ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[SleuthMom]

You know that is a good point. We have all assumed IR was friends with the great grandfather on the trip (Jessica's grandpa). But maybe he is friends with grandpa Kunz (Deorr senior's dad).

Would have to go back and re-read everything.

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He is a friend of great-grandpa. Why would sheriff question the grandfather numerous times and even go to the scene with him unless he was on the trip? I was just trying to illustrate how they use grandpa and great-grandpa interchangeably at times and can be confusing.

 

[SleuthMom]

Dad drives a truck for a living? Does anyone remember in the long video interview that dad saying something to the effect that the rumors were saying his boss wanted him back at work or something about his boss.. what did that have to do with anything? i thought that was out of context.. anyone? I cant find the video..

The whole interview was bizarre just like this case.

 

[Hatfield]

The way the news has come out is terribly confusing.

Here is another question I have. Why would the sheriff call him "Grandpa"? Is it possible the Sheriff is related to this family?

Its unusual to me that he would say that in an interview. I know we do it here because we did not have names of people at first but for LE to reference people you would think they would reference their name with Sr or something like that.


“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s (been) a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[StormyNights]

It has been reported in these threads that little Deorr lived with his parents and his paternal GF (not the GGF who was camping). I assume then that the paternal GF is very familiar with Deorr.

An inconsistency that bothers me is in the video interview, the dad says that Deorr is "small for his age but he moves pretty good". In this article, little Deorr's paternal GF says (BBM): "If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358

Which is it? Little Deorr could move pretty good or he could barely walk on level ground?

Have 3 kids of my own: I really think they were just saying he is a clumsy toddler. My own son was the same way. He fell a lot, had bumps, bruises and sometimes stitches. It's JMO but I truly think they are just using that to say he is a just a tot whose legs don't go where he wants them to sometimes.

 

[Elainera]

You can find the unedited interview on YouTube. Sorry I haven't figured out how to post links so I hope it doesn't get me in trouble.

Hi Jackeee, to post a link you simply copy the url of the page you want to link to and paste it here.

 

[LookingForClues]

For those of you trying to catch up by reading backwards through this thread to see if you've missed anything important, the first 2 pages of this thread include a time line, reiteration of who was at the campground, and media links. In addition, Bessie created a separate Media and Timeline thread and includes the link in the opening post, though not all of the information has been copied over to that new thread yet.

Who else here feels like they are :juggling: too many pieces of information? :banghead:

 

[Ardie]

Another thing I just thought of with regard to the scent item given to the dog handlers is cigarette smoke. I've read in previous cases that that can screw up a scent item or scent trail. Does anyone know if any of the 4 adults smoke?

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I noticed that Jessica was holding a cigarette in her hand in one of the photos that is in the slideshow video.

 

[Trident]

It is important to note that Mountain Lion hunting in Idaho is conducted with packs of hound dogs trained to follow the sent of the cat until it is treed. They cover large areas of land and key on to animal scent. To have only one cat in any given unit reported as harvested suggests a very low density.

Thing is, I don't believe they had any lion dogs on the hunt for Deorr, did they?

 

[Cardinal47]

According to this article dated 7-24:
"Sheriff Bowerman also says during their search they found a woman scattering the ashes of a relative in the reservoir which he says that may have thrown off the search dogs."

The way this is phrased, it sounds like they found a woman scattering ashes during the search.

I thought I read another article that stated that a "couple" was in that area that day related to the cremains disbursal. Anyone remember that? Wouldn't that imply they were in the area when DeOrr went missing?

Yes I read that too. It was in the article where they said people were reinterviewed. I wondered at the time if the elderly couple were the ones scattering the ashes but that's a leap!

MOO

 

[Marisa714]

Attacks on humans don't necessarily occur when a lion is hungry. A mother with cubs hunts three times more than a single adult male. Mountain lions notoriously hunt for and kill more prey than they can consume. I don't think "statistics" play into the instant disappearance of a small child. The circumstances, IMO, dictate what more than likely happened given the area as well as the behavior of the apex predators in the area. IMO, there's really only two real possibilities. Drowning or mountain lion. The sheriff seems to be waiting for that three-week mark which is when he said a drowned body would surface. I don't believe he was abducted by a human, because that would require the abductor to be as elusive as a mountain lion, and I don't see that as probable, given the area and the circumstances.

BBM

ILOKAL-you have stated several times that 'Mountain lions kill more prey than they can consume', can you please provide a link? TIA! :great:

 

[Hatfield]

You know that is a good point. We have all assumed IR was friends with the great grandfather on the trip (Jessica's grandpa). But maybe he is friends with grandpa Kunz (Deorr senior's dad).

Would have to go back and re-read everything.



I'm sure the friend was great grandfather's friend (the one on the trip). If Jessica, little Deorr and Deorr's dad lived with Deorr Sr. and then they would have met Deorr Sr.'s friend before I would think.

P.S. I have read every post in all 4 the threads. I finally registered so I could talk!

Edit: I see I messed the "quote" up, but don't know how to fix it. Sorry.

:Welcome1:

If you can still edit it, you can add the "end quote" by typing whats at the bottom of all quotes which is a left block quote, followed by slash, followed by QUOTE, followed by right block quote.

