887sMtreme
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I don’t think serial killers get plea deals, do they? We’re talking possibly four murders.
Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51
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I don’t think serial killers get plea deals, do they? We’re talking possibly four murders.
mickey2942
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The death of Alex Cox was extremely convenient. I still believe that there is more to that story. I wonder if ZP will be subpoenaed for the case in Idaho. I would sure like to hear what she has to say.
nodamselindistress
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Oh gosh if anyone saw last night's dateline it was horrible what those two girls went through.
887sMtreme
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Yes indeed. And there would have been a great deal more blood than just spatter. I cannot imagine cleaning up an apartment (even a sparsely furnished one) after dismembering a young woman in it and Forensics finding no traces.
nodamselindistress
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I do not believe TR was dismembered - it was a result of the fire IMHO.
Kimmer
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Well they made a deal with Chris Watts and he had 4 so there that.
Love Never Fails
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Chris Watts confessed though. And he didn’t burn up tons of resources through several States. CD and LV are very deceptive. No doubt in my mind that they are serial killers.
Kimmer
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I could not agree more
LinasK
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Actually they can plea to take the Death Penalty off the table. I was watching the case of serial killer Dr. Michael Swango on License to Kill last night, and in exchange for information they took the death penalty off the table for him.
LinasK
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What was last night's Dateline case?
nodamselindistress
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Worse than that, serial killers with a RELIGIOUS EXCUSE. Saying they are doing the Lord's work....UGH.
887sMtreme
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That’s interesting. Thank you.
nodamselindistress
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It was an older case about a guy named Lou Castro who convinced a mom of 2 young daughters, one 10 and one 17 years old, to join a commune in Wichita KS. He then systematically offed all the commune members by arranged "accidents" and slept with the young girls in order to keep his "visions" coming.
Not verbatim but it was my takeaway. His murders were pool drowning, car fell on mechanic, plane crash, car crash, etc.
Angel’s Landing Cult Leader Lou Castro Was Sentenced to Life in Prison | Heavy.com
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I personally FEEL that LV, CD, AC, MP, MG -- all sincere in their beliefs. From what I've read, I'm alone here in that, which surprises me.
Also, if we're going to refer to the group as a cult, MOO, we should indicate what we mean by that term.
Clair Louise
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I will have to disagree with you. IMO, no intelligent person could believe those things and they are not stupid people. JMO.
mickey2942
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I don't believe that they were "sincere" in their beliefs. If they had been, LVD would have admitted killing the wicked Zombie children. And waited for July 20th, when the world was going to end.
Have not seen any of this.
nodamselindistress
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I wondered about bringing up the dateline from last night and I think it stood out to me because that was also labeled a "cult" so hopefully not considered off topic
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Some things I have been reflecting on recently. Warning, may contain some disturbing details as it's covering the awful crimes. I don't mean to be insensitive in any way and it pains me to write it, but I'm just discussing the facts of the case which are very sensitive. Please skip if you don't want to read further.
First, a little about cell pings. I'm no expert, and am only going based on what I have read, so take it for what it is, my understanding only. Cell phones ping and provide time and location data only at certain times, namely:
1) Whenever the phone is first powered on.
2) every 8 hours or so (2-3 times a day) it makes contact with the carrier.
3) whenever the phone receives or sends a phone call, text message, email or other data.
4) whenever the phone moves into an area covered by a different cell tower and therefore receives a stronger signal or connection.
With this in mind, cell phone ping data only gives an approximation of times when the phone is in a given location.
Tylee was last seen alive on 9/8/2019 during a day trip to Yellowstone. According to Chad's probable cause affidavit:
https://localnews8.b-cdn.net/2020/06/Chad-Daybell-Affidavit-of-Probable-Cause.pdf
They returned to Rexburg (and presumably Lori's house) about 8:37 PM. Alex remains there at Lori's apartment for an hour until 9:35, whereupon he then goes to the nearby Maverick and is there for 10 minutes (9:43-9:53). I believe he was purchasing fuel. Furthermore, since this wasn't a fuel stop on their way home from Yellowstone, but rather something that happened after they had already been home for awhile, then I postulate it was fuel which would later be used as an accelerant to burn evidence and/or TR's body. I believe this might also indicate she had already been killed by this point. Which would also mean that it was either Lori or Alex (or both) who killed her. What happened that night which caused them to turn on Tylee and take her life? Was it premeditated, or a spur of the moment decision? I always found it odd that Lori's own daughter, Tylee, disappeared before JJ.
