ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

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Could be nothing but could possibly be hiding his bare arms for some reason?

Gotcha. Thanks.
One would think though since it was hot out and if he was trying to hide his arms that he would have at least tossed the sweatshirt and opted for a lightweight long-sleeved t-shirt. I think he was wearing it because of the bright color. Playing SAR guy, ya know.
 
He has bare arms here. If you look closely, he has a lot of strange marks on his arms. Some thought they were track marks, but I heard a rumour that he had a tattoo on that one arm, and was getting it removed. And indeed, there is a pic of him on his Facebook page that shows he has a tattoo there.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/kunz-family-investigator-everything-points-to-an-abduction/

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...3102339968&set=ecnf.100003102339968&source=49

Can anyone make out what the tat is? Just curious as to why he'd be having it removed. Maybe it's related to his ex-wife or something.
 
Gotcha. Thanks.
One would think though since it was hot out and if he was trying to hide his arms that he would have at least tossed the sweatshirt and opted for a lightweight long-sleeved t-shirt. I think he was wearing it because of the bright color. Playing SAR guy, ya know.

Playing SAR guy is a possibility since he seems so taken with them and their tech. On the other hand, it pays to have your arms covered when riding an ATV through brush to protect yourself and it is colder when riding. I see nothing strange about it, except maybe the color and LE/SAR may have wanted him to wear it. Which brings up another good point. Was that orange sweatshirt his or did someone loan it to him. It's rather an odd color, I think, for anyone to have in their wardrobe unless they're hunters.

:cow:
 
Nothing here is as "expected". Besides, it SURELY wouldn't be in their best interests if they WERE to stay on the line. I'm sure there were other things for them to do . . .

If it is true LE/SAR weren't at the scene for ~90 minutes then I'm sure they're very interested in this time period. I also wonder if Klein really does have a number of witnesses, some are SAR personnel from the immediate days after?

Could you expand on the not "expected"? Are you just referring to JM here or dispatch too?
 
Playing SAR guy is a possibility since he seems so taken with them and their tech. On the other hand, it pays to have your arms covered when riding an ATV through brush to protect yourself and it is colder when riding. I see nothing strange about it, except maybe the color and LE/SAR may have wanted him to wear it. Which brings up another good point. Was that orange sweatshirt his or did someone loan it to him. It's rather an odd color, I think, for anyone to have in their wardrobe unless they're hunters.

:cow:

We are hunters and have lots of flo colored and camo clothing, both for casual wear and that used for hunting.
 
Playing SAR guy is a possibility since he seems so taken with them and their tech. On the other hand, it pays to have your arms covered when riding an ATV through brush to protect yourself and it is colder when riding. I see nothing strange about it, except maybe the color and LE/SAR may have wanted him to wear it. Which brings up another good point. Was that orange sweatshirt his or did someone loan it to him. It's rather an odd color, I think, for anyone to have in their wardrobe unless they're hunters.

:cow:

Or they like bright colors.
:moo:

But I suspect he was wearing it for whatever searching he was doing.
 
If it is true LE/SAR weren't at the scene for ~90 minutes then I'm sure they're very interested in this time period.
RSBM=

~ 90 minutes is a very long time to wait for help. Can't relate to these parents myself at all, but what on earth would you do for those one and a half hours waiting? Run around in "dead panic" again, go further afield, start wading in the creek?
This does seem a very important and interesting time period here that must need clarifying. imo.
 
If it is true LE/SAR weren't at the scene for ~90 minutes then I'm sure they're very interested in this time period. I also wonder if Klein really does have a number of witnesses, some are SAR personnel from the immediate days after?

Could you expand on the not "expected"? Are you just referring to JM here or dispatch too?

We can't expect the parents to act like "normal" people would in this case. I mean, no calls back to 911 to ask when they were coming? etc etc. (Nevermind NOT staying on the line . . . even to be "talked down" by dispatch)
 
We can't expect the parents to act like "normal" people would in this case. I mean, no calls back to 911 to ask when they were coming? etc etc. (Nevermind NOT staying on the line . . . even to be "talked down" by dispatch)

Someone said it was like she was ordering pizza. "Hi, I've lost my kid - can you send help? K Thanks Bye." (Even I ask how long it will be when I order pizza...)
 
Here's an interesting story about a woman who once called 911 for help in Leadore:

When she was a young mother, her 3-year-old daughter fell from the attic to the ground floor during construction on the family’s Leadore home. The California native dialed 911 and was told to call someone in the area who was an EMT.

“I was from the city. I had no idea what that meant,” she said.

Findley drove at top speed to a local café, where she saw a Leadore store owner in the parking lot.

“He saw the look on my face and said, ‘What is wrong?’” Findley said.

A short time later, volunteer EMTs were at her home, where they loaded up the child and transported her to the hospital in Salmon.The toddler recovered from her injuries.

http://www.postregister.com/article...m-leads-community’s-volunteer-fire-department
 
Gotcha. Thanks.
One would think though since it was hot out and if he was trying to hide his arms that he would have at least tossed the sweatshirt and opted for a lightweight long-sleeved t-shirt. I think he was wearing it because of the bright color. Playing SAR guy, ya know.
It probably is a S/R thing, but orange is popular around here due to BSU & ISU as well. Both universities have orange colors & some people are weirdly excited about the football teams.
 
Gotcha. Thanks.
One would think though since it was hot out and if he was trying to hide his arms that he would have at least tossed the sweatshirt and opted for a lightweight long-sleeved t-shirt. I think he was wearing it because of the bright color. Playing SAR guy, ya know.


