Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[nhmemorymaker]

I saw a great comment on youtube iv'e not seen mentioned before, Why would they choose a weekend when MG and her BF were coming to stay over to kill the kids? Surely you would want not want anybody else around at the time?

We often comment on their convoluted thinking......... I have wondered if C and L thought this would establish an alibi for them. .I hold the thought that Melanie might have been convinced that Tylee was a "zombie" already.... And this was a way for C and L to convince her that JJ was as well, given the long diatribe about his behavior just before Melanie and David left. moo

 

[indicolite22]

gotta go back and re-think. Coffee has not kicked in this morning!! i think my thoughts were more about Melanie "believing" she was a zombie.

On the recorded call with MG Lori strongly denied harming her children, so I don't think she previously told MG that Tylee was a zombie who needed to die. MG didn't even mention Tylee on the call. IMO if she suspected from the start that Lori was a murderer she would not have covered for her.

 

[indicolite22]

Omg using the nanny to blame actually would explain very easily


did MG have an affair that we are aware of or slept with someone that was married ? It seemed to me that LVD was threatening MG but kinda in a way that seemed to be like those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones situations. Also MG has acted strangely at times and I thought it was out of guilt - like she felt like in hindsight she might have been able to change or prevent or raise alarms . I also explained away a lot of what she said by thinking she was helping LE so she had to be careful about what she said and how she said it maybe even trying to get LVD by acting sympathetic and explaining to LVD that she got taken in by satan or whatever with the hope that Lori would give up what happened and blame satan and chad or whoever . But maybe MG really had to square her life up and tie up loose ends so that everyone surrounding her knew her secrets and past mistakes before LVD could use them against her.....idk

I think Lori was alluding to MG's relationship with DW.

 

[indicolite22]

I'm not sure what they mean by bucket, but Alex did have a medium sized storage bin with a green top in the back of his truck on surveillance from the storage shed. I wonder if that's it.

Nobody mentioned that the bucked had a lid and the bins from the storage video were black.

 

[CSIDreamer]

On the recorded call with MG Lori strongly denied harming her children, so I don't think she previously told MG that Tylee was a zombie who needed to die. MG didn't even mention Tylee on the call. IMO if she suspected from the start that Lori was a murderer she would not have covered for her initially.

There was a phone call MG talked about. Lori saying Tylee was a zombie and Tylee saying in the background, "not me Mom". Jmo

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I believe MG knew "of" the zombie stuff, but I think it skirted a line for her. Unlike Melaniece, who seemed inundated, perhaps to the point where she became a danger to BB and maybe her kids, MG didn't seem to chug down the Koolaid. Maybe she just took a couple of sips.

When I hear Lori saying "...with all that you know..." I hear a woman trying like mad to convince her friend to believe something she thinks her friend is questioning. I hear a woman presplaining. I think that's why MG was left out of the loop -- she hadn't really converted to the light/dark/zombie thing in her head and while CD and Lori were still trying to draw her in, they knew they couldn't let her in on their darkest secrets.

Of course, that probably saved MG's life, seeing as what happened to Alex. I think MG was addicted to Lori's personality, as many seemed to be, and I think she really enjoyed being close friends with her. But, I don't think the two of them are anything alike down deep, and I don't think MG would intentionally harm anyone.

It may be a long time before the real story comes out--if ever.

Thanks to many of you who have interpreted the "with all that you know" differently than I had. I can definitely see this way of thinking as well.

And I really do believe this completely. But, I don't think the two of them are anything alike down deep, and I don't think MG would intentionally harm anyone.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I bet he wore gloves. The tight, medical kind.

I'll agree with someone upthread who pointed out it's almost impossible to do duct taping while wearing nitrile or medical type plastic gloves. It would preferentially stick to the gloves if a substance such as that.

MOO

Using duct tape in this scenario, I can't fathom even using any gloves. MOO. (I garden a LOT, and therefore MOO)

 

[dixiegirl1035]

We often comment on their convoluted thinking......... I have wondered if C and L thought this would establish an alibi for them. .I hold the thought that Melanie might have been convinced that Tylee was a "zombie" already.... And this was a way for C and L to convince her that JJ was as well, given the long diatribe about his behavior just before Melanie and David left.

Hmm, I need to review the dark list to see if those that had $$ potential were dark. And if some were light at one point, but became "dark" when Lori or someone had potential control of their life insurance or incoming funds on them. (e.g. JJ)

Zombies = like Lou Castro group? (reference to this past Friday Dateline episode where as the leader of the Angels cult, he killed off members when they were short on cash) they had life insurance or other $ for the "members/leaders?" of the group?