After leaving Maverick's, Alex then returns to Lori's and cell pings place him there at 10:44 and 11:15. At 11:44 Alex is at his own apartment and remains there for at least an hour until 12:44 the following morning. The next phone pings place him back at Lori's between 2:42 and 3:37 in the morning. The amount of time Alex spends back and forth between his and Lori's place might suggest trying to clean up a crime scene (I believe Lori's place), hide evidence, and possibly even dismember TR and get her body ready for transport (it would require two or more strong people to carry her 160 lb body otherwise).
Between 4:37 and 8:59 Alex is back at his apartment, probably to sleep. I'm going to venture a guess that sometime during the night he contacted Chad to inform him of the situation and ask for help in taking care of her body. This based on the number of phone pings (most of the pings would likely come from sending or receiving calls or messages).
Chad would have known when Tammy and other family members were leaving the house for work and would have relayed this information to Alex, letting him know when it was safe to come over. He would also then be able to start getting things ready on his property to dispose of Tylee - gathering the wood, etc.
Alex is then quickly able to get to Chad's place by 9:21 a.m., another indication he had Tylee's body all ready to go from the night prior, likely dismembered and in totes or other containers for ease of hiding and carrying to and from his vehicle. With (presumably) fuel purchased the night before acting as an accelerant, and wood from Chad's place, they attempt to burn the body and other evidence for the next hour or so.
At 10:39 Alex' phone pings still put him at the property. Within 8 minutes though a ping places him in St. Anthony at 10:47 and again back at Chad's place by 10:57. What was the purpose of making the quick trip to St. Anthony and back, or is it an error in the data? I suspect it's correct and he may have run to the nearest store for more fuel for the fire, or perhaps other items (a green bucket?) needed to carry out their evil work. From 10:57 to 11:39 he's back on Chad's property. All told Alex has only about 2 1/2 hours to try and destroy Tylee's body and evidence with fire and then dig a hole and bury whatever can't be destroyed. There's no possible way he acted alone, and Chad was most certainly there helping him every step of the way. And even still they both had to have been working feverishly to accomplish all of that as fast as humanly possible given the time constraints. This is another reason I believe Tylee had already been dismembered prior to getting to Chad's place. It also explains why her body wasn't completely burned and destroyed in the fire - it would have taken too long and drawn too much attention, so they got her remains out of the still burning fire/embers (probably using the green bucket, which was partially melted due to the heat) and buried everything as is.
By 11:52 Alex had left and was back in Rexburg to grab a bite to eat, probably shower and clean up (he would have been hot, sweaty, dirty, had trace evidence on his body and clothing, etc.), and finish getting rid of evidence. By 11:53 Chad had also finished up and sent a text with a cover story to his wife, attempting to explain away the usage of the fire pit and freshly overturned earth in the pet cemetery. A few minutes later, at 11:56, Chad again sends a text to Tammy, this time excusing himself to take a shower from the labors of the day and create an alibi to get away from the scene of the crime.
Fast forward 8 days to 9/17/2019 when JJ was last seen on video:
In the video of JJ playing with a neighbor kid, JJ appears to say something like "Get the h***/*advertiser censored** out of here!" to which the neighbor kid replies "Don't say that word - it's a bad word!" I know it's been speculated before that maybe he's heard that phrase from when Charles was shot and killed, but I'm wondering now if he actually picked it up more recently, say from the night Tylee was killed. What if he walked into something he wasn't supposed to see and Lori or Chad yelled that at him. Being autistic he may not have understood what he had just witnessed, but being yelled at in such a way stuck in his head and he was acting out on it.
