ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72

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fred&edna said:
It's difficult for me to imagine what IP's ex/mother of his children thinks of MP.

Also, I can't even imagine the relationship between BB, MP and their children.

Troubling situations for all.

jmo
Click to expand...

Just a guess:

Ian's ex and family might not like where he went- but are probably over it that he went.

MOO
 
Summary of tweets for Tuesday, May 2nd - Day 15

State witness: Alice Gilbert, neighbor of Daybell's / Part 2

Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
12m
NEW THREAD: We are back from the break. Jurors are being brought in.

Gilbert says she and her husband reached out to visit Chad on Oct. 26 after Tammy's death. Chad said he would come to their house. "He came over to our place and I made cookies. He came in and sat in the kitchen. We asked how he was doing.

He said, 'Actually I'm going very good.' He said he met the woman he was going to marry." Gilbert and her husband were shocked. Chad went on to say how beautiful Lori was and said they met at a conference in St. George.

They asked for her name and Chad didn't want to say but eventually he said Lori Vallow.

Lori was not with Chad when she came to visit the Gilberts. Gilbert says she and her husband work at the temple on Tuesday night. They were waiting in a room one Tuesday night and Chad tapped her on the shoulder and asked Gilbert to come in the hallway.

Gilbert met Lori and her niece Melani. "It was awkward," Gilbert says

Chad brought Lori over to meet the Gilberts. "They came in and sat on the couch. They were quite affectionate with each other," she recalls. "It was abnormal for us to see Chad that way. His arm was around her, he had his arm over her legs. She was giggling and laughing.

For my husband and I, we were embarrassed just because we hadn't seen Chad that way. They looked like teenagers."

Gilbert asked Lori if she had been married. Lori said her husband died of a heart attack. Chad said Lori recently lost a daughter and Gilbert expressed her sympathies for Lori. Gilbert says Chad was not flirtatious or affectionate with Tammy.

Gilbert recalls asking Lori if she was used to the cold because in October 2019, there was an extreme, hard, early frost. The potato farmers were getting their harvest done early so Gilbert remembers how cold it was. This was the week of Oct. 26, 2019.

Chad told the Gilberts he was going to go to Hawaii to write a book. Chad said they were going to get married but they didn't know when. They mentioned they were taking Chad's kids to Disneyland around Thanksgiving. Nothing was said of Lori's kids.

"I had the impression that Lori had no other children. That she was an empty nester. I thought the daughter who had died was like an older daughter who died of cancer or illness or something."

After the visit, Chad and Lori came back after they got married. They returned to Idaho before the family California trip and stopped by the Gilberts' to show them wedding pictures. Gilbert believes this was around two weeks after the initial visit.

Gilbert was shocked to see wedding pictures because they got married so quick.

Gilbert recalls Chad visiting her house by himself in February 2019. She was in the middle of a project and she walked him to the door. "He stopped and said he had a vision that Tammy's time on earth was coming to an end. It was fulfilled.

He didn't know how or when but he didn't see her living past the age of 50."

After Lori was arrested in Hawaii, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if he could live in one of their spare bedrooms. He said his house was too crowded. Gilbert said they had a daughter coming to live with them and they didn't have room.

When Lori's bond hearing was scheduled, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if they would put their property up for bond. The Gilberts said they would think about it. Chad left. The next day Chad texted and said he had arranged for a bondswoman to come and talk with them.

Blake asks for a sidebar after Thomas objects to some of her questions.

During his visit to the Gilberts, Alice confronted Chad about the fact that he told her Lori's daughter had died. Chad denied telling her this. Alice knew the kids were missing and said to Chad, "Didn't Tylee deserve a life? A car? A boyfriend?"

Chad responded, "She didn't like people and she didn't like me." Alice was struck that Chad used the past tense.

Gilbert then recalls overhearing Chad tell someone, "They think I killed my wife." Blake has no further questions.

Archibald is cross-examining Gilbert. He asks how Gilbert got to know Melanie Gibb. Gilbert says she didn't know Melanie but she listened to podcasts with Melanie Gibb and Lori. Archibald asks what kind of podcasts they were.

"They were upbeat and positive podcasts. Encouragement. A lot of life in the podcasts."

Archibald asks Gilbert if she's aware of what Chad did for a living. She says she knew Chad wrote books. She read Chad's last series before they moved to Rexburg. Gilbert says she wasn't sure about the books. She didn't talk much with him about the books.

Gilbert says she never spoke with Chad about his visions but her husband did sometimes at church.

