Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #53

[Forever Young]

MG said that Lori would get revelations/doctrine from Chad and then she would explain them/it to the group. I think MG would have noticed if it was the other way around. IIRC, MG was present when Chad called Lori to tell her that Charles was Nick Schneider (aka a zombie).

All second hand information through Lori, so therefore, hearsay. Maybe Chad really did say those things. I still don't see Lori as under anyone's control, because of her back history as to compared to Chad's.

 

[indicolite22]

All second hand information through Lori, so therefore, hearsay. Maybe Chad really did say those things. I still don't see Lori as under anyone's control, because of her back history as to compared to Chad's.

Do you think Lori was the religious leader of the cult? It was Chad's prophetic books that attracted her to him in the first place. Chad sent Lori a letter with seven goals to accomplish together, not vice versa. He rated her family members on the light and dark scale. Even without MG's testimony there are lots of signs as to who was the spiritual leader between the two.

 

[indicolite22]

All second hand information through Lori, so therefore, hearsay. Maybe Chad really did say those things. I still don't see Lori as under anyone's control, because of her back history as to compared to Chad's.

Chad's history was a book author and a speaker with readers/followers. People believed he had "gifts" to predict the future and explain their past lives. Lori had no followers.

 

[Forever Young]

Do you think Lori was the religious leader of the cult? It was Chad's prophetic books that attracted her to him in the first place. Chad sent Lori a letter with seven goals to accomplish together, not vice versa. He rated her family members on the light and dark scale. Even without MG's testimony there are lots of signs as to who was the spiritual leader between the two.

MOO, Chad was not the religious leader of a cult. MG states that there was no group around Chad who met together. Rather, as you point out, Lori shared his answers to her questions.

Chad didn't have Tammy under mind control, and his children all lived to adulthood.

Being the author of some very poorly written religious fantasy novels with a few giddy middle-aged women thinking about polygamy hanging around does not a cult leader make. Especially when you present like Chad, overweight and soft with no self-confidence. I think Lori saw someone very easily manipulated by her attention and flattery.

It also appears that Chad's books, in this very same "last days" genre were not the first ones Lori came across. They are dime-store novels. MO again, Chad played along by answering questions specifically asked by her, hooking him in further, adding to his fantasy of a second wife and higher exaltation.

I will grant that Lori may have been susceptible to hallucinations and may have "seen" her children as zombies, but MOO is that Chad did not order those children killed. All MOO

 

[Forever Young]

Chad's history was a book author and a speaker with readers/followers. People believed he had "gifts" to predict the future and explain their past lives. Lori had no followers.

Except for Alex and Melaniece and MG!

What did Chad have to offer Lori, besides a $430,000 life insurance policy? He didn't even have a decent paying job! I wonder what his own life insurance policy looked like?

Another thing I found kind of puzzling, in the discussions about how much money Chad has left....someone mentioned that he had paid off the outstanding debt on the publishing company to the tune of $200, 000, IIRC. To me, if that is true, while at the same time Chad is the manipulator, it doesn't fit in that he would care about paying what he owed. Most of these types, such as Lori, leave debt and unpaid bills in their wake. JMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

MOO, Chad was not the religious leader of a cult. MG states that there was no group around Chad who met together. Rather, as you point out, Lori shared his answers to her questions.

Chad didn't have Tammy under mind control, and his children all lived to adulthood.

Being the author of some very poorly written religious fantasy novels with a few giddy middle-aged women thinking about polygamy hanging around does not a cult leader make. Especially when you present like Chad, overweight and soft with no self-confidence. I think Lori saw someone very easily manipulated by her attention and flattery.

It also appears that Chad's books, in this very same "last days" genre were not the first ones Lori came across. They are dime-store novels. MO again, Chad played along by answering questions specifically asked by her, hooking him in further, adding to his fantasy of a second wife and higher exaltation.

