ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[TeaTime]

GP Kunz seems to have the best, most logical scenario of an abduction.

 

[starfire]

Oh, Very good question. I don't think we looked at that before. It looks like Forest Road 105/Big Timber Creek Road is only a bit more than 1/2 mile (3006 feet) from the campsite!

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6066191,-113.4568114,2715a,20y,180h,40.32t/data=!3m1!1e3

View attachment 79717

It kind of looks like that road starts near the campground and dead ends in the forest (along with a few other roads that branch off of it). Are you seeing where this road goes out to a main road (or how someone could get to the campground from this road -- aside from through the campground?)

 

[pepelepolecat]

Does anyone else find it a little strange that this family member is coming up with very detailed and specific scenarios for how Deorr could have been abducted? Maybe it's not, it just seems like it to me. It would be very difficult for me to see the motive for some random stranger to do this, or for the random stranger just to happen to be there at that precise moment, in the middle of nowhere. JMO

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a motive, yes, but I would imagine that scenarios would be going through my mind nonstop because the not-knowing would have to be maddening. They must be desperate for answers! Figuring out HOW he may have been taken may be the key to figuring out where he might be now.

 

[Jules71]

On the map, I believe 172b is the road dad was referring to when he said he didn't even know the road went up there and you could see down to the reservoir how clear it is in the middle. This goes up onto a ridge that looks down over the campsite. He said people could be up there looking down at them but that they would not see them from the bottom. Seems like if someone can look down on them, you'd also be able to look up at them.

If someone was really on 172b trying to abduct DeOrr, I think it might be quite steep there.

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[Mickshawn]

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a motive, yes, but I would imagine that scenarios would be going through my mind nonstop because the not-knowing would have to be maddening. They must be desperate for answers! Figuring out HOW he may have been taken may be the key to figuring out where he might be now.

~~Detailed & specific scenario
~~Specific colored vehicles to watch for

 

[bluesneakers]

Does anyone else find it a little strange that this family member is coming up with very detailed and specific scenarios for how Deorr could have been abducted? Maybe it's not, it just seems like it to me. It would be very difficult for me to see the motive for some random stranger to do this, or for the random stranger just to happen to be there at that precise moment, in the middle of nowhere. JMO

IMO he sounded like a guy who wanted to be quoted and get some attention.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

And gotten into a car/vehicle pulled over to the side of that road and been on their happy way long before police ever arrived. One can walk a half mile or so, even with a 30-lb. load, in 10 minutes without even being out of breath. Faster, even. DeOrr sr. (dad) said that standing at the top, they could see easily into the "bowl" of the campground but that they could see nothing from below ...

Might have been entirely opportunistic -- someone may've thought they'd gotten "lucky" when they looked down and saw this little guy. I sure hope someone is following up on every one of those sightings.

Poster Trident mentioned a case of a little boy Derrick Engebretson on the other little boys' missing thread. I had never heard of it so read up on it. Its a very sad case but circumstances might be similar regarding an abduction. I can't link cause I'm on my nook. Jmo

 

[starfire]

It appears that road 105 is the road one takes from Leadore to get to the campground. After 7.5 miles, it forks off to road 172 which branches off to the lower and upper campgrounds. Road 105 continues on (after the fork to road 172) and turns into a trail designated for horsebackriding and ATVs. Here’s some info I found about the roads/trails.

Timber Creek Reservoir Lower/Timber Creek Reservoir Upper : West of Leadore on Lee Creek Road .9 miles where you take a left turn up Forest Service Road #105 that heads toward Big Timber Creek. After 7.5 miles you come to a road junction where you take the right fork (Forest Service Road #172). Follow one mile to a fork; right leads to Timber Creek Reservoir Lower, left to Timber Creek Reservoir Upper, another half mile away. http://www.stateparks.com/challis_na..._in_idaho.html

Big Timber Creek Trail #6183.1 - The Big Timber Creek trail is 10.4 miles long. It begins at End Of Big Timber Cr. Road #105 and ends at Lemhi Divide at Rocky Cr. Trail. #6184. The trail is open for the following uses: Horseback Riding, Motorcycle Trail Ridinghttp://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recreation/recarea/?recid=76902&actid=104

