ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[dtsnyder]

Do you know how large a mountain lion's territory is?

From what I've read it is about 100 square miles. So approximately a 10 mile by 10 mile radius.

And the area around West Glacier (where the attack occurred) and Leadore is vastly different. I think that the earlier posts about the small number of mountain lions killed (for sport) in the Leadore/Salmon area in the past is an accurate representation of the mountain lion presence there..... very limited.

 

[SweetT]

That mountain lion attack was over 300 miles away from Leadore.

Duh! I know that..its just an example of one...and one area where they are pretty prevalent.

 

[StacyMarie83]

I've read here by some posters that the rape charge is wrong and he is not even on a sexual predator list. Is that true? I just read up thread that the fact that a friend was also camping with the was mentioned right away, just not his name. How hinky is it for someone to have a criminal record?

It was a felony rape charge that was plead down to battery from what i understand. Rapist don't usually end up on a predator list unless it has to do with a minor.

It's not a petty offense by any means.

And initially it was reported that he was camping with family ... not family and friend. You have to look up cached articles since msm updates instead of making a new article. Plus, where IR was when deorr went missing has changed ... he was with the grampa then he was with the parents.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk

 

[SweetT]

From what I've read it is about 100 square miles. So approximately a 10 mile by 10 mile radius.

And the area around West Glacier (where the attack occurred) and Leadore is vastly different. I think that the earlier posts about the small number of mountain lions killed (for sport) in the Leadore/Salmon area in the past is an accurate representation of the mountain lion presence there..... very limited.

The terrain is different, but it shows that they are out there and pretty much all over the area where this incident occurred. The fact that they are rarely seen just makes them that much more dangerous IMO.

 

[pukasonqo2]

i am keeping an open mind, it reminds me of the azaria chamberlain case here in oz. lindy chamberlain was convicted even though there was no motive, eventually it was found that a dingo killed the child but by then the family had been torn apart

 

[dtsnyder]

So even though the ranger said mountain lions and bears ARE in the area, because you didn't "see" any you don't think they could be involved in Deorr's disappearance? The fact is, you're NOT supposed to see them. They are elusive. The are well hidden from you as they hunt by ambush and stalking. Few people, even RANGERS, ever see a mountain lion and that's the way it's supposed to be. Mountain lions don't travel in groups. They are solitary animals except a mother with her cubs, or during the 8-days a year in which the female is in estrus. Oh, and let's not forget that Idaho is one of the best states for big game hunting and people go there from all over the world paying thousands and thousands of dollars just to hunt the wild game. Check out how many outfitters operate in the area.

I don't dispute that there ARE mountain lions in the area. And I know they are elusive, we have them in abundance outside my back door, yet I've never seen one personally. However, hunters are very successful in their hunts. Just looking at the reporting from the Leadore area shows that not many people actually kill mountain lions there.

On our camping trip we didn't see any sign - at all - of mountain lions. And since they are elusive, it makes even more sense that they would not hang out in the area that Deorr disappeared. That area is relatively busy (camping, fishing, atv and motorcycles etc) and mountain lions don't really like people. And there has never (that I could find) been an incident with a mountain lion near Leadore, which makes me believe it is unlikely what caused Deorr to disappear - especially in broad daylight. I might be more inclined to go that way if he had gone missing in the dusk-dawn hours.

 

[SweetT]

So even though the ranger said mountain lions and bears ARE in the area, because you didn't "see" any you don't think they could be involved in Deorr's disappearance? The fact is, you're NOT supposed to see them. They are elusive. The are well hidden from you as they hunt by ambush and stalking. Few people, even RANGERS, ever see a mountain lion and that's the way it's supposed to be. Mountain lions don't travel in groups. They are solitary animals except a mother with her cubs, or during the 8-days a year in which the female is in estrus. Oh, and let's not forget that Idaho is one of the best states for big game hunting and people go there from all over the world paying thousands and thousands of dollars just to hunt the wild game. Check out how many outfitters operate in the area.