Archibald asks Gilbert if she spoke with Chad about the conferences he went to. She says she and her husband attended Preparing a People conferences in Rexburg and Boise. She believes she went to the one in Rexburg in 2018 and the one in Boise in 2019.

Chad presented at both seminars and attempted to sell his books.

Archibald asks Gilbert if Chad's goal in talking about his near-death experiences was to sell books. She says she thinks so. Archibald asks if the seminars were sanctioned or approved by the church.

Gilbert doesn't think so. Gilbert says she learned about Preparing a People after seeing a brochure in Rexburg.

Archibald asks if the subject matter at the conference was approved by the church. Gilbert says no. There were all kinds of topics discussed - fossils, The Book of Mormon, positivity, food storage, etc.

"Did some of the topics focus on the end of the world?" Archibald asks. Gilbert responds, "I think Chad's did."

Archibald asks Gilbert is Chad spoke about The Church of the Firstborn. She says not in the seminars but she heard Chad talk about it in conversations with her husband. "Sometimes you just nod and listen but again, you have no idea."

Archibald asks Gilbert is The Church of the Firstborn is a spliter group of the LDS Church. Blake objects and says the question is beyond the scope. Boyce sustains it. Archibald asks Gilbert if Chad was a "weird guy." She says he was but there's a lot of weird people.

Archibald asks Gilbert if she looks to Chad for spiritual guidance. She says she did not.

Archibald asks if Gilbert thought Lori was enamored with Chad. Gilbert says, "They were definitely in love." Archibald has no further questions.

Blake has some re-direct questions. "Did Chad appear enamored with Lori?" Response: "Absolutely." Blake: "And Chad was more enamored with Lori than he was with Tammy?" Gilbert says yes. Blake has nothing further. Gilbert is released from the witness stand.



link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
 
Summary of tweets for Tuesday, May 2nd - Day 15

State witness: Todd Gilbert, neighbor of Daybell's / Part 1


Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
24m
Todd Gilbert is now called to the stand. Todd is married to Alice.

Todd knew Chad was an author and when the Gilberts moved into the area in March 2017, they got to know the Daybells. Todd often interacted with Chad. They saw each other once a week in the yard and once a week at church.

Gilbert had read some of Chad's book and Chad spoke with his neighbor about his dreams and visions and characters in his book. Chad said the books were fictional and patterned after his visions.

Gilbert says Chad started to teach him religious-related topics. "If they were standard LDS topics, I agreed with him." If they weren't, Gilbert ignored them. In Feb. 2019, as Chad was leaving the Gilbert's house, Chad said,

"I don't know if I should tell you this or not but I've had a vision that Tammy is going to die and move on before her 50th birthday."

Gilbert went with his wife to Chad Daybell's house on the morning Tammy Daybell died. Gilbert says Chad seemed "business-like" more than if someone had just lost their companion. "Things were already planned out and ready to go for the funeral."

The Gilberts arrived at Chad's house around 8:15-8:30 a.m. Todd mentioned the vision Chad had told him earlier in the year actually happened. Gilbert says Chad turned his back to his kids and somewhat whispered to Todd, "Yes it did."

Gilbert says he observed Tammy at church and she never appeared to have failing health. Chad and Tammy often sat up in the front of the building. They were there as a family.

As time went on, they slowly moved back and by the time of June 2019 happened, they were sitting clear in the back. "They seemed a little distant from each other and Chad was talking less to me about stuff.

He said people talking about preparations was getting old so he was taking a break."

After Tammy's funeral, Chad told Gilbert that he was moving in with a friend who had an apartment on Pioneer Road. At Tammy's funeral, Gilbert says Chad didn't seem sad.

"He seemed like he could handle everything ok and then in the funeral when he spoke, which personally I thought was odd too because most people don't do that when their spouse dies, he did show some emotions and spoke for some time."

A few days after Chad moved out, the Gilberts called and said they wanted to bring him pizza at his new apartment to see how he was doing. Chad said he would come to their house instead. He showed up an hour later and ate some cookies.

He said he had a girlfriend named Lori Vallow. Gilbert had heard Lori's name before because he had listened to podcasts with her, Melanie Gibb and Jason Mow.

A few days later, the Gilberts met Chad, Lori and Melani P. in the Rexburg Temple. Chad introduced the Gilberts to his girlfriend. It was a short visit.

