ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #73

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KonaHonu said:
<modsnip> The supposed threat against AB was specific (cut her up in tiny pieces) and uncharacteristic. I'm not saying I believe AB made it up. I just don't have enough evidence to decide. To me AB came across as a little sketchy as a witness, not necessarily a liar, but her not being forthcoming with information like that before the grand jury is a huge hit to her credibility in my mind.
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IMO, I feel if you look at the totality of the evidence in this case, there should be guilty verdicts on all counts. But I recognize that some jurors demand "smoking gun" evidence, and if one is not presented by the prosecution, they will vote "not guilty" despite strong circumstantial evidence. I can think of two famous cases proving this theory, where the juries did not do their job because of impossible standards: one, acquitting OJ for the murder of his ex-wife and two, acquitting Casey Anthony for the murder of her daughter. Despite the fact that (in my opinion) both were guilty. Yet, juries acquitted them both. It may happen here too, because Lori was careful enough not to text Alex and/or Chad "Have you killed them yet". My opinion only.
 
cottonweaver said:
Mine isn't either.
Plus , we're all different in how we process stuff or react.
Once the missing kids case broke in the media in December 2019 with so many locals speculating they might be hidden on a compound in Idaho , I would have been terrified too.

Terrified for those missing kids and felt compelled, regardless of my own safety, to call the cops saying wtte ' I'm concerned the mother may do something drastic to her kids and there's no time to lose. She threatened me with a dreadful outcome involving dismemberment, trash bags & a burial which nobody could ever find. What if they're planning to do this to the kids'
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night after seeing media coverage and local PD chief saying he was worried that the kids were in serious danger

( Not sure how anyone in May 2021 - time of the GJ - could imagine that LVD was not going to get to trial or expected her release)
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Yes I agree with you and especially anything to do with children. But fear is a great motivator to do nothing. Not really sure what I would do. I’m not a hero. But yes, I care very much .
 
As the jurors are hearing about Lori texting Charles’ sons their father is dead and not answering any question from them, Chad and Lori are texting to meet up … quite descriptively.

Good way to break for the weekend leaving all this in the juror’s minds. I read some of them seem quite upset.
 
Gut_feeling said:
This strikes me immediately as a very immature narcissist who is excited to have another person knowing how "special" she is, it's like Chad has found her a "lady in waiting" for his soon to be bride.
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yes, good call.
A bit like a bridesmaid.
At first, when Nate tweeted ' liaison' I thought it was the classic go-between type thing- like when a friend asks their friend to be their go-between & cover-story while they conduct a secret extra-marital affair but it's more than that. Think it pertains to their cult beliefs( L & C's destiny as leaders of the group & Chad's ' prophecies')
 
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How do the jurors manage to go the whole weekend without being allowed to process this freaking case?

What a cinco de Mayo! Loin fire plus more explicit texts interspersed with texts from Charles sons begging for answers!

Wow.

MOO
 
Summary of tweets for Friday, May 5th - Day 18


State witness: Former FBI Special Agent Doug Hart & now serves at the Canyon County Sheriff's Office

Chief Deputy / Part 2


Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
1m
NEW THREAD: Boyce is back on the bench. Jurors are being brought in.

Smith asks Hart about viewing Lori's iCloud accounts through Cellebrite. Cellebrite is a digital intelligence company that provides tools for federal, state, and local law enforcement to collect, review, analyze and manage digital data, according to their website.

We see an image on the screen that shows the Cellebrite dashboard with menu items showing different categories of what was found in the iCloud. Over 13,000 text messages along with images, voicemails, etc.

Lollytime has far less fewer files than lori4style. Lollytime was created in April 2019. Lori4style was first used in December 2000.

Hart says he followed a "very methodical" process in searching the iCloud accounts. "My process was to open up a compartment and examine the data in there. If there was something that was pertinent or relevant, I would make a document of that."

Smith asks Hart how many records of data were on the iCloud. He says he doesn't have an exact number but his best estimate is 130,000-150,000 records.

Hart applied a date filter starting Oct. 26, 2018 through November 2019 on lori4style. There were approximately 4,500 text messages. Hart read every text. Then went to each category (voicemail, photos, etc.) and did the same thing.

The program was able to retrieve the contents of the message, who it was sent to, who sent it, the date and time.

Hart says every single text Lori sent was not relevant to the investigation. He says there were thousands of "normal, every day" type of texts that had no bearing on the case. If a message was relevant, he would flag it.