Neighbors may have been noticing and questioning disturbing things about JJ's behaviors to Lori, and she'd have to blame it on his autism or tell them it was because he was a 'drug baby', all the while he was becoming more and more unmanageable for her. Especially since Tylee was no longer there to rely on as a babysitter. The next day she interviews a nanny about taking care of JJ, informing her of some of the problems she will likely encounter. She hires the nanny who cares for JJ on 9/19/2019. During the nanny's care JJ seems fine for awhile but then appears to have a nervous breakdown. Says she, "He started crying and screaming. I tried to calm him down, distract him with a show, tell him how sometimes people need a break, and how he needs to share. He threw the chair from their wooden table down, flipped the ottoman over by their couch, and then ran upstairs, I let him cry for a bit, hoping he would calm down, but he didn’t." Lori came home with Alex and a "friend they picked up from the airport" (MG?) and the nanny explained the situation to them.
Missing Idaho kid's nanny recounts experience with Lori Vallow days before disappearance
We know MG stayed with them that weekend, and Lori apparently kept pointing out JJ's behaviors to her trying to convince her that JJ was now in fact a zombie. I feel like Lori was searching for some reason to be able to justify in her own mind taking the life of an innocent child (LDS doctrine teaches that children under the age of 8 are completely innocent of any sin and are covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ, therefore JJ would not be held accountable for any wrongdoing).
On the night of 9/22/2019 JJ was again "acting up" and so Alex took him to his apartment. Later that night, sometime before midnight, Alex returns with JJ apparently asleep (using his medication to induce sleep?) and puts him to bed in Lori's room. I believe that sometime during the night or early morning hours is when they killed him, probably through suffocation (he was bound and gagged with duct tape and covered in plastic bags, and again bound with even more duct tape). I believe they (and I do believe it was both Lori and Alex) did this to keep it as quiet as possible. They again would have had to contact Chad sometime that night or early in the morning and inform him of the situation and enlist his aid.
JJ was small enough that Alex could carry him by himself (he already had earlier that night) without dismembering him. He just needed to get him over to Chad's place early in the morning, before MG and DW woke up, but after Tammy and family had gone to work. Pings from his phone place him at Chad's place between 9:55 and 10:12. Since this accounts for only 17 minutes then Chad must have prepared the grave in advance of their arrival. Either that or Alex dropped him off and left Chad to take care of the details later. I wish we had more details of their movements that day. And where is Chad's cell data - surely that would be a treasure trove of information? Whatever the case, it is apparent they decided to simply bury JJ. They likely realized it took too much time with Tylee and drew too much attention. Still, digging up a grave is not an easy or quick endeavor without the aid of some machinery. And I found myself drawn to the detail given in court by the FBI agent about the roots of the tree and how they had been severed. He didn't go into detail, but it must have caught his attention enough to warrant mentioning it. I wonder if Chad used a small excavator, tractor, or something to dig the grave. Digging it by hand, and chopping through tree roots with a shovel, is not easy. How long was he out there for?
Anyways, those are some of my wandering thoughts at this time. I'm glad they were found and that the wheels of justice can begin their work. It is hard for me to dwell upon the details of this case, and I can only imagine what the victims families must be going through. I pray they may find peace and comfort at this time and in the days ahead.
First, a little about cell pings. I'm no expert, and am only going based on what I have read, so take it for what it is, my understanding only. Cell phones ping and provide time and location data only at certain times, namely:
1) Whenever the phone is first powered on.
2) every 8 hours or so (2-3 times a day) it makes contact with the carrier.
3) whenever the phone receives or sends a phone call, text message, email or other data.
4) whenever the phone moves into an area covered by a different cell tower and therefore receives a stronger signal or connection.
With this in mind, cell phone ping data only gives an approximation of times when the phone is in a given location.