I will grant that Lori may have been susceptible to hallucinations and may have "seen" her children as zombies, but MOO is that Chad did not order those children killed. All MOO

Maybe he didn't order them killed. But he sure as heck had no problem burning Tylee's remains, burying her using a raccoon as an excuse for disturbed ground, did nothing to save Jj, buried him, and then happily married the murdered children's mother. That sounds a bit abnormal to me. JMO

 

[Teche]

Do you think Lori was the religious leader of the cult? It was Chad's prophetic books that attracted her to him in the first place. Chad sent Lori a letter with seven goals to accomplish together, not vice versa. He rated her family members on the light and dark scale. Even without MG's testimony there are lots of signs as to who was the spiritual leader between the two.

Did Chad rate his immediate family using the light/dark scale?

 

[ivegotthemic]

I've said it before, MG has absolutely no insight into the true character of LV, not realizing that she herself was manipulated so smoothly. I question if to this day she sees it.

People like LV are master manipulators. I have no doubt MG was gaslighted by MG and Im sure CD backed her up. I dont know if any else has experience with gaslighting, but it can be hard to realize whats happening when you in it. Not trying to make excuses for MG, I mean come on zombies, just trying to offer some insight

 

[lake daze]

If you notice Chad's profile mugshot, his nose and chin are actually approximately the same measurement.

Someone like me could not jut out my chin if I tried. It would just appear that my nose is up in the air, or that I was acting "proud". It is just my bone structure. Hard to think that bone structure determines a narcissist or sociopath. My dad for sure had NPD, and he didn't have much of a chin, either.

This reminds me of a friend of mine who "noticed that child molesters have pointed ears". Good luck with that one. Many child molesters do not have pointed ears.

I think the article was more about how a person positioned their head, instead of bone structure abnormalities. You know, holding the head up higher than most people do when getting a picture taken, or when being watched closely. I haven't had time to look for it, and it was probably 6 months ago that I read it. I thought it was interesting when shown pictures of some well known sociopaths. Of course, the author of the article could be all wet, so who knows? LOl.

 

[mickey2942]

I think the article was more about how a person positioned their head, instead of bone structure abnormalities. You know, holding the head up higher than most people do when getting a picture taken, or when being watched closely. I haven't had time to look for it, and it was probably 6 months ago that I read it. I thought it was interesting when shown pictures of some well known sociopaths. Of course, the author of the article could be all wet, so who knows? LOl.

I don't think that studies like that have any validity. Because the author "cherry picks" subjects that will agree with the hypothesis.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Did Chad rate his immediate family using the light/dark scale?

This has been discussed, and I think the answer was "no", last time I checked.

This was theorized to be because the exchange clearly took place in the early days, when Lori was still unquestionably married to Charles, as part of Chad's "flirting language", as it were. He wouldn't have (and in fact didn't, AFAIK) included his own family because Lori had not met them at this point; and so any "ranking" of them would mean less than zero to Lori, and thus would not be helpful in teaching her anything about the ranking system as a whole, or serving as a mnemonic or touchstone.

Largely this is because the entire scheme is as transparent as glass and "gamed" by Chad, in much the manner of your average sidewalk psychic offering psychic readings. Listen to the attractive woman talk about her family for a long time, with every appearance of flattering neutral listening; then parrot back a belief system that makes the people Lori already finds contentious, into particularly contentious individuals with horrible rankings like Charles; then-sympathetic individuals into "good, wholesome" categories (of course Chad is not going to start out at ground zero proclaiming an 8-year-old boy to be Damian); and along the way, some kind of meaningless "sacrifice" ratings for people Chad doesn't really care about one way or another, and whom he doesn't imagine impacts Lori's life a great deal (her grown stepsons with Charles, who were at that time not living under her roof, etc.); so can be treated as a careless one-off ranking that doesn't affect anything ("2.1D; 2.1L" - it's all gibberish for people whom Lori hasn't told Chad "how to feel about").

TL;DR version: all Chad's "ranking system" nonsense is, is confirmation bias in the manner of psychic and tarot readings. Lori has de facto told him what to talk about ("what I mention is important to me"); and what type of ratings to give people ("oh-so-coincidentally agree with how I already feel about them", unless Chad thinks he might need to, at a later date, "change his ranking" about someone Lori seems ambivalent towards.)

