ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[ILOKAL]

Re: bolded: I was thinking of this last night that in this case the lion would have know other people were present in the area so probably would not have hung around there, JMO.

Mountain lions don't typically remain where they captured their prey. Rather, they carry or drag it away and then cover it. They cover it so other animals won't find it and also to keep it fresh. A mountain lion usually consumes a deer in two days.

 

[4senthia]

Even though a mountain lion is extremely fast in taking it's prey and usually takes it by the neck, I wonder why there wouldn't be at least a small amount of blood. From the initial puncture wounds.
That tiny bit of blood would be hit on by trained dogs that supposedly covered many acres.
jmho

 

[SweetT]

Even though a mountain lion is extremely fast in taking it's prey and usually takes it by the neck, I wonder why there wouldn't be at least a small amount of blood. From the initial puncture wounds.
That tiny bit of blood would be hit on by trained dogs that supposedly covered many acres.
jmho

IDK about that one honestly. They are scent dogs searching a persons scent and then cadaver dogs which I guess were brought in later but a couple drops of blood? IDK I mean there would be all kinds of probably fish blood from people killing fish around there too. Im no expert though.

 

[ILOKAL]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America

20 attacks since 1890

This is an incomplete list that may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by expanding it with reliably sourced entries.

Although cougar attacks are rare, they can be fatal.​

This is a list of known or suspected fatal cougar attacks that occurred in North America by decade in chronological order. The cougar is also commonly known as mountain lion, puma, mountain cat, catamount, or panther. The sub-population in Florida, which is a population east of theMississippi River, is known as the Florida panther. There are also documented presence of cougars in Upper Peninsula of Michigan.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
At least 20 people in North America were killed by cougars between 1890 and 2011, including six in California. More than two-thirds of the Canadian fatalities occurred on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. Fatal cougar attacks are extremely rare and occur much less frequently than fatal dog attacks, fatal snake bites, fatal lightning strikes, or fatal bee stings.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] Children are particularly vulnerable. The majority of the child victims listed here were not accompanied by adults.
As with many predators, a cougar may attack if cornered, if a fleeing human stimulates their instinct to chase, or if a person "plays dead". Standing still however may cause the cougar to consider a person easy prey.[SUP][1][/SUP] Exaggerating the threat to the animal through intense eye contact, loud shouting, and any other action to appear larger and more menacing, may make the animal retreat. Fighting back with sticks and rocks, or even bare hands, is often effective in persuading an attacking cougar to disengage.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3]

GO TO WEBSITE TO SEE THE LIST OF ATTACKS[/SUP]

Unfortunately, that list is far from complete. You can google but keep in mind the search engine differentiates between mountain lion, cougar, puma, panther, catamount, etc. Use camp, campground, woods, forest, park, yard, hike, trail, etc, etc. they just keep popping up. I haven't researched any of the cases beyond the US and Canada. You should also read the cases of missing in the various areas I've listed.

 

[4senthia]

Good point about blood.
You would think that the dna present in a specific human's blood would also be part of their "scent".
Maybe someone w/such knowledge can weigh in on the topic.
jmho

 

[ILOKAL]

Late into this case, but wouldn't little Deorr have to have wandered away from his family into a secluded area if a mountain lion were to get him otherwise they would of noticed the cat? What a scary thought. As i said i'm late into this case and don't know exactly what the family were doing and where they were at when they first noticed he went missing? Will try and read up a bit about it though.

Please read everything you can about mountain lions and how they attack. They are stealthy, secretive, elusive animals that silently and "invisibly" stalk their prey, often for more than an hour. In most attacks, no one saw it stalking at all and many never saw the lion take the "prey". The kill is usually instant as the lion pounces up to 40' (usually from behind) and delivers an exacting bite to the neck/spinal cord.

 

[ILOKAL]

Even though a mountain lion is extremely fast in taking it's prey and usually takes it by the neck, I wonder why there wouldn't be at least a small amount of blood. From the initial puncture wounds.
That tiny bit of blood would be hit on by trained dogs that supposedly covered many acres.
jmho

There were articles (unfortunately I can't remember which one said what) that explained lack of blood from such an attack, dogs not being able to locate blood and why, that lions lick up the blood, as well as the difficulty in general for tracking mountain lions. So, if a question really puzzles you about these animals, rest assured the answer IS out there.

 

[ILOKAL]

Wonder why someone with such a record was protected for so long?

Huh??

 

[StacyMarie83]

Huh??

IR

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[Jules71]

Huh??

You weren't asking me but I think the poster meant -- Why his name was kept quiet for 3 weeks and why for the first 3 days he wasn't even mentioned as being there.

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[StacyMarie83]

On the sheriff's office fb page it said they are going to "redirect the investigation" ... it'd be nice to know where they are redirecting to ... so frustrating.

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[dtsnyder]

Here is a fairly recent article on a mountain lion attacking a dog and sounds like they have quite a few lions around that area..It was in March, but the threat is still there. People have no clue how many attacks occur on missing Children etc in state parks and forests, cause if they are never found you cannot make the connection. JMO

http://missoulian.com/news/local/at...cle_e349d3a7-39e7-5a2a-aa17-8415b9366da7.html

That mountain lion attack was over 300 miles away from Leadore.

 

[dtsnyder]

This is my first time posting, but I have been reading about the case here from the beginning. I learned of Deorr missing while researching areas to camp for a family reunion. We picked the area since it is the middle ground for those traveling from out of state. Ultimately we camped outside of Salmon (about 40 miles north) but I talked with the local Leadore Ranger District multiple times. I specifically had questions about local animals since we have young children. Each person I talked to mentioned obvious black bears, but also said that there are some cats and wolves in the area. I asked if there had been any issues in the past and they said no, nothing had ever been reported. Recently a black bear had wandered into Meadow Lake Campground, but just grabbed a bag of marshmallows on a table and left.

