ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[BeeFriendly]

JMO..The search the Leodore Community is organizing is set for 9/11? I applaud their efforts but that date is making me so sad. It's 60 days after the fact? A school weekend and after the Labor Day holiday. 2 month's out is just bothering me something terrible. Go now...they have permission from LE...just go now. Those of you who can, just go now.

 

[BeeFriendly]

I'd assume fairly well. I have used black pepper as a deterrent for both my cats and wild animals. It keeps the cats out of my houseplants, and it keeps the squirrels out of my flowers and vegetables. If they sniff it, it makes them sneeze. They can't get a good snort of anything without sneezing, so they pull back. Eventually, they just give up.

But if someone had doused their trail with black (or red, I guess) pepper, you'd think there'd be a bunch of sneezing dogs, which would make it, if not obvious, at least suspicious. Right?

Let's call the New York officials and ask them if their dogs sneezed? Those guys were on the run for a while and details were highly publicized. I would think we would have heard about sneezing dogs and the pepper theory, but I might be wrong. I'll get on that first thing Monday and report back here.

 

[rkf]

P

I wouldn't think being on oxygen 24/7 would keep him from primitive camping with family. Oxygen these days is SO portable and I see people in all walks of life with portable oxygen units. Why couldn't he camp?

i wasn't saying he couldn't camp. I was posting that in response to someone saying they would want to be near medical care for ggp if he needed it, and someone else saying they thought maybe he wasn't that sick. I think needing oxygen 24 hours a day means someone is pretty sick. Certainly not up to strenuous activity or safe around a camp fire. As long as he wasn't expected to do either of those... I can't imagine having to drag an oxygen tank to the shared pit toilet, though. JMO

 

[rkf]

My Dad was on oxygen 24/7 towards the end of his life. And although he could still do some things with us as a family, he had to forego camping. Altitude was a problem for him. As was being too far away from a hospital. If someone is forced to breathe from an oxygen tank, it usually means that their heart/lungs are severely compromised. So it is not good to be too far away from a hospital in case of an emergency. JMO

I hadn't even thought about the altitude. That campsite would definitely have been high enough to have an effect. Maybe the SM post was inaccurate, after all.

 

[starfire]

GGF may not have been on continuous oxygen. There is also "on demand"-type oxygen where the patient controls when the oxygen is released.

If GGF is on oxygen, one wonders about what Deorr Sr said in the video interview, which was that he thought that Little Deorr was supposedly "good with grandpa by the campfire". Usually (or, "as far as I know") if a person is on oxygen they don't hang around fires due to the danger and the smoke.

 

[Dwbri22]

I'm sorry about getting off track, but the discussion could be relevant. It's not necessarily just a hunting debate. Cougar -human conflicts are increasing. It is also a possibibility in this case that Deorr was attacked by one of these animals.

 

[starfire]

I agree, this is all about little DeOrr, who has been missing for a month now.

Yes, it's been 4 weeks today. I keep hoping for a miracle. It is very sad when a "miracle" would be that he was abducted and is still alive. :cry:

 

[SuperTmo]

GGF may not have been on continuous oxygen. There is also "on demand"-type oxygen where the patient controls when the oxygen is released.

If GGF is on oxygen, one wonders about what Deorr Sr said in the video interview, which was that he thought that Little Deorr was supposedly "good with grandpa by the campfire". Usually (or, "as far as I know") if a person is on oxygen they don't hang around fires due to the danger and the smoke.

It isn't safe for someone using an oxygen tank to be near an open flame? Oxygen itself isn't flammable but higher purity oxygen feeds a fire more quickly than regular air. All those little sparks from a campfire ...it would not take much to ignite a tiny spark of heat. Super dangerous.

 

[Jackeee]

Yes, it's been 4 weeks today. I keep hoping for a miracle. It is very sad when a "miracle" would be that he was abducted and is still alive. :cry:

I see his little face daily and hope that today is the day he is brought home safe and well. Yes, it would be a miracle, but after four weeks, that is what many of us are clinging to.

 

[persimmon]

It isn't safe for someone using an oxygen tank to be near an open flame? Oxygen itself isn't flammable but higher purity oxygen feeds a fire more quickly than regular air. All those little sparks from a campfire ...it would not take much to ignite a tiny spark of heat. Super dangerous.

I made this point upthread. I found it odd that an elderly man described as having health problems and dependent on oxygen would be manning the campfire. It adds another layer of confusion and questions as to why you would want your toddler around that deadly mixture? I assume his oxygen source was not a tank, but even alternate sources are dangerous near open popping flames.

My initial reaction to DKs statement to the effect that DeOrr would be good with GGF by the fire was likewise a raised brow. It seemed odd that they had a campfire going but hadn't set up camp and I don't think most people prioritize a fire in a warm, summer day. However, an earlier than previously reported arrival time would explain the fire.

 

[SuperTmo]

I made this point upthread. I found it odd that an elderly man described as having health problems and dependent on oxygen would be manning the campfire. It adds another layer of confusion and questions as to why you would want your toddler around that deadly mixture? I assume his oxygen source was not a tank, but even alternate sources are dangerous near open popping flames.

My initial reaction to DKs statement to the effect that DeOrr would be good with GGF by the fire was likewise a raised brow. It seemed odd that they had a campfire going but hadn't set up camp and I don't think most people prioritize a fire in a warm, summer day. However, an earlier than previously reported arrival time would explain the fire.

