home so the pings wouldn't give him away. I figured if he knew to do that, J amd V would probably think to do that too...

After lurking for a long while, following 2 other local cases (Cassie Compton and Beverly Carter), it was little Malik that finally got me on board with WS. Then here came Little babies, DeOrr and Lonzie Barton and I couldn't leave.

Cell phones and the perps knowledge of them has been VERY vital in retrospect now in many cases. Malik's bio dad knew to leave his at home for his run and Rueben knew to turn his off while he dumped out his precious cargo like trash too.

I guess I'm just hoping that LE/FBI have been able to find SOMETHING on the pois' devices that can help them locate little DeOrr. I'm afraid he's gonna wind up like the others ...out in the elements far too long to determine COD or signs of abuse, which I'm sure is what they meant to happen.

Hope I'm making any kind of sense, so many thoughts and feelings in my head today for some reason. Adding little baby Titus Tackett to these WS forums now, has me wondering why the Big Man has the need for so many precious 2-3 year old baby boys back?? A ball team, choir ..I don't know and will never understand.

Picturing them all playing together, loved and in no more pain or grief makes me feel a little better. I have so much empathy for the loved ones who truly cared for these darlings and know they will always question, why didn't I see or do something that might have prevented this tragedy. MOO

 

[persimmon]

I also think that hiring Klein's company demonstrates that the parents were unaware that they were suspects. If they had hired Klein with the knowledge they were suspects, then recent privacy legislation would make most of his findings inadmissable whether or not they favored the parents. Klein would therefore be breaking the law by publically sharing any of the information obtained. Clearly, he is sharing it with the public and LE so he is not bound by the the stated or implied use of his findings in subsequent litigation. Undoubtedly, he is aware of those laws and that priviledge but they likely were not because if they were all they needed to do was mention LEs suspicions and the possibility that their independent findings could counter those of LEs. If they had engaged in such a conversation with Klein, then he would not be talking and releasing information. When PI reports and findings have been challenged in criminal and civil proceedings, the courts have repeatedly ruled based on whether the PI had prior knowledge of a clients intent to possibly use findings in their defense should they be charged with any crime.

 

[kshultz06082]

True, but they nor LE ever called him out as an individual. Instead they generalised the whole of SM as a problem. Klein did do something about him and it seems to have reduced/stopped.

As for JM's behaviour/body language etc I do have an opinion/gut feeling it isn't right, but that means nothing. What I find more telling is that on the day they were declared suspects EIN posted this as the headline picture:

View attachment 88991

To post that still from all the way back on August 11th.....http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...ruthful-are-suspects-in-childs-disappearance/

I am quite a bit behind and this question may have already been asked, but other than the look on JM's face, what do you find suspicious about using that picture?