Lori is chatting with her attorneys while the FBI agent speaks about these messages. She's also taking notes on her yellow pad.

Hart's initial review of the iCloud account began before the children were found. He believes it has taken him well over 200 hours to go through all the records.

Hart discovered leads in the messages, such as Lori and Chad saying they wanted to get married and lead a life together. "There were several communications regarding JJ and Tylee that were relevant to their deaths.

They discussed their deaths. After the affair began, there began to be communication regarding the deaths of Charles Vallow, Tammy Daybell, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan."

Hart says Chad and Lori used the word "obstacles" to describe JJ, Tylee, Charles and Tammy.

Hart also found financial information along with information regarding the relationship between Alex Cox and Lori and Chad.

Hart says there was communication and direct references to a large life insurance policy possessed by Charles Vallow as well as social security payments attributed to JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

"There were a number of communications between Alex Cox and Lori Vallow deemed to be pertinent to the investigation and it was clear there was a relationship between Alex Cox and Chad Daybell as well," Hart says.

"Those relationships were important because those individuals were ultimately charged with hte alleged crimes."

Hart describes how he pulled information from Cellebrite into the summary Powerpoint. He cut and pasted each message from the program into the presentation so the words/letters were not altered.

Smith asks to admit the summary Powerpoint presentation. Thomas objects. Boyce overrules the objection.

The first slide is a line in the contact section of lori4style. It was saved under the name of Bishop Shumway on Oct. 28, 2018. The phone number was the known cell number for Chad Daybell.

Chad and Lori met at a Preparing a People seminar on Oct. 26, 2018. The conference ended on Oct. 28. This was the first known electronic contact between the two, Hart says.

The next slide shows a text string between Lori and Audrey Barattiero on Jan. 23, 2019. Lori: "Hi Audrey, this is Lori. I would love to talk with you sometime. Text me or call me. I'm excited to be able to talk with you about what we both know."

Response: "Hi Lori. Guess you talked to Chad. Haha. Did he tell you I have a crazy work schedule? I'll have to play it by ear but I would know until about 9:30 p.m. The same for tomorrow."

Lori responds: "He did. That's ok. No pressure. I just think it's fun to talk to someone who knows what's really going on :)" Audrey responds: "So what times usually work for you? I usually talk to him on my lunch breaks on Mondays or Tuesday, Sunday afternoons I can talk."

Hart says Chad told Audrey he was going to marry Lori and he wanted Audrey to act as the liaison between him and Lori until Tammy died.

We now see text messages between Lori and Alex from March 20, 2019. Lori tells Alex she is finding out "some great stuff" about him and she was going to the temple to do some sealings.

Alex responds, "Ok. hurry up please." Lori responds, "Going to check everything with my source tonight to make sure I get this all right but it's really good. We can talk about it tomorrow hopefully."

Hart says Chad acted as a religious leader and this is an instance where Lori communicated to her brother regarding things she's learning about him from "her source" Chad, Hart believes.

Hart says Alex and Melanie Boudreaux would solicit Lori to find out religious information from Chad. Lori's position was "right next to Chad Daybell.

The two of them were in elevated positions and others would seek their counsel and advice as if related to alleged revelations and visions and so forth."

On March 26, 2019, we now see text messages between Alex and Lori. Alex: "Correct. Charles body is alive." Alex: "What did u learn?" Lori: "A lot! Still working on it. Will call u later."

Smith asks Hart what "still working on it" means. Hart says he saw very frequent usage of that particular term. "We are working on things."

That is a direct reference to the belief they were in a battle against zombies and dark entities so when they talked about working on something, they were referencing their efforts, Hart says.

Next we see a slide of Melani Boudreaux to Lori the evening of July 9, 2019. Lori: "They have an elaborate plan I'll call you soon." Melani: "I could take all the babies with and drive? And take our stuff." Lori: "U can't go at all. We both need to stay here to defend ourselves."

Lori: "It's coming to a head! This week will change everything." Charles Vallow was killed July 11.

Smith asks Hart what "it's coming to a head" means to him." He responds, "It's a reference to the marriage between Lori Vallow and Charles Vallow

Thomas objects and asks to have it stricken from the record. Boyce grants the objection. Hart now says he learned from Lori's own words that her marriage had deteriorated.

