Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #46

[887sMtreme]

I agree with you (I think). There is still a place for Miss and (IMO) Ma'am.

<Respectfully snipped for focus>

A friend of mine is a veterinarian. We were at brunch one Sunday and a rather obsequious server asked if she preferred Ms or Mrs.

She shut him up with, “Dr. is fine.”

 

[smucklecrumble]

Got a feeling Z might know more than we give her credit for.

Defo part of the conspiracy MOO

 

[janx]

I love this judge!
I zoomed in on Chad. He only moves his mouth when Lori is mentioned.
And he’s prob thinking he should have offed Melanie Gibb hindsight.
His lawyer remained frozen like a John Travolta hologram ,lmao!
I’m sure his lawyer pre-instructed CD to remain non-reactive. Don’t move.
Hated the end when Chad smiled at the ...muted/ yes answer.
2 children were dead in your B/yard .What are you smiling about Chad?

MOO & observe

I noticed the same clenched jaw/tight lipped behavior when Nate Eaton was dogging them in Hawaii.

 

[gumchew]

Just my opinion, but she really needs to be in street clothes for her hearings. Otherwise, her attorney can claim a potential jury has been prejudiced by watching her in prison garb. It's actually a right to have street clothes in the courtroom. Jmo

Whether it’s a right or not, she appeared in prison garb in her other hearings. No potential jury will care what her attire is/ was when they get down to the charges. That is a ridiculous defense argument. IMO.

I doubt it would be a defense argument (reactive, implying an appeal), but it's definitely part of a defense strategy (proactive). Jury consultants, or at least the ones I've watched on cable TV over the last 26 years, would likely disagree with you about what a potential jury will be influenced by, either consciously or subconsciously.

I'd be interested in hearing from one of our current or former attorneys on this.

I think the defense will want to do what they can to help humanize her and make her more relatable, so that if by chance they're able to throw some FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) at the prosecution's case, that her seeming more like the average "soccer mom" will make it even a little bit harder for a jury member to vote for a guilty verdict (on some or all charges).

 

[Spartygirl]

OOh yeah.. I cant wait until he gets charged for TD' murder.
I sure hope the tests show that it was a murder and not

Such a wonderful mother, even adopted a challenged child, bet that was all for HER benefit!!!

Oh yeah.. EXCEPT apparently they kept JJ hidden from society according to one of Tylee's friend's mom.
They didn't even know about him.
Her benefit maybe to look good to family but not to the world. JMO

 

[The First Article]

I noticed the same clenched jaw/tight lipped behavior when Nate Eaton was dogging them in Hawaii.

I've watched several of these, and what strikes me every time is how often when challenged Lori looks at Chad and Chad refuses to look or looks in the opposite direction. Where are your children - looks at Chad.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I apologize in advance if this has already been posted but have had no time to back read. Regardless, it's worth repeating/ My heart breaks for these families. Rest in peace JJ and Tylee.


Families issue statement about services for JJ and Tylee | East Idaho News

 

[CSIDreamer]

I doubt it would be a defense argument (reactive, implying an appeal), but it's definitely part of a defense strategy (proactive). Jury consultants, or at least the ones I've watched on cable TV over the last 26 years, would likely disagree with you about what a potential jury will be influenced by, either consciously or subconsciously.

I'd be interested in hearing from one of our current or former attorneys on this.

I think the defense will want to do what they can to help humanize her and make her more relatable, so that if by chance they're able to throw some FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) at the prosecution's case, that her seeming more like the average "soccer mom" will make it even a little bit harder for a jury member to vote for a guilty verdict (on some or all charges).

Leaving defendants in prison garb is called jury bias.

 

[COSCitizen]

This is something I've commented on several times. Many high level cartels, etc...that use burners are methodical in regards to how they're purchased, used once and disposed. The fact that they had that many (I'm going to assume they weren't all unused ones) shows the level of ignorance they have in regards to anonymity.

I am not surprised this group operatesd as such and even kept a collection

I am guessing that TD managed the bills and the shared family cell phone plan. CD probably started using burner phones to hide his extracurricular activities from her, and then decided it was cool. Since she was the family organizer, he wouldn't have had a clue about how to actually use burner phones the way someone who was trying to avoid surveillance by law enforcement would use them.

My partner and I know how how to get the passwords to each other's phones and PCs but almost never use them. (I am the household techie when it comes to troubleshooting.) We also don't use each other's toothbrushes.

 

[gumchew]

Describing behaviour is relevant to their motivations and how they do things. It is a profile, one where the traits and behaviours are fluid and can only used as a description based on available evidence.

