Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #53

[salberg7]

Inmates may be able to rent a tablet or other device and earbuds to call, text or email people on an approved list.

The question of who is funding Lori is an interesting one. I think it might still be Chad. He may want to keep her happy and quiet for the time being. It could be Melani, Janis or Summer. I don’t think Colby would help her at all now that he knows the kids are dead and where they were found. And if Melani is smart, she’s putting money aside for her own lawyers. That leaves her mother, who helped create the monster, or her sister.

Yep this has been my question too. Who is funding LV’s defense?

Whose life insurance did she get? Joe Ryan’s?

Since Lori hasn’t been charged with Tylee’s murder, can she use Tylee’s trust from JR? If that’s so, that would be awful.

Must be Chad? We’ll never know. At least it isn’t the State of Idaho....yet.

 

[mickey2942]

I am not sure how easy it would have been to get the SS benefits in another country. Maybe easier than I imagine. It does seem that it would be normal for TR's benefits to be
issued to her parent or guardian while a minor- the program is designed that way:

Are Social Security Survivor Benefits for Children Considered Taxable Income?
Social Security Benefits for Children
Social security benefits are paid to children if they have a deceased parent and are under 18 years old, or 19 years old if they’re enrolled full-time in elementary or secondary school. Other children, such as stepchildren, grandchildren, or adopted children, may also qualify for benefits. Children can receive benefits at any age if they were disabled before 22 years old and remain disabled. Children can receive up to 75% of the deceased parent’s benefit.

Social security benefits for children are never treated as taxable income for the parent or guardian.

Parents Receiving Checks on Behalf of Children
Most checks for Social Security survivor benefits are made out to an adult, such as a parent, on the child's behalf.

news reports said that LDV was using TR's "bank card"

New info revealed in Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan disappearance
www.12news.com › article › news › crime › lori-vallo...
Feb 21, 2020 - 12 News has obtained the probable cause statement for Lori Vallow, the Idaho mother ... Tylee's bank card was used after she went missing ... That same day, a search warrant on Vallow's and Daybell's condo in Kaua'i found ...

not sure if she had a separate account into which her benefits had been deposited before or if there was some special arrangement in this case.

I am not sure how much planning was done for these crimes and the move to Hawaii. CD still had his house and business in ID; they were not sold for cash. I guess there is premeditation for murder, and then there is "planning" in some more long term way. The way these two ran off to Hawaii and were spending money made me think that maybe TD managed the money in the D household and now these two were just on a spree. IMO. It is also a weird contradiction that LVD or CD was telling people that LVD was an "empty nester," and telling other people that she was was hiding the children from family members who wanted to take them. They would have to assume that none of these people would ever meet each other- I think that telling MG that KW both had the children and that she wanted to kidnap them was the beginning of the end of this fantasy IMO. it is more evidence that the children at some point just became a cash stream to LVD, and that they did cease to be people to her. IMO. FWIW, in pictures, they seem to be clean, clothed and well fed which might have made her seem to be a caring parent to an observer.

LVD kept the children fed, and clothed, because it was all about "her". LVD is such a narcissist that the children had to always look good, because it reflected on her.

Reminds me of the autobiography written by the daughter of Joan Crawford, "Mommy, Dearest". A portrait of growing up in a home with a narcissist mother.

 

[salberg7]

Some of you seem to have a lot more knowledge of psychological disorders, cults, etc than I do. So I am wondering if you have any thoughts on the following: Is it possible, do you think, that Lori may one day return to normal, realise what she has done, and be stricken with grief and remorse?

In my opinion Lori is a psychopath and is incapable of showing remorse. A pathological liar who believes she is always right.
Nope, nada, zilch chance due to her psychopathy.

 

[salberg7]

Duplicate

 

[salberg7]

But by the time the police got a hold of her, MG had already been informed by Chad that Kay did not have JJ, according to her own testimony.

We have to keep in mind that MG was under a lot of pressure during this call as she knew she was collaborating with LE against CD & LV. I think under the circumstances MG did quite well in getting those two to talk. MG started out shaky (imo) at the start of that specific call but as she got more confident that LV & CD were being evasive and then straight up lying to her MG got her stride and proceeded skillfully. I especially thought MG scored points against LV when MG appeared to match Lori’s knowledge of Scripture.
MG clearly did not let LV get away with interpreting scripture with an evil theme, and MG came out straight and told LV that LV had been duped by Satan.

