ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

[Ruminations]

I often wonder about this… why was Lori’s competency tested and due to her beliefs but Chad wasn’t?

There is a typo in your sentence, but I think you are asking why, if both Lori and Chad had the same belief in zombies and stuff...why was only she assessed for competence?

I'm hardly an expert in law or mental health but I think I can give a decent answer.

Beliefs and unrealistic beliefs can sometimes mean a person is not mentally well. (Although a mentally well person can have an unprovable belief.) a person's beliefs can be symptoms of mental illness.

But...having a mental illness does not mean a person is incompetent.

I am inclined to believe Lori was incompetent for most of the time she was so deemed- that's just my opinion. I also think she clearly has been both mentally ill and competent. We saw it in every police interview. She seems to know when it is and when it is not a good time to prattle on about facing Jesus and stuff like that. She knows how to say and do things that are in her interest, to not get arrested. She understands what the police are saying to her. She is extremely manipulative which is hardly a good character trait but it is a talent and shows her competence at those times, IMO.

I believe it is likely that there were episodes where Lori not able to turn parts of herself in and off, and could not manipulate. She possibly could not tell when it was an appropriate time to talk about being a goddess or having priest powers. This ability to know that there is a time and place for the crazies is what I believe separates competence from incompetence.

The rub is with the legal defense when discussing competence to stand trial. The mental health bar is really low to be "competent." You just have to understand the basic process- that you are being accused- what the outcomes could be and what could happen next. Even if the defendant has very poor judgment- such as wishes to take the stand and explain how they are really a god and are trying to help us all through the rough times ahead- that does not make them incompetent. There lawyer woukd advise against this. But if they make that decision while understanding the advice- they were competently making their own decisions. Irrational, perhaps. Mentally ill perhaps. But competent.

MOO

 

[Shadow@light]

Thank you Chelly, it's good to come back to join the gang again.

It is good to have you back. Hugs and peaceful thoughts

 

[montegrl]

Updated docket for CD, yet another motion to dismiss and motion to sever:

• 02/10/2023 Order
  Comment
  to Seal
• 02/10/2023 Motion to Dismiss
  Comment
  the Indictment
• 02/13/2023 Motion
  Comment
  to Sever - Second Renewed
• 02/13/2023 Response to Request for Discovery
  Comment
  Eleventh Supplemental
• 02/13/2023 Response to Request for Discovery
  Comment
  Eleventh Supplemental
• 02/13/2023 Order
  Comment
  Modifying Court's Scheduling Order filed December 16, 2022
• 02/16/2023 Motion Hearing
  Judicial Officer
  Boyce (District), Steven
  Hearing Time
  9:30 AM

 

[montegrl]

LV's updated docket:

• 02/13/2023 Response to Request for Discovery
  Comment
  Eleventh Supplemental
• 02/13/2023 Order
  Comment
  on Defendant's Motion for Individual Voir Dire
• 02/13/2023 Order
  Comment
  Modifying Court's Scheduling Order filed December 16, 2022
• 02/13/2023 Order
  Comment
  on Defendant's Motion for Pre-Selection Jury Instruction
• 02/13/2023 Decision or Opinion
  Comment
  Memorandum and Order
• 02/16/2023 Motion Hearing
  Judicial Officer
  Boyce (District), Steven
  Hearing Time
  9:30 AM

 

[pizzaman12]

Judge Boyce denies Lori Vallow’s motion to dismiss murder case. He cites 11/28/22 as real deadline for when to meet speedy trial obligations, adding time for last hold on case. Boyce says “good cause” for delay is justified w/ moving trial to Ada Co., voluminous discovery, etc.
*just the last 4 pages of the order.

Justin Lum - Investigative Reporter

Judge Boyce denies Lori Vallow’s motion to dismiss murder case. He cites 11/28/22 as real deadline for when to meet speedy trial obligations, adding time for last hold on case. Boyce says “good...

www.facebook.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Idaho judge denies Lori Vallow's motion to dismiss, sets murder trial date 3 years after arrest

Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell's joint murder trial is set to begin on April 3, 2023, about three years after they were arrested in 2020 for the murders of Vallow's children.

www.foxnews.com

Idaho Judge Steven Boyce on Monday denied Lori Vallow's motion to dismiss her murder case for lack of a speedy trial and set a trial date for April 3 after approximately three years of back-and-forth since her 2020 arrest in Hawaii.