I would type it but it wont let me type it because it is looking for the top part...LOL

I may be able to do it with spaces in wrong spot though. it looks like this....

[ / QUOTE ] without any spaces.

You would put that at the end of the part you were quoting

 

[starfire]

Yes I read that too. It was in the article where they said people were reinterviewed. I wondered at the time if the elderly couple were the ones scattering the ashes but that's a leap!

MOO

I read something about the elderly couple, too. I am pretty sure it said they were the only other people in the area when LE started searching on the first day.

 

[Jules71]

This case is so frustrating! There is really nothing left to pick apart imo. I am also frustrated by the absence of press conferences. According to the parents, the child disappeared into thin air in the matter of 10 minutes with them being within 50 yards away. No trace of little Deorr anywhere. He simply vanished.

What else is there to say?

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[CDB]

Thing is, I don't believe they had any lion dogs on the hunt for Deorr, did they?

I do not believe they had any lion dogs on the search. My point was that unlike many types of hunting, lion hunting is done in a way that puts scent animals in large numbers on the ground and covers large areas of land. To have a success rate of only one animal is indicative of a very small population.

As presented by Lizzard in the post on Mountain Lions, the presence of an active wolf pack is a likely reason there is minimal mountain lion presence. Also IDtater posted information where other units have success rates with 20 to 50 animals. this just supports my belief that a mountain lion is improbable.

I do not know how SAR dogs are trained and what capabilities they have, but I am sure the apparent lack of scent may be from environmental issues and potentially handler skills. I am reasonably sure they would not hide from lion or wolf scent as the types of dogs most often used are utility dogs with high drive. Here is a link to a website for an Idaho Search dog training facility, and they highlight shepherds.

http://highcountryshepherds.com/sar.htm

I used to do shutzhund training with dobermans and they used a ball to stimulate the dogs drive(called ball drive or prey drive.) When that happens the dog will not let anything deter it from getting the ball. Here is a link on the American Police Canine Association page that discusses some training and how they use ball drive.

http://www.theapca.com/articleloader.php?page=Prey Drive

So, in short no there were no lion dogs, but I think they had very skilled tracking dogs on hand that would not have stopped tracking due to alternative(wild animal) scents. Why they did not locate the body, well that may be an issue of wind, moisture or even a miscued handler.

 

[starfire]

This case is so frustrating! There is really nothing left to pick apart imo. I am also frustrated by the absence of press conferences. According to the parents, the child disappeared into thin air in the matter of 10 minutes with them being within 50 yards away. No trace of little Deorr anywhere. He simply vanished.

What else is there to say?

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I agree. I thought by now the parents would have spoken out again (maybe even on national media), a reward offered.....something!

 

[CDB]

Just a friendly invite to the 31 guests we have on the board right now. Please join and add your comments.

As you can see from my post count compared to join date I have not always been an active member, but I am working to rectify that. Without various and different points of view these boards provide very narrow perspective. The forum is well moderated and is a very safe place to share your points of view.

 

[teeandcee]

It just doesn't appear to be a hotbed of mountain lion activity.

I'm just using your comment as a launching point.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my lion theory isn't based at all on it being a hotbed of activity. I have two reasons; context and a young lion. Young lions who are freshly kicked out of the "nest" are wandering looking for their own territory and struggling to survive on their own for the first time. It's a desperate and dangerous time for them wherein they'd behave in ways that a "typical" mature lion would not (approaching humans for instance).

Regarding context we have a child who suddenly vanished without a trace in the isolated and remote wilderness (not a suburban back yard). I think a predator is a logical conclusion. LE has gone on record as having not ruled it out also. I do think he's lost and just not been found, however, my next close guess is a predator.

As far as evidence goes, there's no evidence of anything at all that we've been told so either we aren't being told everything (highly likely) or there's no more evidence for an abduction or lost child as there is for a predator. Every single theory in this thread is based on zero evidence.

 

[SleuthMom]

No reward offered?

 

[Elainera]

The way the news has come out is terribly confusing.

Here is another question I have. Why would the sheriff call him "Grandpa"? Is it possible the Sheriff is related to this family?

Its unusual to me that he would say that in an interview. I know we do it here because we did not have names of people at first but for LE to reference people you would think they would reference their name with Sr or something like that.


“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s (been) a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

bbm

You're right! The way how Bowerman says "grandpa's" sure sounds like he is referring to his own grandpa.

 

[wondering25]

I'm just using your comment as a launching point.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my lion theory isn't based at all on it being a hotbed of activity. I have two reasons; context and a young lion. Young lions who are freshly kicked out of the "nest" are wandering looking for their own territory and struggling to survive on their own for the first time. It's a desperate and dangerous time for them wherein they'd behave in ways that a "typical" mature lion would not (approaching humans for instance).

Regarding context we have a child who suddenly vanished without a trace in the isolated and remote wilderness. I think a predator is a logical conclusion. LE has gone on record as having not ruled it out also. I do think he's lost and just not been found, however, my next close guess is a predator.

As far as evidence goes, there's no evidence of anything at all that we've been told so either we aren't being told everything (highly likely) or there's no more evidence for an abduction or lost child as there is for a predator. Every single theory in this thread is based on zero evidence.

I agree there is a predator.. but it has 2 legs not 4. JMO