We just returned from the camping trip two days ago, and I was actually surprised at the lack of any big game animals. We saw domestic cows in the forest and some ground squirrels/chipmunks. We camped in a light use area and hiked into many lakes and around the area - and saw nothing. No sign of anything either (and according to the Salmon Ranger District there are also bear and mtn lions in the area).

I honestly think an attack from any type of wild animal is very unlikely in this case - especially after visiting the general area. I would be incredibly surprised if it is ultimately determined that an animal had anything to do with Deorr's disappearance.

 

[ILOKAL]

You weren't asking me but I think the poster meant -- Why his name was kept quiet for 3 weeks and why for the first 3 days he wasn't even mentioned as being there.

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Thank you. I thought it was initially said who was there and included GGF and Friend but didn't give the names of either. I don't think the GGF's name has been given at all by MSM, has it? What difference does it make that they didn't release the friend's name when they also didn't release the GGF's name?

 

[Jules71]

Maybe we can discuss 'victim friendly' reasons why these parents or others close to them might want to fake the disappearance of little DeOrr.

I don't think we've explored that route, have we? Many people are getting the impression that he was never on this trip due to the lack of a scent trail.

Could the family have gotten involved with the wrong people and this was an elaborate plan to hide little DeOrr while the family works with LE? It would fit with the idea of LE suggesting to the family to stay out of the media - if they want people (the bad ones) to think Deorr is lost and most likely deceased. Or maybe the bad people did follow them out there and wait for the right moment to strike and take DeOrr. Maybe LE wants the public (bad people) to think they are stumped but they are really working on how to get Deorr back.

Who would want to harm this family especially knowing how much DeOrr means to them??? Who wants payback for something?

Just trying to find other ideas to discuss beides those that have been put out there already.



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[ILOKAL]

That mountain lion attack was over 300 miles away from Leadore.

Do you know how large a mountain lion's territory is?

 

[Jules71]

Thank you. I thought it was initially said who was there and included GGF and Friend but didn't give the names of either. I don't think the GGF's name has been given at all by MSM, has it? What difference does it make that they didn't release the friend's name when they also didn't release the GGF's name?

The ggf has not been named in the media, but we have known all along that he was on the trip.

The parents gave no indication at all in their interview (the Monday after the disappearance) that anyone else was with them. That was odd. It was even more odd that after it came up that a friend was along on the trip, he wasn't named until it all came out in social media and the sheriff basically had no choice but to confirm it. The reason it's hinkier than not knowing ggf's name is because he has a prior rape charge. So he was originally omitted and has a record. Odd to me too. Then to see him on camera makes it triple hinky to me.

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[ILOKAL]

This is my first time posting, but I have been reading about the case here from the beginning. I learned of Deorr missing while researching areas to camp for a family reunion. We picked the area since it is the middle ground for those traveling from out of state. Ultimately we camped outside of Salmon (about 40 miles north) but I talked with the local Leadore Ranger District multiple times. I specifically had questions about local animals since we have young children. Each person I talked to mentioned obvious black bears, but also said that there are some cats and wolves in the area. I asked if there had been any issues in the past and they said no, nothing had ever been reported. Recently a black bear had wandered into Meadow Lake Campground, but just grabbed a bag of marshmallows on a table and left.

We just returned from the camping trip two days ago, and I was actually surprised at the lack of any big game animals. We saw domestic cows in the forest and some ground squirrels/chipmunks. We camped in a light use area and hiked into many lakes and around the area - and saw nothing. No sign of anything either (and according to the Salmon Ranger District there are also bear and mtn lions in the area).

I honestly think an attack from any type of wild animal is very unlikely in this case - especially after visiting the general area. I would be incredibly surprised if it is ultimately determined that an animal had anything to do with Deorr's disappearance.

So even though the ranger said mountain lions and bears ARE in the area, because you didn't "see" any you don't think they could be involved in Deorr's disappearance? The fact is, you're NOT supposed to see them. They are elusive. The are well hidden from you as they hunt by ambush and stalking. Few people, even RANGERS, ever see a mountain lion and that's the way it's supposed to be. Mountain lions don't travel in groups. They are solitary animals except a mother with her cubs, or during the 8-days a year in which the female is in estrus. Oh, and let's not forget that Idaho is one of the best states for big game hunting and people go there from all over the world paying thousands and thousands of dollars just to hunt the wild game. Check out how many outfitters operate in the area.

 

[ILOKAL]

The ggf has not been named in the media, but we have known all along that he was on the trip.

The parents gave no indication at all in their interview (the Monday after the disappearance) that anyone else was with them. That was odd. It was even more odd that after it came up that a friend was along on the trip, he wasn't named until it all came out in social media and the sheriff basically had no choice but to confirm it. The reason it's hinkier than not knowing ggf's name is because he has a prior rape charge. So he was originally omitted and has a record. Odd to me too. Then to see him on camera makes it triple hinky to me.

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I've read here by some posters that the rape charge is wrong and he is not even on a sexual predator list. Is that true? I just read up thread that the fact that a friend was also camping with the was mentioned right away, just not his name. How hinky is it for someone to have a criminal record?

 

[escape2sc]

When LE requests assistance from the FBI , does the FBI ask for a briefing ( for lack of a better word ) of what the LE's investigation has discovered so far ?