Where I live I have seen bears, wolves, coyotes,marmot,foxes,moose,elk...but to this date NO Mountain Lions, but they are there I have no doubt! (MY neighbor has caught them on their outside game cam in their yard). They are just that elusive which to me makes them scarier.

 

[SweetT]

I don't dispute that there ARE mountain lions in the area. And I know they are elusive, we have them in abundance outside my back door, yet I've never seen one personally. However, hunters are very successful in their hunts. Just looking at the reporting from the Leadore area shows that not many people actually kill mountain lions there.

On our camping trip we didn't see any sign - at all - of mountain lions. And since they are elusive, it makes even more sense that they would not hang out in the area that Deorr disappeared. That area is relatively busy (camping, fishing, atv and motorcycles etc) and mountain lions don't really like people. And there has never (that I could find) been an incident with a mountain lion near Leadore, which makes me believe it is unlikely what caused Deorr to disappear - especially in broad daylight. I might be more inclined to go that way if he had gone missing in the dusk-dawn hours.

It was BUSY when you went camping out there..but was it busy the weekend that Deorr went missing at his campground area?

Oh and there is always a first time for a mountain lion to get someone..do they have to grab multiple people or pets for them to exist?

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't dispute that there ARE mountain lions in the area. And I know they are elusive, we have them in abundance outside my back door, yet I've never seen one personally. However, hunters are very successful in their hunts. Just looking at the reporting from the Leadore area shows that not many people actually kill mountain lions there.

On our camping trip we didn't see any sign - at all - of mountain lions. And since they are elusive, it makes even more sense that they would not hang out in the area that Deorr disappeared. That area is relatively busy (camping, fishing, atv and motorcycles etc) and mountain lions don't really like people. And there has never (that I could find) been an incident with a mountain lion near Leadore, which makes me believe it is unlikely what caused Deorr to disappear - especially in broad daylight. I might be more inclined to go that way if he had gone missing in the dusk-dawn hours.

I appreciate your response, however, the majority of cases involving a lion and a human did, in fact, occur during regular daylight hours, in areas regularly frequented by people. And since lion territories range from 10 sq miles to 785 sq miles (see below sources) with little overlapping, it would be uncharacteristic to find a great number of them in any given area.
mountainlion.org/CAL_ch3.asp
www.nps.gov/brca/learn/nature/mountainlion.htm
www.defenders.org/mountain-lion/basic-facts

 

[neesaki]

I was just reading on the below linked site about the case of little Jaryd Atadero, someone posted about it here earlier. It bears a lot of resemblance to this case, as there was no evidence, he just vanished without a trace. Except that they did find some foot and handprints, as well as what was believed to be Cougar tracks. Although one tracker reportedly believed they were bear tracks.

http://missing87975.yuku.com/topic/1914/MISSING-CHILD-JARYD-JOHN-ATADERO-Remains-Recovered#.VcOosLNVhBf

I guess Jaryd's father believes something else happened to his son. Either way it's a tragedy.

http://www.canammissing.com/jaryd-atadero.html

 

[pepelepolecat]

It was BUSY when you went camping out there..but was it busy the weekend that Deorr went missing at his campground area?

snip

It would be interesting to know. I'd also be interested in knowing if LE has managed to track down some of these people to find out what they may have seen or known. Far from the desolate place I pictured, this creates a much different image and may make abduction more likely.

Wasn't there a vehicle they were looking for early on? Silver/blue, perhaps?

 

[Sillybilly]

I have lived a few years in cougar country in the mountains of British Columbia and have yet to catch even a glimpse of a big cat. They are very elusive. Less than 1/2 mile down the road from me however, a family dog was attacked by a cougar when the dog intercepted an attack on his young master. One of our local RCMP officers arrived quickly and shot the cat point blank with the dog's head still in its mouth. Boy and his dog "Angel" both survived

 

[ILOKAL]

From what I've read it is about 100 square miles. So approximately a 10 mile by 10 mile radius.