Vallow has spent more than a thousand days in jail as she awaits her joint murder trial with husband Chad Daybell, which was initially set for 2021 but has been delayed due to her competency examinations and an "exceptionally voluminous" collection of evidence, among other factors.

"The delay is, as a whole, minimal given the overall charges and maximum penalties imposed," Boyce wrote in his memorandum denying Vallow's request to dismiss.

 

[pizzaman12]

Why is "voluminous discovery" a good cause? It's up to the prosecution to be ready to go if they're going to charge them

 

[Cool Cats]

Why is "voluminous discovery" a good cause? It's up to the prosecution to be ready to go if they're going to charge them

Meaning the defense has needed time to receive all the evidence and then time to go through all the evidence. A great deal of evidence.

Examples:

Doing their own investigation, interviewing witnesses, consulting various experts, getting experts to analyze forensic testing reports plus doing their own forensic testing, phone records, digital evidence, mental health evaluations, LE reports, physical evidence, a whole long list is involved.

 

[pizzaman12]

Meaning the defense has needed time to receive all the evidence and then time to go through all the evidence. A great deal of evidence.

Examples:

Doing their own investigation, interviewing witnesses, consulting various experts, getting experts to analyze forensic testing reports plus doing their own forensic testing, phone records, digital evidence, mental health evaluations, LE reports, physical evidence, a whole long list is involved.

I understand, however, the defense didn't want it delayed. JA stated it would obviously help him with more time to prepare but that LV was not willing to waive her speedy trial right. How can JB show good cause when the defense is saying, we'll be ready.

 

[Teche]

Thank you. The fog is lifting slowly for us all. My remaining sons took it badly as expected and I never thought my eldest would leave us as health conscious as he was.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

 

[Cool Cats]

I understand, however, the defense didn't want it delayed. JA stated it would obviously help him with more time to prepare but that LV was not willing to waive her speedy trial right. How can JB show good cause when the defense is saying, we'll be ready.

In this article is the PDF to this:

MEMORANDUM DECISION and ORDER
On defendant's motion to dismiss for lack of speedy trial

It explains the Judge's decision to not dismiss the case
for lack of speedy trial.

Idaho judge denies Lori Vallow's motion to dismiss, sets murder trial date 3 years after arrest

Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell's joint murder trial is set to begin on April 3, 2023, about three years after they were arrested in 2020 for the murders of Vallow's children.

www.foxnews.com

Confusing, because on the one hand Lori has previously asked for more time:

Boyce determined that despite the Daybells' repeated requests to push the trial back until later this year or next year, an April 2023 timeframe will "reduce the impact of unnecessary delay."

But yet on the other hand, Lori doesn't want to give up her speedy trial rights. I never heard of this:

Additionally, Vallow "will not waive her right to accommodate more preparation for her attorneys."

"Vallow's attorneys are arguing that the court has deprived the murder suspect of her right to a speedy trial, but Boyce said Idaho law has an exception for cases in which "a defendant's trial is postponed by their own application."

"As a natural consequence of the complexity of the investigation in this case, the preparation and dissemination of the discovery in this case has been an ongoing issue. All parties have argued at various times that the discovery is exceptionally voluminous, causing concerns about preparations and adequate disclosures. The Court has sought to carefully balance requests for extensions of time with Lori's speedy trial right."

 

[pizzaman12]

In this article is the PDF to this:

MEMORANDUM DECISION and ORDER
On defendant's motion to dismiss for lack of speedy trial

It explains the Judge's decision to not dismiss the case
for lack of speedy trial.

Idaho judge denies Lori Vallow's motion to dismiss, sets murder trial date 3 years after arrest

Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell's joint murder trial is set to begin on April 3, 2023, about three years after they were arrested in 2020 for the murders of Vallow's children.

www.foxnews.com

Confusing, because on the one hand Lori has previously asked for more time:

Boyce determined that despite the Daybells' repeated requests to push the trial back until later this year or next year, an April 2023 timeframe will "reduce the impact of unnecessary delay."

But yet on the other hand, Lori doesn't want to give up her speedy trial rights. I never heard of this:

Additionally, Vallow "will not waive her right to accommodate more preparation for her attorneys."