I don’t think MG had anything to do with the plot to kill the kids. LV just used her for a while and when MG no longer served LV’s purpose, MG was discarded (referring to LV’s psychopathy). The kids were disposed of, LV & CD were on their honeymoon.

Thank Heaven MG woke up and saw LV for the user LV is and took action by cooperating with LE.

Jmho

 

[dixiegirl1035]

We have to keep in mind that MG was under a lot of pressure during this call as she knew she was collaborating with LE against CD & LV. I think under the circumstances MG did quite well in getting those two to talk. MG started out shaky (imo) at the start of that specific call but as she got more confident that LV & CD were being evasive and then straight up lying to her MG got her stride and proceeded skillfully. I especially thought MG scored points against LV when MG appeared to match Lori’s knowledge of Scripture.
MG clearly did not let LV get away with interpreting scripture with an evil theme, and MG came out straight and told LV that LV had been duped by Satan.

I don’t think MG had anything to do with the plot to kill the kids. LV just used her for a while and when MG no longer served LV’s purpose, MG was discarded (referring to LV’s psychopathy). The kids were disposed of, LV & CD were on their honeymoon.

Thank Heaven MG woke up and saw LV for the user LV is and took action by cooperating with LE.

Jmho

IIRC, MG specifically said that she was not cooperating with LE during the prelim MOO (e.g. not a sting). I'm trying to rack my brain as to the legal significance if that was done... my brain keeps thinking of the words "as an arm of law enforcement" sometimes gets stuff kicked in trials? I wish I could recall what I'm trying to remember as to stuff sometimes being kicked from trials when that happens.

Does anyone know what my brain is trying to think of/significance to such?

 

[Love Never Fails]

In my opinion Lori is a psychopath and is incapable of showing remorse. A pathological liar who believes she is always right.
Nope, nada, zilch chance due to her psychopathy.

I agree with this. Lori didn’t wake up one day with a breakdown and commit a crime. Just reviewing court records from her divorces, Lori has been a psychopath for a long time. She shows no empathy to anyone. She didn’t love her children, ever. They were just useful tools for awhile. Every person in her life is disposable to her.

 

[CSIDreamer]

IIRC, MG specifically said that she was not cooperating with LE during the prelim MOO (e.g. not a sting). I'm trying to rack my brain as to the legal significance if that was done... my brain keeps thinking of the words "as an arm of law enforcement" sometimes gets stuff kicked in trials? I wish I could recall what I'm trying to remember as to stuff sometimes being kicked from trials when that happens.

Does anyone know what my brain is trying to think of/significance to such?

Are you thinking of entrapment? Otherwise, I dunno lol. JMO

 

[DI_Isokawa]

This! I agree!
Follow the money.

Which, IMHO would be a more productive use of our time than psychoanalyzing Lori. MOO and all that.

Lots of mysteries regarding the money. When you try to build an input-output model of Chad and Lori you find the books don't balance in a straightforward way. Like the business of the multiple phones, the planning of the ambushes, the friendly attitude of AZ LE, there are suggestions of support not yet publicly known. Shadows in the haunted wood.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Are you thinking of entrapment? Otherwise, I dunno lol. JMO

I've been googling and still can't recall. I'm not sure it's entrapment I'm thinking of, as entrapment is where that "induces a person to commit a crime" MOO.

We've followed many cases here of folks getting wires and all is good with trials... I wish I could recall what I'm trying to think of.

Thanks.

ETA: But oh, you may be right @CSIDreamer ! The crime she is charged with is not the murder, it's the coverup and actions post murders. I'm slow... Gotcha.

I'll have to relook or others may as this may be what I was thinking of?


Entrapment - Wikipedia

Police conduct rising to the level of entrapment is broadly discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, is available as a defense against criminal liability. Sting operations, through which police officers or agents engage in deception to try to catch persons who are committing crimes, raise concerns about possible entrapment.[3]

All above MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

I've been googling and still can't recall. I'm not sure it's entrapment I'm thinking of. We've followed many cases here of folks getting wires and all is good with trials... I wish I could recall what I'm trying to think of.

Thanks.

I wish you could, too.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Which, IMHO would be a more productive use of our time than psychoanalyzing Lori. MOO and all that.

Lots of mysteries regarding the money. When you try to build an input-output model of Chad and Lori you find the books don't balance in a straightforward way. Like the business of the multiple phones, the planning of the ambushes, the friendly attitude of AZ LE, there are suggestions of support not yet publicly known. Shadows in the haunted wood.