I also strongly suspect that if she hadn't been receptive to Reading #1 and Chad's advances, i.e., Lori's response had been to react hotly and negatively and say she loved Charles and thus his ranking couldn't possibly be true, Chad would have in fact backpedaled right on out of Lori's life, IMO.

 

[Satchie]

MOO, Chad was not the religious leader of a cult. MG states that there was no group around Chad who met together. Rather, as you point out, Lori shared his answers to her questions.

Chad didn't have Tammy under mind control, and his children all lived to adulthood.

Being the author of some very poorly written religious fantasy novels with a few giddy middle-aged women thinking about polygamy hanging around does not a cult leader make. Especially when you present like Chad, overweight and soft with no self-confidence. I think Lori saw someone very easily manipulated by her attention and flattery.

It also appears that Chad's books, in this very same "last days" genre were not the first ones Lori came across. They are dime-store novels. MO again, Chad played along by answering questions specifically asked by her, hooking him in further, adding to his fantasy of a second wife and higher exaltation.

I will grant that Lori may have been susceptible to hallucinations and may have "seen" her children as zombies, but MOO is that Chad did not order those children killed. All MOO

IMO, it doesn't matter unless he can produce evidence proving she or Alex informed him of the deaths after they occurred, which shocked and surprised him, but that he agreed to help them get away with it by burying the bodies on his own property: an act that was either remarkably noble and self-sacrificing, or remarkably stupid.

Also, the fact that, having disposed of Tyee, they then showed up with JJ's body, and he was equally taken by surprise..."what, again"?!

And then, to his innocent shock and surprise, his wife just happened to die so, well, why not marry this child-murderer whose previous husbands have had the bad luck of dying or being shot by her brother: of course, that's the natural thing an innocent, God-fearing man would do.

 

[Teche]

This has been discussed, and I think the answer was "no", last time I checked.

This was theorized to be because the exchange clearly took place in the early days, when Lori was still unquestionably married to Charles, as part of Chad's "flirting language", as it were. He wouldn't have (and in fact didn't, AFAIK) included his own family because Lori had not met them at this point; and so any "ranking" of them would mean less than zero to Lori, and thus would not be helpful in teaching her anything about the ranking system as a whole, or serving as a mnemonic or touchstone.

Largely this is because the entire scheme is as transparent as glass and "gamed" by Chad, in much the manner of your average sidewalk psychic offering psychic readings. Listen to the attractive woman talk about her family for a long time, with every appearance of flattering neutral listening; then parrot back a belief system that makes the people Lori already finds contentious, into particularly contentious individuals with horrible rankings like Charles; then-sympathetic individuals into "good, wholesome" categories (of course Chad is not going to start out at ground zero proclaiming an 8-year-old boy to be Damian); and along the way, some kind of meaningless "sacrifice" ratings for people Chad doesn't really care about one way or another, and whom he doesn't imagine impacts Lori's life a great deal (her grown stepsons with Charles, who were at that time not living under her roof, etc.); so can be treated as a careless one-off ranking that doesn't affect anything ("2.1D; 2.1L" - it's all gibberish for people whom Lori hasn't told Chad "how to feel about").

TL;DR version: all Chad's "ranking system" nonsense is, is confirmation bias in the manner of psychic and tarot readings. Lori has de facto told him what to talk about ("what I mention is important to me"); and what type of ratings to give people ("oh-so-coincidentally agree with how I already feel about them", unless Chad thinks he might need to, at a later date, "change his ranking" about someone Lori seems ambivalent towards.)

I also strongly suspect that if she hadn't been receptive to Reading #1 and Chad's advances, i.e., Lori's response had been to react hotly and negatively and say she loved Charles and thus his ranking couldn't possibly be true, Chad would have in fact backpedaled right on out of Lori's life, IMO.

Thanks, I missed that.

 

[Clair Louise]

IMO, it doesn't matter unless he can produce evidence proving she or Alex informed him of the deaths after they occurred, which shocked and surprised him, but that he agreed to help them get away with it by burying the bodies on his own property: an act that was either remarkably noble and self-sacrificing, or remarkably stupid.