Tank or compressor, it doesn't matter. The oxygen itself is the issue because it can ignite from heat (sources of heat like an oven or the stove are also risky) or a tiny spark from the fire. Hanging out near a campfire while on oxygen is a great way to light yourself on fire. The fire would spread when the nasal cannula is pulled off and fuels the flames. Why would the parents their son at risk like this? Are we certain GGP was on oxygen? I've been MIA a few days due to company from out of town, so trying to catch up!

Edit: also why leave an active toddler in the care of someone dependent on oxygen who likely has compromised lungs and/or heart? Not the best person for babysitting in the wilderness since he is tethered to his portable tank or compressor by a nose hose. (modsnip)

 

[neesaki]

Pi wasn't saying he couldn't camp. I was posting that in response to someone saying they would want to be near medical care for VIP if he needed it, and someone else saying they thought maybe he wasn't that sick. I think needing oxygen 24 hours a day means someone is pretty sick. Certainly not up to strenuous activity or safe around a camp fire. As long as he wasn't expected to do either of those... I can't imagine having to drag an oxygen tank to the shared pit toilet, though. JMO

The more I think of it, I'm actually wondering if gramps was there for an over nighter, maybe just a day trip. JMO

 

[Floridian]

I have been reading the animal attacks people are posting, and i believe anything is likely, EXCEPT... I was told when the FBI comes in and gets involved in a case where its missing persons, its not because of animal attacks. Its much more serious reasons. Also been told when FBI is involved according to FBI protocol we will not hear anything else about the case until they have proof in hand and someone is arrested. SOMEONE... The LE could easily chalked it up as mountain lion cougar bear etc attack..... and wiped there hands and case closed. It didn't happen that way, because its much more serious.. Its just going to be a waiting game because unfortunately they aren't going to inform us of anything........ As i stated earlier, anything could be possible up until the point FBI got involved, and NO AMBER ALERT. Im sure most of u have been putting it together... Waiting for the truth to emerge.

 

[jmcgladr]

I have been reading the animal attacks people are posting, and i believe anything is likely, EXCEPT... I was told when the FBI comes in and gets involved in a case where its missing persons, its not because of animal attacks. Its much more serious reasons. Also been told when FBI is involved according to FBI protocol we will not hear anything else about the case until they have proof in hand and someone is arrested. SOMEONE... The LE could easily chalked it up as mountain lion cougar bear etc attack..... and wiped there hands and case closed. It didn't happen that way, because its much more serious.. Its just going to be a waiting game because unfortunately they aren't going to inform us of anything........ As i stated earlier, anything could be possible up until the point FBI got involved, and NO AMBER ALERT. Im sure most of u have been putting it together... Waiting for the truth to emerge.

I think you're right. I used to lean toward cougar abduction as a major possibility, but upon having recently done some research and discovered that cougars have only killed 24 people since 1890 in all of N. America, I'm much more likely to suspect an accident or human abductor.

 

[jmcgladr]

I'm all for it, where do we start?

Seems like what everyone is asking themselves in this case... sadly. Maybe LE has a lot they're not telling us - I hope so, because the alternative of this becoming an unsolved "cold case" is too sad.

 

[Floridian]

I think you're right. I used to lean toward cougar abduction as a major possibility, but upon having recently done some research and discovered that cougars have only killed 24 people since 1890 in all of N. America, I'm much more likely to suspect an accident or human abductor.

yes sad but very true........ so sad

 

[starfire]

Does anyone have any insight as to what is probably going on as far as FBI involvement? I know we don't know exactly what they are doing, but would the FBI have sent an entire team in? A couple guys? I imagine they are checking over all the case files and evidence. Probably re-interviewing everyone involved. What else might they be up to? Would the FBI go out and search the campground area again?

 

[Floridian]

Does anyone have any insight as to what is probably going on as far as FBI involvement? I know we don't know exactly what they are doing, but would the FBI have sent an entire team in? A couple guys? I imagine they are checking over all the case files and evidence. Probably re-interviewing everyone involved. What else might they be up to? Would the FBI go out and search the campground area again?

NOPE, and we wont know until they have found what it is they know they are looking for or whom they are leaning too... its on the down low now... its all opinions at this point, because they keep everything hush hush.. which is good, cause it meas its serious and hopefully soon very soon we will know whats happened to this baby..

 

[Floridian]

Yes, now that doesn't include maulings in which the people survived, but that's it for fatal attacks. These animals really are quite shy around humans, as a general rule.

agreed 100%

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Would someone on oxygen really be sitting around a campfire? In early MSM articles, little Deorr's Dad claimed they had left him with GGP at the campfire while he and Mom went to explore. Oxygen is flammable which is why people are not to smoke around those using oxygen. So kinda weird someone using oxygen would be anywhere near a campfire, JMO.

GGF may not have been on continuous oxygen. There is also "on demand"-type oxygen where the patient controls when the oxygen is released.

If GGF is on oxygen, one wonders about what Deorr Sr said in the video interview, which was that he thought that Little Deorr was supposedly "good with grandpa by the campfire". Usually (or, "as far as I know") if a person is on oxygen they don't hang around fires due to the danger and the smoke.