I think the ones doing the psychoanalyzing just need to let us know who is actually a psychologist and get verified. That would be so useful here. Otherwise, it's like me expounding on training elephants lol.

I like the $$ trail. JMO

 

[indicolite22]

IIRC, MG specifically said that she was not cooperating with LE during the prelim MOO (e.g. not a sting). I'm trying to rack my brain as to the legal significance if that was done... my brain keeps thinking of the words "as an arm of law enforcement" sometimes gets stuff kicked in trials? I wish I could recall what I'm trying to remember as to stuff sometimes being kicked from trials when that happens.

Does anyone know what my brain is trying to think of/significance to such?

BBM. Where/when did she say that?

MG spoke with the police on November 26. She told them that JJ had been with her, but Lori came and picked him up. Althought this wasn't true (to which she admitted at the preliminary hearing), she directed police attention back to Lori.

 

[indicolite22]

Which, IMHO would be a more productive use of our time than psychoanalyzing Lori. MOO and all that.

Lots of mysteries regarding the money. When you try to build an input-output model of Chad and Lori you find the books don't balance in a straightforward way. Like the business of the multiple phones, the planning of the ambushes, the friendly attitude of AZ LE, there are suggestions of support not yet publicly known. Shadows in the haunted wood.

Who else could have profited financially from Chad and Lori's schemes? There were 3 life insurances involved (Charles', Tammy's and BB's), a possible inheritance (Tylee's after her father Joe Ryan), the children' SS money and the money Lori stole from Charles in January. That was all limited to a small group. If this was part of a wider conspiracy, surely Lori would have been bailed out by those with more money than Chad.

 

[mickey2942]

I think the ones doing the psychoanalyzing just need to let us know who is actually a psychologist and get verified. That would be so useful here. Otherwise, it's like me expounding on training elephants lol.

I like the $$ trail. JMO

I have never put much validity into a psychological report, written based on case history, and review of file notes. That ends up with a pile of garbage, INMO. That is filled with bias, opinions, and stereotypes of how a person's behavior "fits" a DSM diagnosis.

We really don't know anything about LVD, at all. The trial will be interesting, I look forward to the defense presenting an assertive defense for LVD, with the testimony of a qualified psychologist. Granted, the psychologist would be paid for by the defense, and will provide a sympathetic snapshot of LVD.

Is LVD a "victim" of CD? Was she manipulated by a skilled psychopath? It is one thing to marry men for money, jumping to murdering her own child for financial reasons is quite a leap.

The trial will be entertaining. I hope LVD takes the stand. I doubt that she will though.

 

[Forever Young]

<snipped for focus>

We've followed many cases here of folks getting wires and all is good with trials... I wish I could recall what I'm trying to think of.

Thanks.

Maybe you are thinking of wiretapping laws? There are still 15 states that require all party consent to a conversation being recorded without a court order.

"Illinois
The state eavesdropping statute formerly required all parties to consent to the recording of any conversation or communication, or potentially face felony charges and/or civil liability. In 2014 the Illinois Supreme Court declared the law overly broad and unconstitutional. The statute was amended later that year to allow recording in public places, but still requires all parties to consent to recording conversations where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy.

720 ILCS § 5/14-2 (definition), § 5/14-4 (penalty), § 5/14- 6 (civil damages), People v. Clark, 6 N.E.3d 154 (Ill. 2014)"

Arizona, Idaho, and Hawaii are one party consent states, meaning that only one party in a recorded conversation (the recorder) has to be aware that the call is being recorded.

Recording Phone Calls and Conversations

 

[indicolite22]

IIRC, MG specifically said that she was not cooperating with LE during the prelim MOO (e.g. not a sting). I'm trying to rack my brain as to the legal significance if that was done... my brain keeps thinking of the words "as an arm of law enforcement" sometimes gets stuff kicked in trials? I wish I could recall what I'm trying to remember as to stuff sometimes being kicked from trials when that happens.

Does anyone know what my brain is trying to think of/significance to such?

BBM. Too late to edit my previous reply. I think I know what you meant. MG said in court that she was not directed by police to record Lori and Chad. For example, IP was wearing a wire on LE request. IMO neither was entrapment.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

BBM. Where/when did she say that?

MG spoke with the police on November 26. She told them that JJ had been with her, but Lori came and picked him up. Althought this wasn't true (to which she admitted at the preliminary hearing), she directed police attention back to Lori.

Sorry, still looking for where she said she did on her own and not at request of LE.. and got sidetracked searching for such...

Going back to transcribe from prelim... need a refresher myself for just a little now, then RL and will revisit...