Hart says there were messages that indicated Lori wanted Charles Vallow out of her life as her husband. The next slide shows a text from Lori to Alex on July 9. Lori says: "Getting sleepy. So I'm going to need you to stay close to me for the next couple days. Mel too.

She can't go to ti Utah. They are planking (sic) some kind of intervention but want Mel out of the way so I'm left alone. I need to come get the stuff at your house tomorrow and secure it. Lots to do.

Thank you for standing by me. It's all coming to a head this week. I will be like Nephi I am told. And so will you" Lori texts Melani the next day: "Al is here. Charles says he will come over in the morning."

Smith asks about the statement about Nephi and asks what Nephi is. Hart responds that it's the name of an ancient prophet whose life is documented in The Book of Mormon.

"That book of scripture spans from 600 BC to 400 AD and Nephi is one of the first prophets documented in that particular book."

Smith asks about the historical significance of Nephi. Hart says the primary example is when Nephi was commanded to slay Laban. "Laban was in possession of records that Nephi and his family wanted to posses before they left Jerusalem.

Nephi was commanded by God to slay Laban to obtain these records," Hart says.

Thomas has objected several times during this portion of testimony about Nephi. Says testimony is vague and outside the scope. Boyce has overruled the objections.

The next slide shows a chat between Lori Vallow, Cole Vallow and Zach Vallow - Charles Vallow's sons. Rather than trying to type them all, you can read them as they appeared here.

The next slide shows message between Chad and Lori on July 13, 2019. Chad to Lori: "I will check with All Bloomer and husband." Lori to Chad: "Good idea."

Chad to Lori: "Aly Bloomer is 4.1 dark. Her cop husband is 3 dark. I suppose Brandon doesn't know yet about the discovered Charles texts?" Lori to Melani: "Aly Bloomer's husband 3 (dark emoji)."

Aly Bloomer was a friend of Brandon Boudreaux. Hart says Brandon had brought Aly and her husband to the house to talk with Melani. They were then identified as dark.

We now see a text from Chad to Lori on July 13. We saw this text earlier in the trial. Chad told Lori about BYU-Idaho's graduation on the 23rd. "I feel she will be gone by then but I will still have that hoopla to deal with because a lot of family is coming" and will stay.

On July 14, Chad to Lori: "Good morning my most beautiful Lili. Thanks for joining me in the shower this morning. Wow. Getting ready to leave for my meetings. Does noon your time look like a time we could talk? I love you so immensely that the whole universe knows it.

And very soon the people on this little blue globe will know it too."

Hart said investigators repeatedly heard that Chad told multiple people his wife Tammy was going to die. These messages were sent three months before her death.

Lori responded to the shower text: "Morning sunshine. sure. Call me if you get a chance." Lori and Chad both had multiple names for each other. Chad was called James and Raphael.

Lori was called Lily and Elaina. Hart says Chad was not physically with Lori when he sent the shower text. She was in Arizona, he was in Idaho. Hart says they often implied they had been with each other when it was not physically possible.

Chad texted Lori on July 14, 2019: "I love you so much! You are me greatest desire and my best friend. Now on with the story." Chad then goes on to text "The James and Elaina story." You can read the romance novel to his "goddess lover" here.

Hart continues to read the romance novel that Chad sent to Lori via text message. He's not reading the entire novel, just the portions he belives are relevant to the case.

The next slide shows messages sent the evening of July 14, 2019. Chad to Lori: "Hanging in there, but really missing you too! Please find out the name of Mel's campout in Utah.

I have no intention of going, but I feel it is our avenue to get together, whether she is still here or not." Lori: "Zion's family camp. Mel speaks Wednesday night and Dave speaks Thursday night. Shelly M is their main speaker...eye roll."

Chad: "Well, that should work for me to get away though. I spoke at it two years ago which is when I first met Mel. What time do you fly out tomorrow?" Chad: "My trip to speak at the camp July 24-26 has been approved and is now on the calendar."

Message on July 14. Chad to Lori: "I need so badly to just gently kiss you...for hours." Chad: "It would likely lead to other activities." Lori to Chad: "Likely or Luckily?" Chad to Lori: "It would likely lead to nakedness."

Hart now reads the text messages between Zach and Cole Vallow where they confronted her three days after Charles was killed. They demand answers about what happened to their dad and if JJ is safe. Lori was not responding to Charles' sons, but was busy texting Chad and Melani B.



link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow


I believe they may have gone to lunch - as he has not tweeted for a bit. I shall go ahead & post this - and will pick up the rest in the morning.
 