And the area around West Glacier (where the attack occurred) and Leadore is vastly different. I think that the earlier posts about the small number of mountain lions killed (for sport) in the Leadore/Salmon area in the past is an accurate representation of the mountain lion presence there..... very limited.

Actually, the sources I've read (a few are listed below) state a mountain lion's territory to be anywhere from 10-785 square miles, depending on variables. One major variable of course is the larger the total area the larger the lion's individual territory.

www.nps.gov/brca/learn/nature/mountainlion.htm
www.defenders.org/mountain-lion/basic-facts
mountainlion.org/CAL_ch3.asp

 

[KYPastTracker]

Where I live I have seen bears, wolves, coyotes,marmot,foxes,moose,elk...but to this date NO Mountain Lions, but they are there I have no doubt! (MY neighbor has caught them on their outside game cam in their yard). They are just that elusive which to me makes them scarier.

I agree. In south central Kentucky authorities tell us they aren't here, but people have caught them on cams set up on their farms.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

When LE requests assistance from the FBI , does the FBI ask for a briefing ( for lack of a better word ) of what the LE's investigation has discovered so far ?

Good question. I assume they are brought up to speed on the investigation, but I really don't know the details of what happens when the FBI is asked to provide resources and help on a case.

 

[ILOKAL]

I was just reading on the below linked site about the case of little Jaryd Atadero, someone posted about it here earlier. It bears a lot of resemblance to this case, as there was no evidence, he just vanished without a trace. Except that they did find some foot and handprints, as well as what was believed to be Cougar tracks. Although one tracker reportedly believed they were bear tracks.

http://missing87975.yuku.com/topic/1914/MISSING-CHILD-JARYD-JOHN-ATADERO-Remains-Recovered#.VcOosLNVhBf

I guess Jaryd's father believes something else happened to his son. Either way it's a tragedy.

http://www.canammissing.com/jaryd-atadero.html

Since the font is difficult to read in that article, do a google search for Jaryd Atadero found. There are LOTS of articles. Of interest is this article written just after Jaryd disappeared:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/07/missing.boy.01/index.html

 

[pappa rob]

When a 2 year old is missing there should be no slack. There is obviously some reason they are all POI's. Did they take polys? Have their stories changed? They have no one else to look at.

Yes they took polygraphs no they didn't change their story. The only reason that they're POI's is because they were in the area when their baby disappeared. So far they haven't been called suspects. They are victims so far I've seen no evidence here to prove otherwise. If you have anything to show or prove that someone's to blame I'll consider it. Otherwise cut them some slack.

 

[TheGambler]

Wow, I just read about Jaryd Atadero from the link above. They only had 70 searchers for 5 days. That's it. They called the FBI and the national guard and both organizations said they didn't feel they would be of any help. That poor family. It didn't look like that much effort was done to try to find him.

Edit: I read the other article and saw they went back with dogs and found evidence that he most likely got taken by a mountain lion. I can see why the search stopped.

 

[ILOKAL]

I have lived a few years in cougar country in the mountains of British Columbia and have yet to catch even a glimpse of a big cat. They are very elusive. Less than 1/2 mile down the road from me however, a family dog was attacked by a cougar when the dog intercepted an attack on his young master. One of our local RCMP officers arrived quickly and shot the cat point blank with the dog's head still in its mouth. Boy and his dog "Angel" both survived

I believe I just read about that case yesterday. Very compelling story!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I would say the FBI and the Sheriff's office must have found some evidence to direct their investigation in a different way besides animal attack because they have dismissed it as a possibility. Doesn't mean an animal attack in that area may not be possible, but it does mean if they do have evidence of something else happening...it did not happen to DeOrr. They know what is going on and we do not so I am going with their impression of the case.