@12:50 She discussed conversation with Lori on the weekend that she was visiting and that she wanted JJ to go live with Kay. And Lori expressed JJ could go to live with Kay and "she expressed different solutions"that she could stay with Kay or the son of Kay that she was comfortable with, "or that they liked JJ and that was a good match and I think that they had a little girl." (e.d. talking about CR?) She said that she would express to Kay that she was sick or something was wrong with her so that she could live with (them?/him) " Clarified upon question "that JJ could live with Kay"

@14:00 re follow up to that conversation shortly after. (e.d. no date given) MG states that the nature of that conversation was MG asking Lori how it went, and she said that they met up in an airport and that Lori had told Kay that she had breast cancer and she would need help with JJ for a period of time and that it went well.

@15:10 re Nov 26th 2019 She was in Pleasant Grove UTAH with DW visiting. That day, Chad called MG late morning on his -9374 call where he said Rexburg police were going to call and not pick up as the police were at Lori's home and inquiring where JJ was. And that she was going to tell the police that JJ was with MG. She asked "JJ's not at Kay's house"? And Chad said no. MG asked CD if he was nervous, and he said yes.

18:57 Within an hour or two, Lori called her after Chad called her. And she was upbeat and cheery like nothing was wrong. (e.d. like she always is, like on the call with Chad when bodies being pulled out of the ground) And that she/Lori had told the police that MG had JJ, that she had told police that MG was with JJ at the movie called Frozen and Lori asked her to take photos of random kids to look like she had JJ. (E.d. this is so strange as didn't Lori KNOW that MG was in another state with David, so why even say that JJ is in Arizona with MG? So easy to find such is untrue )

20:20 "....And that she (Lori) would come by and pick him up then, no I'm sorry, that after me driving home from Utah to Arizona that she would come and get him later that week" (e.d. this means that Lori knew and planned that MG wasn't even in Arizona where the Gilbert police went to the MG house, and that she wouldn't be getting to Arizona for some time as she was with DW in UTAH and was only going back to Arizona for Thanksgiving)...that she told LE she was going to pick up JJ from Arizona later.

(e.d. this is where I previously was really confused, as supposedly the prosecutor is asking about the day of the phone calls initially when Rexburg police were at the house and Lori and Chad called her immediately. As we move into the next minute, it appears she is

@21:55 Prosecutor asks, "did Lori say anything to you about JJ" A: re Kay "She said that Kay was trying to kidnap JJ, and I said how do you know, and she said well, I've received emails, you know, being threatened, that, that was um, that he was going to kidnap .

Okie Dokey, so at this point, a person might say.. you mean that you left JJ with Kay at the airport, and then Kay AFTER that time said she was going to kidnap JJ through emails, and threatened etc.

Normal person here would immediately say? MOO, if I was of the ilk to protect JJ/my friend *cough*.. "oh my gosh Lori, how did you get JJ back to successfully hide him from Kay? Is JJ ok? Are you ok?"

 

[indicolite22]

Arizona, Idaho, and Hawaii are one party consent states, meaning that only one party in a recorded conversation (the recorder) has to be aware that the call is being recorded.

Recording Phone Calls and Conversations

BBM. So is Utah, where MG's call to Lori and Chad was probably recorded.

ETA: BTW, the recording was already admitted as evidence at the preliminary hearing. Why would it not be allowed at the trial?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I have never put much validity into a psychological report, written based on case history, and review of file notes. That ends up with a pile of garbage, INMO. That is filled with bias, opinions, and stereotypes of how a person's behavior "fits" a DSM diagnosis.

We really don't know anything about LVD, at all. The trial will be interesting, I look forward to the defense presenting an assertive defense for LVD, with the testimony of a qualified psychologist. Granted, the psychologist would be paid for by the defense, and will provide a sympathetic snapshot of LVD.

Is LVD a "victim" of CD? Was she manipulated by a skilled psychopath? It is one thing to marry men for money, jumping to murdering her own child for financial reasons is quite a leap.

The trial will be entertaining. I hope LVD takes the stand. I doubt that she will though.

MOO, or a defense like Casey Anthony, who's defense atty put forth disgusting carp to try to create reasonable doubt about her upbringing and child abuse by her father causing not only the issues... but under the bus for the murder. Jodi Arias tried that too and failed miserably MOO. MOO she's gonna do what she has done for all of her life. Lie and make salacious claims against all the men in her life that made her a victim.

That's her *game* in life, MOO