ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #3

[Marisa714]

This is along the lines of what I've been thinking too. I never once thought a cougar waltzed into camp, leaped over the trucks, stepped on GGP's foot, swatted GGP's friend, trampled the tents, then grabbed Deorr. Common sense would tell one that didn't happen.

A cougar was once observed jumping 12 feet into a tree with a deer in its mouth. They can kill prey 7 times their weight and can take down moose. (http://www.ipuma.org/site/pumas/) One jumping into a tree with a toddler or carrying off one without leaving evidence isn't improbable. I'm guessing if Deorr's disappearance is cougar related then it was a young cougar looking for his own territory and in a desperate state, which would make him/her more willing to chance being near both the wolf pack and humans.

Another unfortunate possibility is a former pet cougar that's been released into the wild and is unafraid of humans and struggling to survive. We have this problem in Missouri on occasion (I haven't changed my profile to my new state). Owning large exotic animals isn't regulated much. I personally think this is a stretch, but it's remotely possible.

By the way, an interesting fact some of you may not know is that mountain lions can't roar but they do purr just like domesticated cats.

teeandcee-I agree that if this was an attack by a cougar it was a young cougar who was desperate for food; I don't think an attack by an animal is impossible but unlikely. There was plenty of water around the area which typically brings in all kinds of animals for the predators to feast on. Female pumas also "scream" (interesting fact-to me anyway lol).

I wonder if it's possible the parents may have had music playing from the truck with the doors open? A lot of my friends do that when we go camping or drive out to a spot to ride dirt bikes. They finally get to their camping spot, they were looking forward to relaxing...went for a little stroll to scope out the place while DeOrr was with ggpa. Next thing they know their world is turned upside down and nobody heard anything b/c the music was on. I love listening to music, even while I'm camping sometimes. I know this is purely speculation, but it's just an idea-sorry if somebody has already posted this, I don't recall seeing it.

 

[JLSChook]

Its okay - my computer is acting up and I did good to go back and get it - I could feel myself beginning to sweat lol

O/T while I'm at it...can you guys tell me when you say to PM A Mod to ask about something, who do you PM? Any mod? Pick one? Or do you see who is online or wait until one that has been active on the case comes online? TYIA!

Sometimes I just report my own post and ask them a question that way.

 

[SleuthMom]

We don't know that. The parents were only gone for 20 minutes. Are you speculating that grandpa forgot within 20 minutes? If DeOrr was left with him, would grandpa not have seen him walk away? If he looked away briefly as someone else said, why would he think DeOrr was then with the parents? Information is missing that we are not privy to.

Yes, some info is missing. Personally, I would like to find out if great-grandpa knew that he was supposed to watch little Deorr because based on the interview it looks like he did not know but then during the vigil the father talks about a mistake, an adult (indirectly, great-grandpa) turning his head for a minute and our little boy vanishing. It is confusing, I want to know who saw Deorr last.

 

[La Louve]

Its okay - my computer is acting up and I did good to go back and get it - I could feel myself beginning to sweat lol

O/T while I'm at it...can you guys tell me when you say to PM A Mod to ask about something, who do you PM? Any mod? Pick one? Or do you see who is online or wait until one that has been active on the case comes online? TYIA!

click on the dark grey triangle with a white exclamation point inside it, in the lower left corner of the frame for each post. You'll get a popup window where you can type your question to the mods. There may be a mod assigned to this thread who will read the alert, or it may just be whichever mod is available at the moment.

 

[carbuff]

Its okay - my computer is acting up and I did good to go back and get it - I could feel myself beginning to sweat lol

O/T while I'm at it...can you guys tell me when you say to PM A Mod to ask about something, who do you PM? Any mod? Pick one? Or do you see who is online or wait until one that has been active on the case comes online? TYIA!

If it's a question about whether I can post certain information, or how to handle sensitive information, I usually PM the mod who started the thread.

 

[Mickshawn]

This has also been my thought from the get go. How could there possibly be this confusion who a baby is with?? It's a huge gap of info..makes zero sense....How could who has the baby not be crystal clear?

Yes, some info is missing. Personally, I would like to find out if great-grandpa knew that he was supposed to watch little Deorr because based on the interview it looks like he did not know but then during the vigil the father talks about a mistake, an adult (indirectly, great-grandpa) turning his head for a minute and our little boy vanishing. It is confusing, I want to know who saw Deorr last.

 

[Jules71]

We don't know that. The parents were only gone for 20 minutes. Are you speculating that grandpa forgot within 20 minutes? If DeOrr was left with him, would grandpa not have seen him walk away? If he looked away briefly as someone else said, why would he think DeOrr was then with the parents? Information is missing that we are not privy to.

I thought from the interview, dad said it was 10 minutes from the time he/they last saw him until he figured out he was missing.

ETA: From interview:

"Fifty yards away and ten minutes, uh, well, (??) the time we'd, I'd seen him to the point I'd figured out he was gone."

I think the ?? part is 'from'. 'From the time we'd, I'd seen him.'

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[SleuthMom]

For those wondering about the dogs:

Bowerman said Timber Creek terrain is steep and rugged and is a mix of sagebrush and timber. He said given the proven expertise of the dogs the boy should have been found the first day.

http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

 

[Mickshawn]

Unless, there was NO firm communication about who DeOrr was gonna stay with.....