Niner said:
Summary of tweets for Friday, May 5th - Day 18


State witness: Former FBI Special Agent Doug Hart & now serves at the Canyon County Sheriff's Office

Chief Deputy / Part 2


Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
1m
NEW THREAD: Boyce is back on the bench. Jurors are being brought in.

Smith asks Hart about viewing Lori's iCloud accounts through Cellebrite. Cellebrite is a digital intelligence company that provides tools for federal, state, and local law enforcement to collect, review, analyze and manage digital data, according to their website.

We see an image on the screen that shows the Cellebrite dashboard with menu items showing different categories of what was found in the iCloud. Over 13,000 text messages along with images, voicemails, etc.

Lollytime has far less fewer files than lori4style. Lollytime was created in April 2019. Lori4style was first used in December 2000.

Hart says he followed a "very methodical" process in searching the iCloud accounts. "My process was to open up a compartment and examine the data in there. If there was something that was pertinent or relevant, I would make a document of that."

Smith asks Hart how many records of data were on the iCloud. He says he doesn't have an exact number but his best estimate is 130,000-150,000 records.

Hart applied a date filter starting Oct. 26, 2018 through November 2019 on lori4style. There were approximately 4,500 text messages. Hart read every text. Then went to each category (voicemail, photos, etc.) and did the same thing.

The program was able to retrieve the contents of the message, who it was sent to, who sent it, the date and time.

Hart says every single text Lori sent was not relevant to the investigation. He says there were thousands of "normal, every day" type of texts that had no bearing on the case. If a message was relevant, he would flag it.

Lori is chatting with her attorneys while the FBI agent speaks about these messages. She's also taking notes on her yellow pad.

Hart's initial review of the iCloud account began before the children were found. He believes it has taken him well over 200 hours to go through all the records.

Hart discovered leads in the messages, such as Lori and Chad saying they wanted to get married and lead a life together. "There were several communications regarding JJ and Tylee that were relevant to their deaths.

They discussed their deaths. After the affair began, there began to be communication regarding the deaths of Charles Vallow, Tammy Daybell, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan."

Hart says Chad and Lori used the word "obstacles" to describe JJ, Tylee, Charles and Tammy.

Hart also found financial information along with information regarding the relationship between Alex Cox and Lori and Chad.

Hart says there was communication and direct references to a large life insurance policy possessed by Charles Vallow as well as social security payments attributed to JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

"There were a number of communications between Alex Cox and Lori Vallow deemed to be pertinent to the investigation and it was clear there was a relationship between Alex Cox and Chad Daybell as well," Hart says.

"Those relationships were important because those individuals were ultimately charged with hte alleged crimes."

Hart describes how he pulled information from Cellebrite into the summary Powerpoint. He cut and pasted each message from the program into the presentation so the words/letters were not altered.

Smith asks to admit the summary Powerpoint presentation. Thomas objects. Boyce overrules the objection.

The first slide is a line in the contact section of lori4style. It was saved under the name of Bishop Shumway on Oct. 28, 2018. The phone number was the known cell number for Chad Daybell.

Chad and Lori met at a Preparing a People seminar on Oct. 26, 2018. The conference ended on Oct. 28. This was the first known electronic contact between the two, Hart says.

The next slide shows a text string between Lori and Audrey Barattiero on Jan. 23, 2019. Lori: "Hi Audrey, this is Lori. I would love to talk with you sometime. Text me or call me. I'm excited to be able to talk with you about what we both know."

Response: "Hi Lori. Guess you talked to Chad. Haha. Did he tell you I have a crazy work schedule? I'll have to play it by ear but I would know until about 9:30 p.m. The same for tomorrow."

Lori responds: "He did. That's ok. No pressure. I just think it's fun to talk to someone who knows what's really going on :)" Audrey responds: "So what times usually work for you? I usually talk to him on my lunch breaks on Mondays or Tuesday, Sunday afternoons I can talk."

Hart says Chad told Audrey he was going to marry Lori and he wanted Audrey to act as the liaison between him and Lori until Tammy died.

We now see text messages between Lori and Alex from March 20, 2019. Lori tells Alex she is finding out "some great stuff" about him and she was going to the temple to do some sealings.

Alex responds, "Ok. hurry up please." Lori responds, "Going to check everything with my source tonight to make sure I get this all right but it's really good. We can talk about it tomorrow hopefully."