"Vallow's attorneys are arguing that the court has deprived the murder suspect of her right to a speedy trial, but Boyce said Idaho law has an exception for cases in which "a defendant's trial is postponed by their own application."

"As a natural consequence of the complexity of the investigation in this case, the preparation and dissemination of the discovery in this case has been an ongoing issue. All parties have argued at various times that the discovery is exceptionally voluminous, causing concerns about preparations and adequate disclosures. The Court has sought to carefully balance requests for extensions of time with Lori's speedy trial right."

It wasn't really in regards to the motion to dismiss. It was in regards to going past her speedy trial deadline. I just didn't recall seeing "voluminous discovery" as a good cause for an exception to the speedy trial. That's essentially saying we're going to deny your right that you're refusing to waive because there is a ton of discovery and it's such a complex case??? For who? The prosecutors? JA stated he'd be ready. Even using numbers after "their own application", it's still past the deadline. I've been saying it for ages and I hope I'm wrong but I think that is going to come back on JB.

 

[Cool Cats]

It wasn't really in regards to the motion to dismiss. It was in regards to going past her speedy trial deadline. I just didn't recall seeing "voluminous discovery" as a good cause for an exception to the speedy trial. That's essentially saying we're going to deny your right that you're refusing to waive because there is a ton of discovery and it's such a complex case??? For who? The prosecutors? JA stated he'd be ready. Even using numbers after "their own application", it's still past the deadline. I've been saying it for ages and I hope I'm wrong but I think that is going to come back on JB.

Judge Steven Boyce has an Idaho law on his side to support his ruling.

Idaho judge denies Lori Vallow's motion to dismiss, sets murder trial date 3 years after arrest

Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell's joint murder trial is set to begin on April 3, 2023, about three years after they were arrested in 2020 for the murders of Vallow's children.

www.foxnews.com

 

[pizzaman12]

Judge Steven Boyce has an Idaho law on his side to support his ruling.

Idaho judge denies Lori Vallow's motion to dismiss, sets murder trial date 3 years after arrest

Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell's joint murder trial is set to begin on April 3, 2023, about three years after they were arrested in 2020 for the murders of Vallow's children.

www.foxnews.com

I'm not a lawyer nor appellate court so my opinion should be taken as that. However, his decision and basis has been scrutinized by many in the legal community so I don't think I totally alone

 

[Chelly]

One can not play the Speedy Trial Card after playing two separate Incompetent to Stand Trial Cards. LV had a choice. She went with two 90-day sentences of mental health evaluations and treatment to get her competent enough to stand trial. She has played her hand including the Alex Did It Card
as well as I Was In My Apartment With Witnesses when Killings Occurred Card.
imo

 

[Cool Cats]

I often wonder about this… why was Lori’s competency tested and due to her beliefs but Chad wasn’t?

I wonder if it comes down to Lori's legal team requesting it and Chads attorney's didn't request it for him? Or was it court ordered for Lori?

From
MEMORANDUM DECISION and ORDER
on Defendant's Motion to Dismiss for lack of Speedy Trial

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

"Lori's attorney of record (at the time) filed a request for this Court to order Lori to undergo a mental health evaluation in the "0838 case" prior to the return of the INDICTMENT in the instant case."

Instant Case means the current Case.

Lori's charges changed so I think the "0838 case" refers to her concealment of evidence charges, thus, a different case number.

Lori was ordered to undergo a competency evaluation in March 2021 for separate concealment of evidence charges.

 

[mickey2942]

Sometimes, I think that the law needs a re write. There is no doubt who killed these children, who conspired to have them killed, and didn't LVD say that her children were in a "safe" place?! She is guilty and so is CD. I wish cases like this could be fast tracked.