Tylee was last seen alive on 9/8/2019 during a day trip to Yellowstone. According to Chad's probable cause affidavit:
https://localnews8.b-cdn.net/2020/06/Chad-Daybell-Affidavit-of-Probable-Cause.pdf
They returned to Rexburg (and presumably Lori's house) about 8:37 PM. Alex remains there at Lori's apartment for an hour until 9:35, whereupon he then goes to the nearby Maverick and is there for 10 minutes (9:43-9:53). I believe he was purchasing fuel. Furthermore, since this wasn't a fuel stop on their way home from Yellowstone, but rather something that happened after they had already been home for awhile, then I postulate it was fuel which would later be used as an accelerant to burn evidence and/or TR's body. I believe this might also indicate she had already been killed by this point. Which would also mean that it was either Lori or Alex (or both) who killed her. What happened that night which caused them to turn on Tylee and take her life? Was it premeditated, or a spur of the moment decision? I always found it odd that Lori's own daughter, Tylee, disappeared before JJ.
After leaving Maverick's, Alex then returns to Lori's and cell pings place him there at 10:44 and 11:15. At 11:44 Alex is at his own apartment and remains there for at least an hour until 12:44 the following morning. The next phone pings place him back at Lori's between 2:42 and 3:37 in the morning. The amount of time Alex spends back and forth between his and Lori's place might suggest trying to clean up a crime scene (I believe Lori's place), hide evidence, and possibly even dismember TR and get her body ready for transport (it would require two or more strong people to carry her 160 lb body otherwise).
Between 4:37 and 8:59 Alex is back at his apartment, probably to sleep. I'm going to venture a guess that sometime during the night he contacted Chad to inform him of the situation and ask for help in taking care of her body. This based on the number of phone pings (most of the pings would likely come from sending or receiving calls or messages).
Chad would have known when Tammy and other family members were leaving the house for work and would have relayed this information to Alex, letting him know when it was safe to come over. He would also then be able to start getting things ready on his property to dispose of Tylee - gathering the wood, etc.
Alex is then quickly able to get to Chad's place by 9:21 a.m., another indication he had Tylee's body all ready to go from the night prior, likely dismembered and in totes or other containers for ease of hiding and carrying to and from his vehicle. With (presumably) fuel purchased the night before acting as an accelerant, and wood from Chad's place, they attempt to burn the body and other evidence for the next hour or so.
At 10:39 Alex' phone pings still put him at the property. Within 8 minutes though a ping places him in St. Anthony at 10:47 and again back at Chad's place by 10:57. What was the purpose of making the quick trip to St. Anthony and back, or is it an error in the data? I suspect it's correct and he may have run to the nearest store for more fuel for the fire, or perhaps other items (a green bucket?) needed to carry out their evil work. From 10:57 to 11:39 he's back on Chad's property. All told Alex has only about 2 1/2 hours to try and destroy Tylee's body and evidence with fire and then dig a hole and bury whatever can't be destroyed. There's no possible way he acted alone, and Chad was most certainly there helping him every step of the way. And even still they both had to have been working feverishly to accomplish all of that as fast as humanly possible given the time constraints. This is another reason I believe Tylee had already been dismembered prior to getting to Chad's place. It also explains why her body wasn't completely burned and destroyed in the fire - it would have taken too long and drawn too much attention, so they got her remains out of the still burning fire/embers (probably using the green bucket, which was partially melted due to the heat) and buried everything as is.
By 11:52 Alex had left and was back in Rexburg to grab a bite to eat, probably shower and clean up (he would have been hot, sweaty, dirty, had trace evidence on his body and clothing, etc.), and finish getting rid of evidence. By 11:53 Chad had also finished up and sent a text with a cover story to his wife, attempting to explain away the usage of the fire pit and freshly overturned earth in the pet cemetery. A few minutes later, at 11:56, Chad again sends a text to Tammy, this time excusing himself to take a shower from the labors of the day and create an alibi to get away from the scene of the crime.
Fast forward 8 days to 9/17/2019 when JJ was last seen on video:
In the video of JJ playing with a neighbor kid, JJ appears to say something like "Get the h***/*advertiser censored** out of here!" to which the neighbor kid replies "Don't say that word - it's a bad word!" I know it's been speculated before that maybe he's heard that phrase from when Charles was shot and killed, but I'm wondering now if he actually picked it up more recently, say from the night Tylee was killed. What if he walked into something he wasn't supposed to see and Lori or Chad yelled that at him. Being autistic he may not have understood what he had just witnessed, but being yelled at in such a way stuck in his head and he was acting out on it.