Around 2-3 nights later, Gilbert says Chad and Lori both came to the Gilbert's house. "We spoke about how they were getting along and they seemed to be going well at that point." Gilbert says the biggest thing he noticed is

Chad and Lori were acting like a couple of teenagers who were first in love - holding hands, sitting close to each other, Chad was rubbing his leg. "I thought that was odd as his spouse had just passed a week and a half ago." Gilbert had never seen Chad act like that with Tammy.

Chad said he was going to move to Hawaii because he had a friend who wanted him to help write a book. Chad said he was going to marry Lori "when Christ told them to get married." Gilbert recalled Lori saying she had a previous husband who died of a heart attack in December.

"We asked her if she had any children and she said she had many," Gilbert recalls. Chad said Lori had a daughter who just passed away. Chad never corrected or said anything different after Lori said that about her daughter.

Chad and Lori never said anything about Lori having a minor son. Around Thanksgiving, Chad and Lori visited again and said they just got married. They showed the Gilberts all of their wedding photos.

Chad told the Gilberts he and Lori were taking Chad's kids to Disneyland. They never mentioned taking Lori's kids to Disneyland. The Gilberts never saw any children belonging to Lori Vallow.

Gilbert says Chad told him that his kids felt good about Lori even though they were missing Tammy. Chad told Gilbert two or three times that Tammy visited him in spirit and was fine with everything.

Her mission was complete on this earth and she could move on. Tammy told Chad to comfort the kids and she thought it was fine.

After Lori was arrested and brought back to Rexburg, Chad visited the Gilberts. "Without going into the details about why he was there, do you recall a conversation taking place about his prior statement about Lori having a daughter who had passed away?" Blake asks.

Gilbert recalls his wife asking about Tylee. "He said she (Tylee) didn't really like him too much and she kind of stayed away."

Blake has no further questions. We are breaking for lunch. Defense will cross-examine in about an hour.


link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow



and shall continue these tweets in (my) morning... :)
 
Where was the defense going with questioning of Chad's neighbor AG? It didn't seem like they were trying to discredit her testimony. How is her and her husband's interest in Chad's books and Lori's podcasts related to Lori's guilt or innocence?
 
Niner said:
Summary of tweets for Tuesday, May 2nd - Day 15

State witness: Alice Gilbert, neighbor of Daybell's / Part 2

Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
12m
NEW THREAD: We are back from the break. Jurors are being brought in.

Gilbert says she and her husband reached out to visit Chad on Oct. 26 after Tammy's death. Chad said he would come to their house. "He came over to our place and I made cookies. He came in and sat in the kitchen. We asked how he was doing.

He said, 'Actually I'm going very good.' He said he met the woman he was going to marry." Gilbert and her husband were shocked. Chad went on to say how beautiful Lori was and said they met at a conference in St. George.

They asked for her name and Chad didn't want to say but eventually he said Lori Vallow.

Lori was not with Chad when she came to visit the Gilberts. Gilbert says she and her husband work at the temple on Tuesday night. They were waiting in a room one Tuesday night and Chad tapped her on the shoulder and asked Gilbert to come in the hallway.

Gilbert met Lori and her niece Melani. "It was awkward," Gilbert says

Chad brought Lori over to meet the Gilberts. "They came in and sat on the couch. They were quite affectionate with each other," she recalls. "It was abnormal for us to see Chad that way. His arm was around her, he had his arm over her legs. She was giggling and laughing.

For my husband and I, we were embarrassed just because we hadn't seen Chad that way. They looked like teenagers."

Gilbert asked Lori if she had been married. Lori said her husband died of a heart attack. Chad said Lori recently lost a daughter and Gilbert expressed her sympathies for Lori. Gilbert says Chad was not flirtatious or affectionate with Tammy.

Gilbert recalls asking Lori if she was used to the cold because in October 2019, there was an extreme, hard, early frost. The potato farmers were getting their harvest done early so Gilbert remembers how cold it was. This was the week of Oct. 26, 2019.

Chad told the Gilberts he was going to go to Hawaii to write a book. Chad said they were going to get married but they didn't know when. They mentioned they were taking Chad's kids to Disneyland around Thanksgiving. Nothing was said of Lori's kids.

"I had the impression that Lori had no other children. That she was an empty nester. I thought the daughter who had died was like an older daughter who died of cancer or illness or something."

After the visit, Chad and Lori came back after they got married. They returned to Idaho before the family California trip and stopped by the Gilberts' to show them wedding pictures. Gilbert believes this was around two weeks after the initial visit.

Gilbert was shocked to see wedding pictures because they got married so quick.