Sure, because everyone knows it's important to wear bright colors in the woods, in case you get lost. Unless you're a helpless two year old, apparently.


Can anyone make out what the tat is? Just curious as to why he'd be having it removed. Maybe it's related to his ex-wife or something.

Looks like a stylized lion to me. No idea what the story behind it is.
 
I think it would be interesting to hear SAR and LE and ambulance crews takes on how distraught or not the family appeared to be when they finally arrived.
 
RSBM=

~ 90 minutes is a very long time to wait for help. Can't relate to these parents myself at all, but what on earth would you do for those one and a half hours waiting? Run around in "dead panic" again, go further afield, start wading in the creek?
This does seem a very important and interesting time period here that must need clarifying. imo.

My husband and I spend a lot of time in remote areas. We've never had an emergency, but some friends have. In addition, my husband is trained in backcountry search and rescue. The general protocol for remote emergencies is to call for help, then continue your own search until help arrives. If you find your missing party and they are injured, you do what is necessary to stabilize them until SAR arrives. So, if we found ourselves in an emergency situation, yes, we would continue searching. I have no idea what JM and VDK did during this time, but LE and SAR would arrive with the expectation that the parents had continued searching.

Also, when you are in a remote area, the dispatcher does not typically keep you on the line. They don't want your cellphone battery to die, because if SAR can't find you, they will need to call you and get better information on your location. Most cellphones now have GPS and they also use those coordinates to find you. They will ask you to call back if your situation changes (for example: you found your missing party, now they need to know about injuries, your new location, etc.).

I realize many posters here don't have experience in remote areas, so I'm just clarifying what the usual procedure is. It's NOTHING like reporting an emergency from your home or even within a town or city. When you are in a remote area, you know that help is a long way off, and you know that you have to rely upon yourself and the rest of your party to address emergency situations. You might be amazed at some of the survival stories that should surely have resulted in tragedy.

All that said, I think the parents have been named suspects for good reason. I just don't have alarm bells ringing based on them not staying on the line or not calling 911 every 10 minutes wondering when help is going to arrive. I always assumed they were searching while waiting for SAR, but now that they are suspects, I definitely wonder what they did while waiting. If they wanted GGP and IR to believe their "he just disappeared" story, they would have had to at least faked a search, but that doesn't mean they didn't do something else while faking it (could have been hiding evidence, for example).
 
Good post LookingForClues, thank you.
Would Le/SAR have told the parents how long it would be before they arrived I wonder ??
Any knowledge of the normal response to this sort of call - is it "We are on the way" but of course no time given ?
Also, I'd like to ask if the EMT referred to above post are what in the UK we call "First Responders" ?

ETA = here in England I live in a tiny village 50 miles from the nearest hospital. We rely on the Air Ambulance in emergencies, but do not have local police. Nearest police is at least 20 miles away and only a local service, not 24 hrs.
Nothing like the enormous distances in the USA, I'm just personally trying to comprehend the differences. :thinking:
 
Ths is true. It has always been referred to as a rumor, but I think some people must think there is some truth to it, because many have speculated that maybe this happened on Thurs night. I think it was a rumor that the parents tried to twist to their advantage. Because the only person on earth who I know has said this rumor was partly true was DK and we all know that he has a little lying problem--ok, kind of a really big lying problem!

MOO: I think that a lot of the time, the first story that people hear is the one that gets embedded in their brain. As more information (or different information) comes out later, they try to fit it into what they already "know" -- even if what they "know" isn't consistent with the later information. It can be difficult to throw out some story that's already made its way into your brain as something that actually happened.
 
Good post LookingForClues, thank you.
Would Le/SAR have told the parents how long it would be before they arrived I wonder ??
Any knowledge of the normal response to this sort of call - is it "We are on the way" but of course no time given ?
Also, I'd like to ask if the EMT referred to above post are what in the UK we call "First Responders" ?

I'm glad my post was helpful. :)

I'll try to answer your questions.

Sometimes the 911 dispatcher will tell the caller an approximate arrival time, but not always. It depends on whether they can reach SAR/LE while they still have the caller on the line, and if SAR/LE can give an approximate response time. The thing about SAR is they are volunteers, and are usually responding to a call from wherever they work. So they often don't arrive all at the same time, since they are coming from different places. It's possible the first to respond will go directly to the scene, but often they all assemble in one place and then respond as a unit. Does that make sense? It depends on the protocol for that SAR team. Chances are the dispatcher at least will say something general, like "it will take at least 30 minutes" or "at least an hour" based solely on the typical response time to that area. Especially SAR will have been called to that general area many times over the years, so they have an idea of how long it will probably take. I have no idea whether I just confused you or not!

Yes, EMTS are like your first responders. And in more remote locations, many EMTS are also members of SAR.
 
Could be nothing but could possibly be hiding his bare arms for some reason?

This is mostly why I was curious about the hunter orange sweatshirt. I thought that maybe he was hiding bruising or even DNA? My dad and grandfather are avid hunters in ID and I've never seen them wear hunter orange (stupid I know) because it's not required in ID. That's not in anyway implying other wouldn't wear it hunting or have it in their wardrobe. I just wanted to point out that ID has zero regulations for it. I guess the sports team could be a reason. I also see the possibility of wearing it while 4 wheeling but it seems a little out of place when Nate's interviewing them in the room that I'm assuming is back in town at ID Falls. Trying to blend in with SAR is a good theory too.

Here's the link for ID hunter orange rules:
http://www.ihea.com/hunting-and-shooting/requirements/hunter-orange-requirements
 
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