Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #53

[longtimereader]

I keep going back to MG's glove and hand analogy (Chad being like a hand and Lori like a glove). I think it's accurate in regard to their beliefs.

I understand. I was just noticing that if you only had photos, it could tell a particular story. It isn't necesssrily true..

 

[longtimereader]

Do you think Lori was the religious leader of the cult? It was Chad's prophetic books that attracted her to him in the first place. Chad sent Lori a letter with seven goals to accomplish together, not vice versa. He rated her family members on the light and dark scale. Even without MG's testimony there are lots of signs as to who was the spiritual leader between the two.

Agreed but respectfully I will add that Lori was never going to camp or do his honey do list. She was getting him to help her acheive her goal...get money, dump kids, go to Hawaii and live large. Jmo

 

[longtimereader]

Do you think Lori was the religious leader of the cult? It was Chad's prophetic books that attracted her to him in the first place. Chad sent Lori a letter with seven goals to accomplish together, not vice versa. He rated her family members on the light and dark scale. Even without MG's testimony there are lots of signs as to who was the spiritual leader between the two.

Agreed but respectfully I would add that Lori was never going to camp or do his honey do list. She was getting him to help her acheive her goal...get money, dump kids, go to Hawaii and live large. Jmo

 

[CSIDreamer]

I don't buy it for a minute that Chad didn't call the shots when zombies were concerned. I find the idea of Lori being a cult leader and Chad a follower ridiculous. Someone here suggested some time ago that Chad was doing Lori a favor by burying the kids in his yard. This is the same kind of claim IMO.

I don't either. I've seen him as the enabler and gang leader for some time now. Jmo

 

[CSIDreamer]

Statistically mothers in filicide (parental murder of a child) cases are much more likely to occur in younger children, age 4 and under. A case study called Filicide in the United States found that 80% of victims age 6-18 are murdered by their father and that Paramours rarely kill their own children; instead, they more often kill the sons of their predecessors. So statistically its unlikely LV actually committed the murder I think CD more than likely murdered the children based on the statistics

Link please?

 

[ivegotthemic]

Link please?

Filicide in the United States

the joournal article is Filicide in the United States by Phillip J. Resnick

An Overview of Filicide

An overview of Filicide by Susan West was also super informative/interesting

 

[GRT]

JMOO, but in my opinion, the one who's making the "ratings" of light and dark is the one who is pulling the strings. Chad might not have been a full-fledged cult leader--yet--but he was certainly trying to be.

Lori was fickle, she quickly tired of one husband and moved on to another, but she was also very religious in a fringe sort of way. She was/is gullible, so she didn't recognize the inherent dishonesty in Chad's dime-store novels. Remember, Chad said he based them on his experiences. Chad claims to have had NDE's and claims he receives messages from otherworldly entities.

Lori bought into it lock, stock, and barrel and Chad was able to convince her that her children were not really her children (they were possessed by dark spirits) and the only way to release her real children from limbo where they were trapped, was to kill their former bodies.

That was all Chad's doing and he was working on Melaniece as well. MG left her children--I doubt all those things are coincidences. Chad was building a cult where he would be king and get the cutest women (sister wives). JMOO

Chad had absolutely nothing going for him but his status as a prophet, so we know Lori was not attracted to him for money or for his looks. She already had a better looking, more successful, and wealthier husband. So, I don't see any way Lori could have been pulling the strings. She was just a cult follower who bought into the biggest line of BS ever.

I think she, or she and Alex together, killed the kids at Chad's direction. He probably didn't *order* it but he convinced her it was the only way to save them.

Cult leaders are rarely good looking--they only get followers by convincing them of a spiritual truth that no one else seems to have.
Again, JMOO.

 

[GRT]

Filicide in the United States

the joournal article is Filicide in the United States by Phillip J. Resnick

An Overview of Filicide

An overview of Filicide by Susan West was also super informative/interesting

Only LV didn't think the bodies actually were her children. According to MG, when a person became a zombie, their true spirit was pushed out of their body and became trapped in limbo. A dark spirit then possed the body--a "zombie." Their true spirit could only move on to heaven if their physical body died. So of course, killing the physical body would be the only way to truly save the child's real spirit.

JMOO, but I think Lori and Alex killed the kids at Chad's direction, and Lori believed she was saving her true children's spirits when they did it.