Neighbors may have been noticing and questioning disturbing things about JJ's behaviors to Lori, and she'd have to blame it on his autism or tell them it was because he was a 'drug baby', all the while he was becoming more and more unmanageable for her. Especially since Tylee was no longer there to rely on as a babysitter. The next day she interviews a nanny about taking care of JJ, informing her of some of the problems she will likely encounter. She hires the nanny who cares for JJ on 9/19/2019. During the nanny's care JJ seems fine for awhile but then appears to have a nervous breakdown. Says she, "He started crying and screaming. I tried to calm him down, distract him with a show, tell him how sometimes people need a break, and how he needs to share. He threw the chair from their wooden table down, flipped the ottoman over by their couch, and then ran upstairs, I let him cry for a bit, hoping he would calm down, but he didn’t." Lori came home with Alex and a "friend they picked up from the airport" (MG?) and the nanny explained the situation to them.
Missing Idaho kid's nanny recounts experience with Lori Vallow days before disappearance
We know MG stayed with them that weekend, and Lori apparently kept pointing out JJ's behaviors to her trying to convince her that JJ was now in fact a zombie. I feel like Lori was searching for some reason to be able to justify in her own mind taking the life of an innocent child (LDS doctrine teaches that children under the age of 8 are completely innocent of any sin and are covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ, therefore JJ would not be held accountable for any wrongdoing).
On the night of 9/22/2019 JJ was again "acting up" and so Alex took him to his apartment. Later that night, sometime before midnight, Alex returns with JJ apparently asleep (using his medication to induce sleep?) and puts him to bed in Lori's room. I believe that sometime during the night or early morning hours is when they killed him, probably through suffocation (he was bound and gagged with duct tape and covered in plastic bags, and again bound with even more duct tape). I believe they (and I do believe it was both Lori and Alex) did this to keep it as quiet as possible. They again would have had to contact Chad sometime that night or early in the morning and inform him of the situation and enlist his aid.
JJ was small enough that Alex could carry him by himself (he already had earlier that night) without dismembering him. He just needed to get him over to Chad's place early in the morning, before MG and DW woke up, but after Tammy and family had gone to work. Pings from his phone place him at Chad's place between 9:55 and 10:12. Since this accounts for only 17 minutes then Chad must have prepared the grave in advance of their arrival. Either that or Alex dropped him off and left Chad to take care of the details later. I wish we had more details of their movements that day. And where is Chad's cell data - surely that would be a treasure trove of information? Whatever the case, it is apparent they decided to simply bury JJ. They likely realized it took too much time with Tylee and drew too much attention. Still, digging up a grave is not an easy or quick endeavor without the aid of some machinery. And I found myself drawn to the detail given in court by the FBI agent about the roots of the tree and how they had been severed. He didn't go into detail, but it must have caught his attention enough to warrant mentioning it. I wonder if Chad used a small excavator, tractor, or something to dig the grave. Digging it by hand, and chopping through tree roots with a shovel, is not easy. How long was he out there for?
Anyways, those are some of my wandering thoughts at this time. I'm glad they were found and that the wheels of justice can begin their work. It is hard for me to dwell upon the details of this case, and I can only imagine what the victims families must be going through. I pray they may find peace and comfort at this time and in the days ahead.
fuzzybutter
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A close friend of mine was murdered by her brother last Christmas eve. I am also close to her surviving other brother and sister. At first we avoided the house. Emptied the refrigerator and left quickly. But then we realized if we stayed away from the house that we had wonderful memories of dinners, cook outs, tv watching parties, lots of general hanging out and always laughing like hyenas, we were giving her awful brother even more power over our grief. Her other brother and sister moved in and once again the house was filled with people, we told stories, we laughed a lot, of course we cried a lot. But we kicked his evil out of the house.
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