Not being able to discuss behaviours and traits in case those also happen to be found in the dsm would make discussion of any person's actions, behaviours and traits impossible. These may also apply to many possible diagnoses or none at all. Many of these can be found in the general population.

It is also possible that a precise description of traits or behaviours for which there is evidence or accusations of may be disqualifying of any diagnosis.

The colour of my hair isn't necessarily diagnostic, but it is descriptive.

Asked and answered! Thank you!

 

[SuziQ]

Was I wrong in thinking Brandon and Melani were supposed to be in court today?

 

[BeckyF]

I doubt it would be a defense argument (reactive, implying an appeal), but it's definitely part of a defense strategy (proactive). Jury consultants, or at least the ones I've watched on cable TV over the last 26 years, would likely disagree with you about what a potential jury will be influenced by, either consciously or subconsciously.

I'd be interested in hearing from one of our current or former attorneys on this.

I think the defense will want to do what they can to help humanize her and make her more relatable, so that if by chance they're able to throw some FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) at the prosecution's case, that her seeming more like the average "soccer mom" will make it even a little bit harder for a jury member to vote for a guilty verdict (on some or all charges).

Of course they will try to humanize her. In my opinion her attire will not have any impact on jury pool. Defense attorneys try anything to see if it will stick.

 

[pizzaman12]

LVD had multiple phones, according to MG, but what is the original source of the "60 burner phones" information?

Whether or not this was the "original" or not, this was from the Dateline Producer

"Police found as many as 60 untraceable phones and said the group also used approximately 30 e-mail addresses."

Twitter

 

[gumchew]

RSBM for comic value

On the other hand, if like their clients they’re narcissistic publicity hounds more likely they’re sleeping like babies while visions of speaking tours and book deals dance in their heads.

The affidavits were placed in their folders with care
In hopes that St. Nicholas (and not Jose Baez) soon would be there

I am sure y'all have some fun at the holidays. I can't wait!

 

[fred&edna]

Interesting older court case regarding prison uniform... did the jury see the defendant as guilty or did the prison attire garner pity?

Estelle v. Williams - Wikipedia

Bottom line:
If the defendant does not knowingly waive his rights then the court must rule the error harmless beyond a doubt or the accused can be awarded a retrial.

 

[gumchew]

Of course they will try to humanize her. In my opinion her attire will not have any impact on jury pool. Defense attorneys try anything to see if it will stick.

I really hope that you're right, obviously!

 

[Sorelle19]

(snipped) I believe that the alleged October trip with Melani (assuming BB had it right) had a similar motive because it came after the failed attempt on BB's life.

This article, pointing back to Dateline, says MG is the source of that information.
‘Cult mom’ friend will testify that Lori Vallow’s niece Melani Pawlowski visited Chad and Lori in Hawaii after the children vanished: DOCS

 

[k-mac]

I agree with you (I think). There is still a place for Miss and (IMO) Ma'am. I almost posted this as a question last night:How would you hail a woman whose name you don't know to get her attention? "Excuse me, ____?" For me, probably owing to my age and where and when I was raised (and by whom), I would tend to fill in "Miss" for a woman younger than me, "Ma'am" for a woman roughly the same age or older than me. I will tend to use "Ms. ____" to refer to any woman whose preferred surname I already know, regardless of any marital status. But it would take a ton of retraining to bring myself to use "Ms." in the "Excuse Me, ___" scenario.

MOO

i think its lovely when miss, ma'am, ms, sir etc are used to speak to a person.

being affended by old fashioned curtesy and manners is ugly.

moo

 

[Sachi]

To be fair, getting caught holding 60 phones and 30 email addresses would fall into that "not technically savvy" as least to me...even if I toss in being sloppy to the mix.

ahhh yah, she's savvy

 

[gumchew]

I'm wondering, too, if AxC's death was not natural. He died in AZ, right? LVD or CD weren't in AZ at that time, were they? IIRC, he had Narcan in his system. I think first responders administer that when they suspect an overdose. So that could be why it was in his system. But what if he did take some type of drugs? Could LVD or CD have paid him with drugs, for his "work" in getting rid of the kids? All JMO

LVD and CD were not even in the mainland US at that time. We've talked this through ad nauseam, ad infinitum it seems. The Narcan was there because first responders found him unresponsive and administered it as a precaution, since they couldn't be sure he was NOT an overdose. But the ME report showed no opioids in his system. And his natural cause of death is supported by medical findings in his organs/body.

Janky as the timing looks, the only non-legit thing about his death IMO is the timing. This is why the word "coincidence" exists. AFAIK, the authorities consider his death a closed matter. I will be thrilled if they reopen it later on, but it seems really doubtful.