Timber Creek Trail #137 - The trail begins at the end of Timber Creek Road #105. It follows an old logging road to the mouth of Timber Creek then goes to the rught and up Timber Creek. The trail actually begins where Timber Creek and Slide Creek come together. The trail ends at Snow Bank Trail Junction. The trail follows Timber Creek through scattered aspen and fir. The canyon is quite beautiful and leads through scattered dry meadows where deer, elk and coyotes have been observed. The top is on the Salmon Divide between the Salmon National Forest and the Challis National Forest and the trail meets the Snow Bank Trail at the top. The view is breathtaking, overlooking the Little Lost towards Howe and north to the Lemhi Valley. http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/...6772&actid=104

This references road 015 (which is off road 105) as a “gated mining road” http://www.fs.fed.us/sopa/components/reports/sopa-110413-2009-07.html

 

[Retribution]

Hi all. Is Kunz a common name? While reading on here about the 5 year old child missing from a campsite also, and the family being members of the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, something occurred to me when looking into the cult...the name Kunz has been heavily prominent in LDS and FLDS since 1927 up to the present day.
while There are no hints that Deorrs family are Members of the extremist FLDS ,( the clothes/hairstyles etc are very conspicuous ) could they possibly be members of the LDS? I know there are cases of kids being forcibly removed from the sects, by ex members, either for punishment or simply to get them out.
If the family are related in any way to the cults, the fact that both these kids went missing from campsites is chilling.

 

[bessie]

Poster Trident mentioned a case of a little boy Derrick Engebretson on the other little boys' missing thread. I had never heard of it so read up on it. Its a very sad case but circumstances might be similar regarding an abduction. I can't link cause I'm on my nook. Jmo

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...errick-James-Engebretson-8-Bonanza-5-Dec-1998

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/engebretson_derrick.html

http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/206649381.html?mobile=y

 

[renarde]

On the map, I believe 172b is the road dad was referring to when he said he didn't even know the road went up there and you could see down to the reservoir how clear it is in the middle. This goes up onto a ridge that looks down over the campsite. He said people could be up there looking down at them but that they would not see them from the bottom. Seems like if someone can look down on them, you'd also be able to look up at them.

If someone was really on 172b trying to abduct DeOrr, I think it might be quite steep there.

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I thought 172 would be the road that Dad DeOrr was thinking of when he said he didn't know the road did that, just because that seems the only part that goes to the other side of the reservoir. But I guess it could be 172B ...

Still wondering how 172 B looks as it crosses the creek just north of the campsite.

 

[starfire]

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a motive, yes, but I would imagine that scenarios would be going through my mind nonstop because the not-knowing would have to be maddening. They must be desperate for answers! Figuring out HOW he may have been taken may be the key to figuring out where he might be now.

Family members are probably painfully aware that a 2 year old isn't going to be able to survive for very long being out in the wilderness alone, so, sadly, abduction scenarios are really the only hope.

 

[BeeFriendly]

I think people tend to follow the lead of what the parents are doing. If they aren't out papering the country with missing posters and speaking out about their child being out there somewhere - then there might be a reason for that. Maybe they have realized this wasn't an abduction??

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Deorr Sr. has replied they have hired a PI on Idaho Missing Alert. Who's to say they're not papering the country? If every word I ever spoke in an interview was ripped apart, scrutinized, criticized, viewed as suspicious, reversed by lunatics & held against me like theirs was, I don't think I would be very public either. I'd be doing everything I could to find my child and keep the public who wants to crucify me at arms length. They don't need the added stress. But I'm positive they are doing everything they can to get his poster out there. I just think we could help them do that. One of the road blocks I'm sure they're running into is the announcements in the media that LE has ruled out an abduction. It's all over the net. But what Bowerman actually said, is he can't rule it out either.

One question I have is, if there is a legitimate sighting....is ANYONE taking the tips seriously & checking it out? Honestly, that worries me more than anything. I was registered with the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, The Lost etc. I didn't get any help from those organizations. Geez, when my daughter was spotted 2500 miles away by a bus driver, I called the Sheriff in Florida for help. They were awful to me. They grilled me for an hour and a half, kept putting me on hold, transferring me to one department after another where I was continuously having to repeat my story. After an hour and a half they finally got me to someone who would dispatch a car to go look. It took them another 3 hours to actually get a car there. 4 1/2 hours later they called me and said no one fitting her description was there! Oh really!!? Brilliant! That's when I took matters into my own hands and went myself and I found her 1.2 miles away from the spot the driver had told me he saw her.