Hart says Chad acted as a religious leader and this is an instance where Lori communicated to her brother regarding things she's learning about him from "her source" Chad, Hart believes.

Hart says Alex and Melanie Boudreaux would solicit Lori to find out religious information from Chad. Lori's position was "right next to Chad Daybell.

The two of them were in elevated positions and others would seek their counsel and advice as if related to alleged revelations and visions and so forth."

On March 26, 2019, we now see text messages between Alex and Lori. Alex: "Correct. Charles body is alive." Alex: "What did u learn?" Lori: "A lot! Still working on it. Will call u later."

Smith asks Hart what "still working on it" means. Hart says he saw very frequent usage of that particular term. "We are working on things."

That is a direct reference to the belief they were in a battle against zombies and dark entities so when they talked about working on something, they were referencing their efforts, Hart says.

Next we see a slide of Melani Boudreaux to Lori the evening of July 9, 2019. Lori: "They have an elaborate plan I'll call you soon." Melani: "I could take all the babies with and drive? And take our stuff." Lori: "U can't go at all. We both need to stay here to defend ourselves."

Lori: "It's coming to a head! This week will change everything." Charles Vallow was killed July 11.

Smith asks Hart what "it's coming to a head" means to him." He responds, "It's a reference to the marriage between Lori Vallow and Charles Vallow

Thomas objects and asks to have it stricken from the record. Boyce grants the objection. Hart now says he learned from Lori's own words that her marriage had deteriorated.

Hart says there were messages that indicated Lori wanted Charles Vallow out of her life as her husband. The next slide shows a text from Lori to Alex on July 9. Lori says: "Getting sleepy. So I'm going to need you to stay close to me for the next couple days. Mel too.

She can't go to ti Utah. They are planking (sic) some kind of intervention but want Mel out of the way so I'm left alone. I need to come get the stuff at your house tomorrow and secure it. Lots to do.

Thank you for standing by me. It's all coming to a head this week. I will be like Nephi I am told. And so will you" Lori texts Melani the next day: "Al is here. Charles says he will come over in the morning."

Smith asks about the statement about Nephi and asks what Nephi is. Hart responds that it's the name of an ancient prophet whose life is documented in The Book of Mormon.

"That book of scripture spans from 600 BC to 400 AD and Nephi is one of the first prophets documented in that particular book."

Smith asks about the historical significance of Nephi. Hart says the primary example is when Nephi was commanded to slay Laban. "Laban was in possession of records that Nephi and his family wanted to posses before they left Jerusalem.

Nephi was commanded by God to slay Laban to obtain these records," Hart says.

Thomas has objected several times during this portion of testimony about Nephi. Says testimony is vague and outside the scope. Boyce has overruled the objections.

The next slide shows a chat between Lori Vallow, Cole Vallow and Zach Vallow - Charles Vallow's sons. Rather than trying to type them all, you can read them as they appeared here.

The next slide shows message between Chad and Lori on July 13, 2019. Chad to Lori: "I will check with All Bloomer and husband." Lori to Chad: "Good idea."

Chad to Lori: "Aly Bloomer is 4.1 dark. Her cop husband is 3 dark. I suppose Brandon doesn't know yet about the discovered Charles texts?" Lori to Melani: "Aly Bloomer's husband 3 (dark emoji)."

Aly Bloomer was a friend of Brandon Boudreaux. Hart says Brandon had brought Aly and her husband to the house to talk with Melani. They were then identified as dark.

We now see a text from Chad to Lori on July 13. We saw this text earlier in the trial. Chad told Lori about BYU-Idaho's graduation on the 23rd. "I feel she will be gone by then but I will still have that hoopla to deal with because a lot of family is coming" and will stay.

On July 14, Chad to Lori: "Good morning my most beautiful Lili. Thanks for joining me in the shower this morning. Wow. Getting ready to leave for my meetings. Does noon your time look like a time we could talk? I love you so immensely that the whole universe knows it.

And very soon the people on this little blue globe will know it too."

Hart said investigators repeatedly heard that Chad told multiple people his wife Tammy was going to die. These messages were sent three months before her death.

Lori responded to the shower text: "Morning sunshine. sure. Call me if you get a chance." Lori and Chad both had multiple names for each other. Chad was called James and Raphael.