Also, the fact that, having disposed of Tyee, they then showed up with JJ's body, and he was equally taken by surprise..."what, again"?!

And then, to his innocent shock and surprise, his wife just happened to die so, well, why not marry this child-murderer whose previous husbands have had the bad luck of dying or being shot by her brother: of course, that's the natural thing an innocent, God-fearing man would do.

It is absolutely ridiculous, isnt it? It is like a badly written work of fiction.

 

[ivegotthemic]

It is absolutely ridiculous, isnt it? It is like a badly written work of fiction.

Would you expect anything less thought... I mean thats about the level of quality CD put into his books, cant imagine hed go the extra mile for real life

 

[Clair Louise]

Would you expect anything less thought... I mean thats about the level of quality CD put into his books, cant imagine hed go the extra mile for real life

And people actually buy that rubbish writing? That is the problem.

 

[indicolite22]

Maybe he didn't order them killed. But he sure as heck had no problem burning Tylee's remains, burying her using a raccoon as an excuse for disturbed ground, did nothing to save Jj, buried him, and then happily married the murdered children's mother. That sounds a bit abnormal to me. JMO

I don't buy it for a minute that Chad didn't call the shots when zombies were concerned. I find the idea of Lori being a cult leader and Chad a follower ridiculous. Someone here suggested some time ago that Chad was doing Lori a favor by burying the kids in his yard. This is the same kind of claim IMO.

 

[ivegotthemic]

I don't buy it for a minute that Chad didn't call the shots when zombies were concerned. I find the idea of Lori being a cult leader and Chad a follower ridiculous. Someone here suggested some time ago that Chad was doing Lori a favor by burying the kids in his yard. This is the same kind of claim IMO.

Statistically mothers in filicide (parental murder of a child) cases are much more likely to occur in younger children, age 4 and under. A case study called Filicide in the United States found that 80% of victims age 6-18 are murdered by their father and that Paramours rarely kill their own children; instead, they more often kill the sons of their predecessors. So statistically its unlikely LV actually committed the murder I think CD more than likely murdered the children based on the statistics

 

[indicolite22]

I also strongly suspect that if she hadn't been receptive to Reading #1 and Chad's advances, i.e., Lori's response had been to react hotly and negatively and say she loved Charles and thus his ranking couldn't possibly be true, Chad would have in fact backpedaled right on out of Lori's life, IMO.

Charles and JJ both received positive ratings on that first reading at the end of October 2018. IIRC, only a couple of months later, Lori expected them to die in a car crash. From the people that were later targeted, Tylee and BB were deemed dark from the start.

 

[indicolite22]

MOO, Chad was not the religious leader of a cult. MG states that there was no group around Chad who met together. Rather, as you point out, Lori shared his answers to her questions.

Not buying it. You have to take into account that Chad was based in Rexburg and the rest of the group was in Arizona. Do you think that Lori would pretend to get ideas from Chad and deliberately not take credit for her own ideas? Chad had a history of going to people's houses and explaining multiple probations / past lives. He had a special subforum on AVOW where he shared his prophecies to paying customers. He wrote several books. He was a speaker at many PAP conferences. Lori did no such thing.

Chad didn't have Tammy under mind control, and his children all lived to adulthood.

IMO Chad had his whole family under mind control. They believed in his "gifts" and his innocence in this case. It takes some brainwashing to reject the facts that were publicly available.

Being the author of some very poorly written religious fantasy novels with a few giddy middle-aged women thinking about polygamy hanging around does not a cult leader make. Especially when you present like Chad, overweight and soft with no self-confidence. I think Lori saw someone very easily manipulated by her attention and flattery.

PAP conferences had quite large attendances. Chad would have remained just one of the popular speakers if he did not twist his doctrine to include murder.

It also appears that Chad's books, in this very same "last days" genre were not the first ones Lori came across. They are dime-store novels. MO again, Chad played along by answering questions specifically asked by her, hooking him in further, adding to his fantasy of a second wife and higher exaltation.

Lori was not the first woman he was grooming. He told others before her that he was married to them in past lives. He told his friend JR that he saw Tammy dying young years before he met Lori.