I think that kind of mindset pulls the killing outside the statistical realm of filicide. I guess Lori could have had Alex to the dirty work all by himself, though, but she would still need to believe that Chad was correct in that her children were zombies.

It's odd and convoluted to say the least.

 

[ivegotthemic]

Only LV didn't think the bodies actually were her children. According to MG, when a person became a zombie, their true spirit was pushed out of their body and became trapped in limbo. A dark spirit then possed the body--a "zombie." Their true spirit could only move on to heaven if their physical body died. So of course, killing the physical body would be the only way to truly save the child's real spirit.

JMOO, but I think Lori and Alex killed the kids at Chad's direction, and Lori believed she was saving her true children's spirits when they did it.

I think that kind of mindset pulls the killing outside the statistical realm of filicide. I guess Lori could have had Alex to the dirty work all by himself, though, but she would still need to believe that Chad was correct in that her children were zombies.

It's odd and convoluted to say the least.

To be totally honest nothing would surprise me in this case, and I agree theres no one set of checkboxes that this case could fill, it could probably be dozens. The only reason I lean towards LV not doing the deed herself is they way she manipulated Alex into shooting CV. IMO she has a pattern of manipulating other people into doing her evil deeds so she can claim to have clean hands. That being said desperate times call for desperate measures so, whoever did it wont surprise me

 

[indicolite22]

Woodcocks expect an impartial jury for Chad's January trial

“We sincerely hope they find an impartial jury. We don’t want appeals once they’re in prison. We want them locked away and the key thrown (away),” said Kay Woodcock.

“He has as much chance of getting those charges dropped as I do flying to Mars — unless I can get into Lori’s and Chad’s portals, maybe I can,” he (Larry Woodcock) said.

 

[indicolite22]

A virtual recreation of the crime scene was made for KSL TV:
3D Forensics: Daybell Investigation Wednesday 10pm

 

[dixiegirl1035]

MOO

1- They will get a change of venue - I'm good with such

2- Charges will not be dropped - I'm good with such

3-MG will easily be impeached - Unfortunately, I agree she may be impeached from just what I have read. And the major reason that the transcript of the prelim for Chad is being requested. MOO. To impeach MG easily. And I cringe that jury instructions say that you can take part or throw out all of their testimony, as only takes one juror to hang. I assume/hope motion in limines will address prior to the trial to keep in the phone call, although weird in that is what contributes to her impeachment. How will that play out?

I have in the back of my mind another case where a major player wasn't called due to potential risk of impeachment... was it the Arias case with their good friends or ? Darn, can't recall specifics.

 

[Stopthehate]

A year ago today, Beautiful Tylee may have left this earth. Her beautiful light was snuffed out by one of the people she should've have trusted more than anyone. I am so sorry this happened to you and to your brother JJ. I hope justice is served to the fullest extent. You deserved so much more. Rest easy.

 

[indicolite22]

MOO

1- They will get a change of venue - I'm good with such

2- Charges will not be dropped - I'm good with such

3-MG will easily be impeached - Unfortunately, I agree she can be impeached from just what I have read. Easily. And I cringe that jury instructions say that you can take part or throw out all of their testimony, as only takes one juror to hang. I assume/hope motion in limines will address prior to the trial to keep in the phone call.

BBM. Just curious, what facts do you base your opinon on? Because I don't see it happening.

 

[Forever Young]

Not buying it. You have to take into account that Chad was based in Rexburg and the rest of the group was in Arizona. Do you think that Lori would pretend to get ideas from Chad and deliberately not take credit for her own ideas? Chad had a history of going to people's houses and explaining multiple probations / past lives. He had a special subforum on AVOW where he shared his prophecies to paying customers. He wrote several books. He was a speaker at many PAP conferences. Lori did no such thing.

IMO Chad had his whole family under mind control. They believed in his "gifts" and his innocence in this case. It takes some brainwashing to reject the facts that were publicly available.

PAP conferences had quite large attendances. Chad would have remained just one of the popular speakers if he did not twist his doctrine to include murder.

Lori was not the first woman he was grooming. He told others before her that he was married to them in past lives. He told his friend JR that he saw Tammy dying young years before he met Lori.