Lori was called Lily and Elaina. Hart says Chad was not physically with Lori when he sent the shower text. She was in Arizona, he was in Idaho. Hart says they often implied they had been with each other when it was not physically possible.

Chad texted Lori on July 14, 2019: "I love you so much! You are me greatest desire and my best friend. Now on with the story." Chad then goes on to text "The James and Elaina story." You can read the romance novel to his "goddess lover" here.

Hart continues to read the romance novel that Chad sent to Lori via text message. He's not reading the entire novel, just the portions he belives are relevant to the case.

The next slide shows messages sent the evening of July 14, 2019. Chad to Lori: "Hanging in there, but really missing you too! Please find out the name of Mel's campout in Utah.

I have no intention of going, but I feel it is our avenue to get together, whether she is still here or not." Lori: "Zion's family camp. Mel speaks Wednesday night and Dave speaks Thursday night. Shelly M is their main speaker...eye roll."

Chad: "Well, that should work for me to get away though. I spoke at it two years ago which is when I first met Mel. What time do you fly out tomorrow?" Chad: "My trip to speak at the camp July 24-26 has been approved and is now on the calendar."

Message on July 14. Chad to Lori: "I need so badly to just gently kiss you...for hours." Chad: "It would likely lead to other activities." Lori to Chad: "Likely or Luckily?" Chad to Lori: "It would likely lead to nakedness."

Hart now reads the text messages between Zach and Cole Vallow where they confronted her three days after Charles was killed. They demand answers about what happened to their dad and if JJ is safe. Lori was not responding to Charles' sons, but was busy texting Chad and Melani B.



link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow


I believe they may have gone to lunch - as he has not tweeted for a bit. I shall go ahead & post this - and will pick up the rest in the morning.
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@Niner they recessed at noon today, so this may be all
 
Ruminations said:
Perhaps you are right-

However this motion is beginning to come into focus for me.

I now think they did expect Audrey's statements- both prosecution and defense.

Defense obviously VERY MUCH did not want Audrey's statements given. Defense was very wrong to characterize her statements as untrue in this motion. Defense was wrong to call her statements crap. But Boyce is favoring defense IMO- not for nefarious reasons. Why risk an easy appeal?

The other thing I get now is the expert. Because a big piece of this is: Did Lori (for her trial- the same ?? will apply to Chad) use purported beliefs to manipulate people or hold sincere beliefs that others manipulated? Archibald loves to use sarcasm and word play. The psychological expert is probably lined up for two reasons. One, for if the defense claims she was not able to form intent. (Which I don't think they will try to do.) Two, to say that her beliefs were sincere and harmless and abused. She was sincerely praying away evil spirits. Chad and Alex were out smothering people and knifing them. The prosecution is going to say Lori used fake beliefs to justify murder.

The expert can opine about if the beliefs were sincere or false.

(I'm no expert, but my opinion

IMO, she didn't have the expertise to know about death certificates. Also, she possibly has primarily been around educators with relatively simple financial affairs to settle.

I don't find that to make her a bad witness. First of all, unless somebody is scrambling to assemble money for the funeral and death expenses, it is SUPER weird to come in Monday morning to claim insurance when the love of your life for 30 years and the mom to 5 of your stunned, grieving children died Saturday morning. And it wasn't his first errand, he had already ordered death certificates. Shouldn't he be getting and giving support from and to family and loved ones?

Then, after Monday, Chad had the funeral/burial on Tuesday and a memorial and reunification with his goddess on Wednesday, he moved out of the marital home on Wednesday, and still managed to find time to stop by Ms. Yancy's office with the death certificate he had received.

And if her spidey senses were telling her something was off, and the jury believes she felt something was off, that is going to leave a big impact. Even if the jury was thinking, "that's not an unusual number of death certificates."

MOO
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I don’t think the defence can say that her beliefs were harmless and that she was a sincere believer otherwise when asked where the children were she would have said that they had been saved and were with god or suchlike. She didn’t, she covered everything up, lied to LE and ran away. That to me indicates she knew what they did was against any law on this planet.
 
BUF said:
As the jurors are hearing about Lori texting Charles’ sons their father is dead and not answering any question from them, Chad and Lori are texting to meet up … quite descriptively.

Good way to break for the weekend leaving all this in the juror’s minds. I read some of them seem quite upset.
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I remember how astonished I was when I read that exchange between Lori and her young adult step children.