The Center for Missing and Exploited Children are overwhelmed with cases and understaffed. They have volunteers they send out when they can. It could be hours or days later before they can go check a lead out. With everyone saying an abduction has been ruled out...what are the chances they're going to act on any of the leads being phoned in? That's my biggest concern. My Missing Posters had my personal phone number on them as well as the authorities. The driver called me directly and I'm glad he did. Sorry for the rant, but I feel very strongly about this and don't hold much faith in the Sheriff's dept or the Missing Children's agencies.

JMO

 

[sunflowerchick]

Hi all. Is Kunz a common name? While reading on here about the 5 year old child missing from a campsite also, and the family being members of the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, something occurred to me when looking into the cult...the name Kunz has been heavily prominent in LDS and FLDS since 1927 up to the present day.
while There are no hints that Deorrs family are Members of the extremist FLDS ,( the clothes/hairstyles etc are very conspicuous ) could they possibly be members of the LDS? I know there are cases of kids being forcibly removed from the sects, by ex members, either for punishment or simply to get them out.
If the family are related in any way to the cults, the fact that both these kids went missing from campsites is chilling.

Kunz is a pretty common name in the western states. In the area of Idaho where this occurred, the population of members of the LDS church is high. There are less FLDS as the area is a good 7-8 hours from Colorado City at least.

The LDS church would have nothing to do with "disappearing kids" to get them out of the religion. It is very different from the FLDS community and as I have a background in the LDS church, I am almost offended by the insinuation. I am sure many LDS church members would be offended as well because they have tried very hard to distance themselves from that part of their history.

 

[wondering25]

IMO he sounded like a guy who wanted to be quoted and get some attention.

Crime of opportunity and IMPULSE. IF there was a pedophile there and saw this child he may have done this very quickly..on impulse maybe never did anything like this before but NOW... There is always a first time..Even serial pedophiles had a first time..

 

[ILOKAL]

Gpa DeOrr was not at the campground. That is DeOrr Sr dad. He was interviewed and in msm taking about an abduction scenario.

The great gf who was there is Jessica's grandpa.

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My BAD! So sorry - guess I read too fast!

 

[Retribution]

Kunz is a pretty common name in the western states. In the area of Idaho where this occurred, the population of members of the LDS church is high. There are less FLDS as the area is a good 7-8 hours from Colorado City at least.

The LDS church would have nothing to do with "disappearing kids" to get them out of the religion. It is very different from the FLDS community and as I have a background in the LDS church, I am almost offended by the insinuation. I am sure many LDS church members would be offended as well because they have tried very hard to distance themselves from that part of their history.

yes you have every right to be offended, my apologies. Bad wording on my part. The FLDS are the ones where cases have been sighted of "disappearing kids". I understand why the LDS would want to distance themselves from the FLDS, and the vile leader Warren Jeffs ( may he rot in prison). My apologies for the offence caused.

if there are a " high" number of LDS in Idaho, and I do believe there are "some" FLDS also, its not so unlikely that this particular Kunz family are members then. Not that it means anything in particular...just a coincidence, possibly, that Jerold Williams family are FLDS and he too went missing from a campsite.

 

[ILOKAL]

DeOrr's paternal grandfather was not at the campground when he went missing. DeOrr's maternal great-grandfather was.

So sorry! I guess I read too fast and got my Grandpas mixed up. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[bluesneakers]

Hi all. Is Kunz a common name? While reading on here about the 5 year old child missing from a campsite also, and the family being members of the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, something occurred to me when looking into the cult...the name Kunz has been heavily prominent in LDS and FLDS since 1927 up to the present day.
while There are no hints that Deorrs family are Members of the extremist FLDS ,( the clothes/hairstyles etc are very conspicuous ) could they possibly be members of the LDS? I know there are cases of kids being forcibly removed from the sects, by ex members, either for punishment or simply to get them out.
If the family are related in any way to the cults, the fact that both these kids went missing from campsites is chilling.

Mormonism/LDS is not a cult.

 

[flourish]

The John Kunz II family came from Switzerland to southeastern Idaho in the mid to late 1800's. There were a couple of generations of polygamy then none as the LDS church stopped the practice. John Kunz II had many children who had many children and as far as I know there aren't any Kunz families in the FLDS population, as the family stayed with the mainstream LDS.

IMO from lots of geological research on the Kunz family. HTH.

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