 

[indicolite22]

But she thinks it does.

So who is her God? Spiritually it's a relevant question, but not overly useful for the current prosecution.

Watching these two is like watching souls die, with pictures and reported live as it happens.

Apparently she consults God daily on what to do next (she mentioned it in a podcast episode). Which might be to fight against dark beings that are standing in the way of her mission.

 

[JolietJake]

I'm not sure what they mean by bucket, but Alex did have a medium sized storage bin with a green top in the back of his truck on surveillance from the storage shed. I wonder if that's it.

*Graphic warning*

As someone posted a several days ago, it's common for someone with farm-like property to have buckets around for various reasons. It's just my guess but since both the police officer and FBI agent referred to it as a bucket rather than a storage bin, it was a bucket. There is quite a difference between the two and besides, I'd think it would be much easier to move body parts in a bucket rather than a large bin.

For this part of the investigation, this is my theory but if you've ever seen a paper cup filled with water placed in a fire, the top of the cup will only burn down to the water level and the cup won't completely burn until the water is evaporated. It's also been said here that it takes very high temperatures for cremation. Since a human body is made of a large percentage of liquid, I'd guess something similar happened here since the bucket was only partially burnt or melted and that the fire may not have been hot enough or didn't burn long or deep enough to complete the job. We must also remember that CD, AxC, and LV are not the the sharpest tools in the shed.

 

[indicolite22]

There was a phone call MG talked about. Lori saying Tylee was a zombie and Tylee saying in the background, "not me Mom". Jmo

I knew about that. It happened many months before and Lori might have used it in jest, out of frustration when Tylee refused to babysit JJ. It only tells me that Tylee knew about zombies (it is questionable if she believed in any of it), not that she was in imminent danger. IMO Tylee didn't feel threatened by Lori. On the other hand, JJ was killed days after being declared a zombie.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Ah, gotcha. The defense depositions prior to trial and under subpoena on some of these witnesses is going to be brutal, as I believe that Lori and Chad have embarrassing information they will expose on many prosecutions witnesses. I hope the prosecution prepares them for such, and that they have good lawyers at THAT time to prevent some questions that have nothing to do with trial/misleading and cryptic junk being prevented from being asked/answered at those depositions. (MOO - MG will need a lawyer then to be in the room!)

ETA: If not able to be prevented from depositions, I hope at least the prosecution reviews those depositions by the defense for all of them to know what to perhaps file motion in limine for.

ETA #2 for @nhmemorymaker Another thing that you may not know is that the prosecution knew prior to Caylee trial beginning that the defense was going to come after George and throw him under the bus. They actually pulled him aside and told him it was coming that she was going to claim so many false things about him. They did not (error MOO) do a motion in limine to exclude iirc. Do others recall the same? This, to me, is a comparison to potential on this trial and is not off topic, it's background for understanding potential trial scenarios for comparison for trial followers.

hmmm. I assumed the info about George was a big surprise, but I guess not, from what you are saying. Are you saying that the prosecution was not astute enough to get ahead of this??

?? They did not (error MOO) do a motion in limine to exclude iirc?? Can you explain a bit more.

And do scenarios like this with the Casey/Caylee case point to WHY it is so important to hire those PR folks? This does sound more and more important as we mosey down with Chad and Lori.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes, I am hoping that much of this is avoided in this trial with such similarities by having MANY in limine hearings so that such doesn't come up in front of the jury for this trial as I believe, as does @vislaw, this case is prime for such to occur. MOO

I really hope that RW is more experienced than I'm thinking at this point, and can do all that is needed as such.

For those new to cases, (I'm surprised you are new here! You seem very well versed!) per google:

"In U.S. law, a motion in limine (Latin: [ɪn ˈliːmɪnɛ]; "at the start", literally, "on the threshold") is a motion, discussed outside the presence of the jury, to request that certain testimony be excluded. ... The motion is decided by a judge in both civil and criminal proceedings."

ok, thanks for this definition. Seems to me that this will be very very important in this case. Do you think the religious aspects will be treated this way? They seem so very important, as to be excluded.... but I can see the trial getting into the weeds on these issues, just like we do!!!!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Nobody mentioned that the bucked had a lid and the bins from the storage video were black.