Is it possible that DeOrr DID go with his parents to explore and GGP saw the 3 of them walk off together...hence GGP thought DeOrr WAS with them? (because he was?) My mind is just rambling around...

 

[ClaireNC]

Those news reports are wrong. The Timber Creek runs into the Reservoir at the other end from where the were camping and runs out and away from the reservoir on the side they were on. Water runs downhill. The reservoir is at a higher elevation than the campground.

Here is an aerial image of the reservoir and campsite. It is tilted so the top of the map is the highest elevation. Excuse the rough drawing. The blue line is the Creek flowing into the river at the top and out near the campground. The red "arrow" is where I think they were actually camping. In this image there is a truck with camper parked there. Also looking at the shape of the reservoir, you can see the water runs in at the top in this image and flows out at the bottom forming that long finger-like shape.
(See image below)

This image was taken from this map: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ti...m2!3m1!1s0x5357b2face15292b:0x50f57ef867884c6

Great map. Doesn't the creek also fork out downstream from the reservoir? I thought it also flowed right there where your red arrow is.

That snaky line of trees where the red arrow is indicates to me there is water flowing there.

Sorry about that, I had the line of the creek drawn in the wrong place in post #211. The point I was making about the flow of the creek is still valid, just that the creek runs directly next to the campground.

Here is an adjusted version:

 

[Trident]

Probably not that long for a toddler-sized body.

Or could it be longer if the water is VERY cold, which I believe it might be?

 

[Jules71]

I thought from the interview, dad said it was 10 minutes from the time he/they last saw him until he figured out he was missing.

ETA: From interview:

"Fifty yards away and ten minutes, uh, well, (??) the time we'd, I'd seen him to the point I'd figured out he was gone."

I think the ?? part is 'from'. 'From the time we'd, I'd seen him.'

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Sorry to quote my own post but from this it seems maybe mom didn't see him before they left to explore. Dad says we but changes it to I.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[carbuff]

Unless, there was NO firm communication about who DeOrr was gonna stay with.....

Is it possible that DeOrr DID go with his parents to explore and GGP saw the 3 of them walk off together...hence GGP thought DeOrr WAS with them? (because he was?) My mind is just rambling around...

Yeah, and the parents told him to go back to GGpa, and DeOrr was walking that way and decided to go out to play.

Or he was asleep in the truck and GGpa was sitting by the campfire keeping an eye on him, and when he went to check, he found the kid wasn't in the truck any more and thought, "He must have run after his parents." Which at that point wouldn't be so much that he thought he must have as that he hoped he must have.

Or GGpa saw him running after the parents only a few feet behind and assumed he'd catch up with them, but the parents never heard him over the stream.

I can probably think of a few more possibilities...

 

[ClaireNC]

Sorry to quote my own post but from this it seems maybe mom didn't see him before they left to explore. Dad says we but changes it to I.

Interesting observation that I had not noticed before. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Marisa714]

Or could it be longer if the water is VERY cold, which I believe it might be?

Water at higher altitude is colder, but iirc the altitude was only 6500ft? So I don't know that it would be VERY cold, the sun at higher altitude is incredibly hot.

 

[Jules71]

Interesting observation that I had not noticed before. Thanks for pointing it out.

In fact when he mentions coming back up from the creek he also uses "I" not we. So he last saw little Deorr and he noticed he was missing.

Maybe mom was already out exploring and Deorr Sr went to catch up with her.

Jessica says he was with her grandfather. Maybe that's what she was told but she did not see him with him.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[gitana1]

Has anyone read whether DeOrr was actually left with the great grandfather when the parents went exploring? Was he actually physically LEFT WITH grandpa by his parents? Because I have seen no statements from grandpa except a news story that he thought DeOrr was with the parents. How exactly did that exchange happen with the parents going to explore and who was watching DeOrr? Why would either party think DeOrr was with the other.......? Were any of them certain of his whereabouts? None of that is clear to me from what I have read so far.

Also if dad had DeOrr at the local store around 1:00 and (I read) the blanket was still in the truck when it was discovered DeOrr was missing -- what campsite/what activities occurred after returning from the store? Meaning did he fall asleep in the truck and was left there for a bit?

"Grandpa. We're going to stretch our legs for a bit. Okay?" "Sure! I will be here."

They think grandpa knew "we" meant only the parents and that he would watch te baby. Grandpa thought it meant all three in part because he turned his head for a moment and he when he looked back all three were gone.

That's my possibility.

 

[krig101]

Was it because of the interesting comments below the latest news article? Just needing a clue :thinking:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...on-deorr-kunz-this-will-come-to-a-resolution/

"Investigators aren’t saying anything about the family friend who was also camping."


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[carbuff]

Water at higher altitude is colder, but iirc the altitude was only 6500ft? So I don't know that it would be VERY cold, the sun at higher altitude is incredibly hot.

7600 feet, according to the National Forest website (http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea?recid=76098, in the right-hand column).

 

[leep]

This case is soon going to explode in a bad way, why do all these little kids have to die so needlessly, I think I'm going to stop following missing children cases on here and stick to adults only. I'm afraid this case is going to end up just like most of the other abhorrent case we've followed on here. All JMO