Gilbert recalls Chad visiting her house by himself in February 2019. She was in the middle of a project and she walked him to the door. "He stopped and said he had a vision that Tammy's time on earth was coming to an end. It was fulfilled.

He didn't know how or when but he didn't see her living past the age of 50."

After Lori was arrested in Hawaii, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if he could live in one of their spare bedrooms. He said his house was too crowded. Gilbert said they had a daughter coming to live with them and they didn't have room.

When Lori's bond hearing was scheduled, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if they would put their property up for bond. The Gilberts said they would think about it. Chad left. The next day Chad texted and said he had arranged for a bondswoman to come and talk with them.

Blake asks for a sidebar after Thomas objects to some of her questions.

During his visit to the Gilberts, Alice confronted Chad about the fact that he told her Lori's daughter had died. Chad denied telling her this. Alice knew the kids were missing and said to Chad, "Didn't Tylee deserve a life? A car? A boyfriend?"

Chad responded, "She didn't like people and she didn't like me." Alice was struck that Chad used the past tense.

Gilbert then recalls overhearing Chad tell someone, "They think I killed my wife." Blake has no further questions.

Archibald is cross-examining Gilbert. He asks how Gilbert got to know Melanie Gibb. Gilbert says she didn't know Melanie but she listened to podcasts with Melanie Gibb and Lori. Archibald asks what kind of podcasts they were.

"They were upbeat and positive podcasts. Encouragement. A lot of life in the podcasts."

Archibald asks Gilbert if she's aware of what Chad did for a living. She says she knew Chad wrote books. She read Chad's last series before they moved to Rexburg. Gilbert says she wasn't sure about the books. She didn't talk much with him about the books.

Gilbert says she never spoke with Chad about his visions but her husband did sometimes at church.

Archibald asks Gilbert if she spoke with Chad about the conferences he went to. She says she and her husband attended Preparing a People conferences in Rexburg and Boise. She believes she went to the one in Rexburg in 2018 and the one in Boise in 2019.

Chad presented at both seminars and attempted to sell his books.

Archibald asks Gilbert if Chad's goal in talking about his near-death experiences was to sell books. She says she thinks so. Archibald asks if the seminars were sanctioned or approved by the church.

Gilbert doesn't think so. Gilbert says she learned about Preparing a People after seeing a brochure in Rexburg.

Archibald asks if the subject matter at the conference was approved by the church. Gilbert says no. There were all kinds of topics discussed - fossils, The Book of Mormon, positivity, food storage, etc.

"Did some of the topics focus on the end of the world?" Archibald asks. Gilbert responds, "I think Chad's did."

Archibald asks Gilbert is Chad spoke about The Church of the Firstborn. She says not in the seminars but she heard Chad talk about it in conversations with her husband. "Sometimes you just nod and listen but again, you have no idea."

Archibald asks Gilbert is The Church of the Firstborn is a spliter group of the LDS Church. Blake objects and says the question is beyond the scope. Boyce sustains it. Archibald asks Gilbert if Chad was a "weird guy." She says he was but there's a lot of weird people.

Archibald asks Gilbert if she looks to Chad for spiritual guidance. She says she did not.

Archibald asks if Gilbert thought Lori was enamored with Chad. Gilbert says, "They were definitely in love." Archibald has no further questions.

Blake has some re-direct questions. "Did Chad appear enamored with Lori?" Response: "Absolutely." Blake: "And Chad was more enamored with Lori than he was with Tammy?" Gilbert says yes. Blake has nothing further. Gilbert is released from the witness stand.



link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Click to expand...
"After Lori was arrested in Hawaii, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if he could live in one of their spare bedrooms. He said his house was too crowded. Gilbert said they had a daughter coming to live with them and they didn't have room."

Now WHAT was THAT all about? He wanted to live with the Gilberts? His house was too crowded? Crowded with what? Ghosts?
 
indicolite22 said:
Where was the defense going with questioning of Chad's neighbor AG? It didn't seem like they were trying to discredit her testimony. How is her and her husband's interest in Chad's books and Lori's podcasts related to Lori's guilt or innocence?
Click to expand...

Remembering the cross exam of DW... it almost feels as if the defense is somewhat targeting the beliefs of some of the witnesses. Maybe?? But, why they would be taking this route... I don't know.
 
fred&edna said:
Remembering the cross exam of DW... it almost feels as if the defense is somewhat targeting the beliefs of some of the witnesses. Maybe?? But, why they would be taking this route... I don't know.
Click to expand...
It seems like they are trying to establish that MANY people were fooled by Chad's "teachings", to show that Lori was just another victim who was hoodwinked by a cult leader.
 