Specifically, MO, to the bolded parts, yes, I do think Lori would try to absolve her own culpability in the murders by saying that it was Chad's idea, even though as you state in the original light/dark readings, no one was declared a zombie.

Secondly, that is correct that Lori was not the first woman propositioned by Chad with claims that he had been married to them in past lives, and that he had been saying that for years.

So why was this time different, in that it resulted in the the death of Tammy under suspicious conditions, when nothing of the sort happened before Lori entered the picture? When did the trouble begin? JMO

 

[Forever Young]

I don't buy it for a minute that Chad didn't call the shots when zombies were concerned. I find the idea of Lori being a cult leader and Chad a follower ridiculous. Someone here suggested some time ago that Chad was doing Lori a favor by burying the kids in his yard. This is the same kind of claim IMO.

IMO, after listening to the recorded phone conversation, the body cam videos, the podcasts, etc., LV had more charisma in her little finger than Chad had in his entirety. MOO, yes, Chad was a blind follower of Lori. And just like MG, he was persuaded to lie to the police for her, not because she believed in him, but because he believed in her. Chad and MG were Lori's enablers.

 

[Forever Young]

snipped for focus

IMO Chad had his whole family under mind control. They believed in his "gifts" and his innocence in this case. It takes some brainwashing to reject the facts that were publicly available.

Fair enough, but isn't this a kind of cultural brainwashing that they all suffered from? I say Tammy was not under Chad's mind control because obviously she didn't commit murder for him. How did Lori come under that kind of mind control when Tammy or Chad's children never did, even though they lived with him?

 

[Forever Young]

I don't either. I've seen him as the enabler and gang leader for some time now. Jmo

Realistically, though, can a person be both an enabler and a gang leader? Usually these are two different roles.

Not meaning to be contentious, just conversing my thoughts about the dynamic here.

A year ago today, Beautiful Tylee may have left this earth. Her beautiful light was snuffed out by one of the people she should've have trusted more than anyone. I am so sorry this happened to you and to your brother JJ. I hope justice is served to the fullest extent. You deserved so much more. Rest easy.

Perhaps I have watched too many You Tube videos explaining family roles in a narcissistic family, but I am seeing the dynamics of such a family played out here in the roles of Golden Child, Scapegoat, and the Invisible Child. These are very typical roles that children are handed by an NPD parent who highly values one over the others (CR), blaming one specific child for all the problems (TR), and not even seeing another child (JJV).

The bottom line being that they all are viewed as objects, non-human beings, only there to feed narcissistic supply to the NPD parent, and are quickly devalued and discarded when they no longer serve a purpose.

Sad, so very sad, poor darlings.

 

[indicolite22]

Specifically, MO, to the bolded parts, yes, I do think Lori would try to absolve her own culpability in the murders by saying that it was Chad's idea, even though as you state in the original light/dark readings, no one was declared a zombie.

BBM. I was referring to the time when Lori conveyed Chad's teachings to the group in Arizona. That was before any murders.
She may claim in court via her attorney that it was all Chad's idea. But she took part in his scheme voluntarily.

So why was this time different, in that it resulted in the the death of Tammy under suspicious conditions, when nothing of the sort happened before Lori entered the picture? When did the trouble begin? JMO

When Chad finally met someone equally unscrupulous as himself as well as fanatical about the beliefs he presented them with. Another woman before Lori might not have liked the idea of getting rid of her husband.

 

[ivegotthemic]

Realistically, though, can a person be both an enabler and a gang leader? Usually these are two different roles.

Not meaning to be contentious, just conversing my thoughts about the dynamic here.



Perhaps I have watched too many You Tube videos explaining family roles in a narcissistic family, but I am seeing the dynamics of such a family played out here in the roles of Golden Child, Scapegoat, and the Invisible Child. These are very typical roles that children are handed by an NPD parent who highly values one over the others (CR), blaming one specific child for all the problems (TR), and not even seeing another child (JJV).

The bottom line being that they all are viewed as objects, non-human beings, only there to feed narcissistic supply to the NPD parent, and are quickly devalued and discarded when they no longer serve a purpose.

Sad, so very sad, poor darlings.

I agree but i think theres a borderline personality disorder comorbidity sprinkled in with the NPD (which is common). Her whole vibe screams BPD to me, just from my experience with a BPD parent. obviously not an expert so i could be wrong