I WAS introduced to it after the body cam audio of Lori whining about how she raised all those 5 kids (which counts Z and C) and got NOTHING. I thought, well she used them for sympathy. After she blew them off in mourning.

The jury. On the other hand, hears this for the first time along with hearing about gross sexting literally interspersed in that shocking disregard for those boys.

MOO
 
Ruminations said:
I remember how astonished I was when I read that exchange between Lori and her young adult step children.

I WAS introduced to it after the body cam audio of Lori whining about how she raised all those 5 kids (which counts Z and C) and got NOTHING. I thought, well she used them for sympathy. After she blew them off in mourning.

The jury. On the other hand, hears this for the first time along with hearing about gross sexting literally interspersed in that shocking disregard for those boys.

MOO
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You bring up a good point about the jury not knowing the back story here. There seem to be some holes that should probably be filled in even though I realize she is not on trial for CVs murder, it would better explain how the group operated and planned the demise of their spouses and the children. For instance, when Lori disappeared for 2 months, she spent alot of that time in Hawaii but also stayed at Alex's house and I believe left her "stuff" there, whatever that might be. She also actively avoided CV's attempts to have her served with divorce papers, then, gets back together with him for a few months to cement her plans as the beneficiary under his life insurance policy, all the while writing fake letters from CV to CD asking him to come ghost write a book for CV! It is all quite diabolical and was planned for many months.

ETA: Also, some of the texts read today refer to the intervention that CV, Brandon Boudreaux and Lori's brother Adam were planning for Lori. Not sure if any of that info came in earlier, either.
 
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Comic interlude...anyone else get Tom Jones vibes from CV? That one picture makes the opening bars of "Its Not Unusual..." pop up in my brain every time. He seemed like such a caring person who operated with integrity, even when LVD was decimating his reputation. We need more of that kind of steadfast decency in the world.
 
aafromaa said:
Thinking out loud….

LV alibi statement says…
Lori Vallow was in her own apartment in Rexburg, Idaho, when J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan died in the apartment of Alex Cox in Rexburg, Idaho. Defendant was with Melanie Gibb, David Warwick, and/or Chad Daybell.

Is LV admitting CD was at the apartment complex where she & AC lived the night that Tylee died? She gives MG, DW, &/or CD as being with her. (I find the wording of and/or CD very odd.) I get that the alibi statement is false but find it a little revealing that she included CD in it and placed him at the scene of the crime at least for Tylee’s death.

Either she is saying Tylee & JJ died on the same date which would be the 22nd/23rd when MG & DW were present and suggesting that AC killed them both in his apt between 12:11am & 9:41am and that CD was with her behind the locked bedroom door when MG was trying to find her after DW’s nightmare.

Or she is saying that she was with MG & DW when JJ was killed on the 22nd/23rd and with CD when Tylee was killed on the 8th/9th. AC was at LV’s apt from 2:42am to 8:49am so it’s not likely Tylee died in AC’s apt instead of LV’s. And if Tylee died in LV’s apt and LV was in her apt with CD when Tylee died as the alibi statement says, then LV has just put CD at the scene of the crime along with her & AC.

I don’t know whether she is suggesting that CD spent the whole night on either of these dates and not sure whether he had an excuse for being gone from home overnight on either of these dates. But I had not previously considered that he may have actively taken part in the murder of one or both children in addition to participating in the burial and destruction of Tylee’s remains.

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Quite possibly, something 'kicked off' when they returned from Yellowstone between Chad and Tylee, he has told a witnss that Tylee didn't like him. Anything is possible I suppose.
 
Tanager said:
Comic interlude...anyone else get Tom Jones vibes from CV? That one picture makes the opening bars of "Its Not Unusual..." pop up in my brain every time. He seemed like such a caring person who operated with integrity, even when LVD was decimating his reputation. We need more of that kind of steadfast decency in the world.
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yes :)
 
cottonweaver said:
thanks. That is important background

What do you make of this ' He says 14 pages contain hearsay from other people who have not testified - Melani Pawlowski and others. He is asking the pages be removed. ' ( Nate's tweets)

My concern is that Mel P will not be recalled next week by the state. Can Def call her next week?
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I am not sure. I don't think MP is relevant now that all this information is coming out from the icloud account. I don't think it is hearsay because of the source of the information (apple) gives an unamended records of activity on that account. I suppose a way around it is to just leave the conversations in tact and remove the identifying account information.
 
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