 

[Niner]

Thursday February 16th:
*Motions Hearing (@ 9:30am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) & Tamara “Tammy” Michelle Douglas Daybell (49) (died on Oct. 19, 2019 at her residence in Salem, ID; dob 5/4/70). – for *Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) arrested (6/9/20) & indicted (5/25/21) & charged (5/26/21) & arraigned (6/9/21) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4 (for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy, 49, died 10/19/19): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): 1st degree murder. Count 8 & 9: Insurance Fraud (Two counts of insurance fraud related to 2 different life insurance policies he had on Tammy). Plead not guilty. No bond. DA will seek DP. Fremont County
Trial set to begin on 4/3/23 thru 6/9/23 @ 9am. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last 10 weeks)
Grand jury indictment, court & case info from 6/10/20 thru 1/31/23 reference post #334 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-67.655419/page-17
2/1/23: Defense's Objection to IRE 404(b). Objects to the introduction of all requested evidence by the State pursuant to IRE 404(b). The request by the State is not timely. The court must first conduct an evidentiary hearing as it relates to such evidence. Next motions hearing on 2/9/23.
2/9/23 Update: The original deadline for the defense & prosecution to submit evidence & witness lists to each other was 2/27/23 but John Prior, Daybell’s attorney, said he needs more time. Prior noted he & the prosecution are waiting on a piece of DNA evidence & once it’s back, his expert will need 60 days to analyze it. That won’t be enough time ahead of the trial. He also mentioned 1,100 pages of documents that were given to him Thursday, which he has not had time to go through & GPS evidence he recently received. Prosecutors suggested pushing back the deadline two weeks & Judge Boyce set the new date for all evidence & witnesses to be submitted as 3/13/23. A motion to sever the cases from each other, filed by Prior, was postponed until the next court hearing scheduled for 2/23/23.
2/10/23: Order to Seal. Motion to Dismiss the indictment-2nd renewed. 2/13/23: Response to request for Discovery-11th Supplement. Order: Modifying Court's scheduling Order filed 12/16/22. Motions hearing on 2/16/23 @ 9:30am.

ALSO:
*Motions Hearing (@ 9:30am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – for *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): Chad only: 1st Degree murder. Count 7: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial set to begin on 4/3/23 thru 6/9/23 @ 9am. Trial will be held in Ada County.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 1/31/23 reference post #334 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-67.655419/page-17
2/2/23: State's response to Defendant's Motion for pre-selection instructions. State's response to Defendant's request for individual voir dire. Defendant's Objection to State's Motion re mental health evidence. Next motions hearing on 2/9/23.
2/9/23 Update: District Judge Steven Boyce heard several motions from defense attorneys & prosecutor attorney Tawnya Rawlings regarding evidence, the jury, scheduling deadlines & whether Vallow’s case should be dismissed due to lack of a speedy trial. Judge Boyce said he will issue a written decision on the motion (to dismiss) soon. The defense wants potential jurors to be questioned in smaller groups with questions about their religion to be included. Also about mental illness & drug use. They argue there could be bias against Vallow among the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints due to the nature of the case. Judge Steven W. Boyce agreed with the smaller groups but adamantly objected to asking jurors about their religion. He said questions posed would be decided at a later date in Ada County. Judge Boyce granted a motion filed by Vallow’s attorneys to have instructions given to potential jurors before jury selection begins. Prosecutors agreed with the idea & Judge Boyce said he’s in process of coming up with those instructions. He will consider suggestions from both the defense & prosecution on what should be included. Next pretrial hearing on 2/23/23 @ 9am.
2/13/23: Response to request for Discovery-11th Supplemental. Order on Defendants Motion for individual voir dire. Order to modifying Court's scheduling Order filed 12/16/22. Order on defendant's Motion for pre-selection jury instruction. Decision or opinion: memorandum & Order. Motions hearing on 2/16/23 @ 9:30am.
2/14/23 Update: Judge Boyce denies Vallow’s motion to dismiss murder case. He cites 11/28/22 as real deadline for when to meet speedy trial obligations, adding time for last hold on case. Boyce says “good cause” for delay is justified with moving trial to Ada Co., voluminous discovery, etc.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Sometimes, I think that the law needs a re write. There is no doubt who killed these children, who conspired to have them killed, and didn't LVD say that her children were in a "safe" place?! She is guilty and so is CD. I wish cases like this could be fast tracked.

I have been thinking the same.... the delays are horrendous.....
Do these lawyers really think we are ever going to forget about what happened....
Get on with this friggin case...

 

[Laughing]

I have been thinking the same.... the delays are horrendous.....
Do these lawyers really think we are ever going to forget about what happened....
Get on with this friggin case...

whilst the unfortunate taxpayers of Idaho feed them, house them, and provide medical care.

Sure hope that Idaho has financial accountability for inmates!