LostOldUserName said:
Was there a receipt that Alex purchased duct tape? If so , when? IF close to when JJ was killed there would really be no excuse for her hair to be on the tape. Just MOO
Click to expand...
IMO, there is no excuse for Lori's hair to be on the duct tape wrapped around JJ's body no matter if there is a receipt for the duct tape or not. IMO
 
cottonweaver said:
fair play to her for coming forward nonetheless. Such useful testimony isn't it.
She might be the only one of the followers who is willing to speak out publicly

from the tweets it sounds as if she is saying her husband was more into it
Also, do you recall/seen the HTC podcast where the Rexburg guy ( I will find his name later) recounted the day that Chad turned up claiming that Chad knew this guy's past probations/lives and he wanted to speak to the guy about them but the conversation had to be out of the guy's wife's presence?

ETA link,

Destin Thayne​

Click to expand...
I love Rexburg, it’s like gossip town! Must be a fantastic place to people watch!
 
Trebor5591 said:
"After Lori was arrested in Hawaii, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if he could live in one of their spare bedrooms. He said his house was too crowded. Gilbert said they had a daughter coming to live with them and they didn't have room."

Now WHAT was THAT all about? He wanted to live with the Gilberts? His house was too crowded? Crowded with what? Ghosts?
Click to expand...
I think Emma and her husband and child had moved in when Chad left for Loris/Hawaii. Could possibly had one of the boys staying there too. It must be hard living with people who you have lied to and also the small fact that he had killed their mother. I hope it drive him mad. All that could have been, and all that.
 
Trebor5591 said:
"After Lori was arrested in Hawaii, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if he could live in one of their spare bedrooms. He said his house was too crowded. Gilbert said they had a daughter coming to live with them and they didn't have room."

Now WHAT was THAT all about? He wanted to live with the Gilberts? His house was too crowded? Crowded with what? Ghosts?
Click to expand...
I think his sons were living at home at some point. Some moved out around the time the children's bodies were found.
 
Nikynoo said:
I think Emma and her husband and child had moved in when Chad left for Loris/Hawaii. Could possibly had one of the boys staying there too. It must be hard living with people who you have lied to and also the small fact that he had killed their mother. I hope it drive him mad. All that could have been, and all that.
Click to expand...
Emma was living nearby when the bodies were found in June 2020.
 
cottonweaver said:
fair play to her for coming forward nonetheless. Such useful testimony isn't it.
She might be the only one of the followers who is willing to speak out publicly

from the tweets it sounds as if she is saying her husband was more into it
Also, do you recall/seen the HTC podcast where the Rexburg guy ( I will find his name later) recounted the day that Chad turned up claiming that Chad knew this guy's past probations/lives and he wanted to speak to the guy about them but the conversation had to be out of the guy's wife's presence?

ETA link,

Destin Thayne​

Click to expand...
Shawn Littlebear was also mentioned there. Did Chad name-drop his peers in the imaginary world of past lives without their knowledge or did they also believe?
 
Nikynoo said:
(This is a ghost haunting my reply box!)
Click to expand...
fred&edna said:
Remembering the cross exam of DW... it almost feels as if the defense is somewhat targeting the beliefs of some of the witnesses. Maybe?? But, why they would be taking this route... I don't know.
Click to expand...

To blur responsibility. Prior seemed to be going for the jugular of the LDS church. For his client, he wants to make the so called "cult" talk mainstream.

I'm not certain that the LDS church shouldn't shoulder a bit this. But I am quite certain that the rank and file of LDS believers are simply being good community members and could easily be offended by that defense. That explains Prior wanting out of Rexburg, but even in Boise everyone is or knows good people who are LDS. So I don't see how Prior's approach of "its not my client, it's your (or your friend's) church!" will work out.

Lori's team is okay with calling the belief system fringe. This makes Lori more a victim of cult- leader Chad.

But really- it's not relevant. If it's not Chad it's his church- still no one told him to kill. If it's not Lori, it's her cult leader, no one told her to be first deputy goddess. And if anyone told her to kill, which is possible, she knew better than to say, "okay, sweetie."

Additional responsible people are simply additional responsible people. They don't make the defendants less responsible.

MOO

---------

Edited to add: Might have to rethink this. Im not sure yet if this podcast kerfuffle supports this assertion or refutes it! What an exciting day in court.

It has also been heartbreaking because it slid Chad's children more in the victim column than I had realized. I hope I haven't been snarky about them.

MOO
 
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