Not mentioned due to the fact that it was said that a green bucket was found, and we have shared many times the screen shot of the green ?sterilte top on a tote" like Frazee used? in the back of the truck at the storage unit.

Not sure what you are getting at. What is your thinking with black ones and others that were left there and not in unit when Nate took photos?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

On the recorded call with MG Lori strongly denied harming her children, so I don't think she previously told MG that Tylee was a zombie who needed to die. MG didn't even mention Tylee on the call. IMO if she suspected from the start that Lori was a murderer she would not have covered for her.

MOO, correct in that she never said "she was a zombie who needed to die".

I don't think we've ever heard those two tied claimed together in a sentence from anyone. Just after the fact..putting together, as MG said with Nate interview.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Apparently she consults God daily on what to do next (she mentioned it in a podcast episode). Which might be to fight against dark beings that are standing in the way of her mission.

.. and don't forget those were Chad's words also about Tammy, that (paraphrased) she would support the mission after her death.

 

[mrjitty]

It's kind of pointless to be forensically aware then bury bodies on your own land

 

[indicolite22]

*Graphic warning*

As someone posted a several days ago, it's common for someone with farm-like property to have buckets around for various reasons. It's just my guess but since both the police officer and FBI agent referred to it as a bucket rather than a storage bin, it was a bucket. There is quite a difference between the two and besides, I'd think it would be much easier to move body parts in a bucket rather than a large bin.

For this part of the investigation, this is my theory but if you've ever seen a paper cup filled with water placed in a fire, the top of the cup will only burn down to the water level and the cup won't completely burn until the water is evaporated. It's also been said here that it takes very high temperatures for cremation. Since a human body is made of a large percentage of liquid, I'd guess something similar happened here since the bucket was only partially burnt or melted and that the fire may not have been hot enough or didn't burn long or deep enough to complete the job. We must also remember that CD, AxC, and LV are not the the sharpest tools in the shed.

Warning-graphic
I'm not sure if all of the remains would fit into a single bucket. Putting a bucket on the fire would probably slow down the burning of the remains. IMO the bucket would have slowly melted before fire reached the remains.
Another question: How was Tylee's body transported from the crime scene to Chad's backyard? Could Alex have carried it alone? Maybe Lori helped him putting the body in his truck (in the garage our outside?) and Chad helped with the unloading. If dismemberement took place elsewhere, then bins or bags could have been used.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

hmmm. I assumed the info about George was a big surprise, but I guess not, from what you are saying. Are you saying that the prosecution was not astute enough to get ahead of this??

?? They did not (error MOO) do a motion in limine to exclude iirc?? Can you explain a bit more.

And do scenarios like this with the Casey/Caylee case point to WHY it is so important to hire those PR folks? This does sound more and more important as we mosey down with Chad and Lori.

It's toeing the line that this entire discussion will be deleted as OT/against TOS, so hesitating to go into moreso.

Back to on topic to this case only, Just saying that yes, there are cases here on WS which the prosecution did indeed notify the prosecution witness ahead of their testimony to give them a heads up on the "strategy" of the defense which blamed the prosecution witness/throw them under the bus to get the "reasonable doubt" going. The testimony was not excluded with an 'in limine" hearing. And hope it doesn't happen here as to so much potential for such MOO

I really want this thread of thought to stick, but if we venture out more these may get deleted so I'll stop here, on these threads, and just say heads up here to JJ/Tylee prosecutor that this may be a defense strategy.

 

[RickshawFan]

*Graphic warning*

As someone posted a several days ago, it's common for someone with farm-like property to have buckets around for various reasons. It's just my guess but since both the police officer and FBI agent referred to it as a bucket rather than a storage bin, it was a bucket. There is quite a difference between the two and besides, I'd think it would be much easier to move body parts in a bucket rather than a large bin.

For this part of the investigation, this is my theory but if you've ever seen a paper cup filled with water placed in a fire, the top of the cup will only burn down to the water level and the cup won't completely burn until the water is evaporated. It's also been said here that it takes very high temperatures for cremation. Since a human body is made of a large percentage of liquid, I'd guess something similar happened here since the bucket was only partially burnt or melted and that the fire may not have been hot enough or didn't burn long or deep enough to complete the job. We must also remember that CD, AxC, and LV are not the the sharpest tools in the shed.

When testimony in the preliminary hearing described the green bucket and how it was net to the skull, I just assumed the skull had been moved around in the bucket, and this was an example of dismemberment. It never occurred to me that the green bucket and the skull were not relevant to each other. Anyone else?