Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #46

[wenwe4]

I am really curious about the local news feeds in this area. My mom used to work at one of the local stations in Idaho Falls (KIFI-8) back in it's heyday. Now it's localnews8 or EIN (I think) but I doubt whether Madison or Fremont County jails pays for a lot of cable or network channels for the inmates. I imagine there is a communal room with 1 television and perhaps they are allowed to purchase their own? Either way, big breaking news in the local area specifically concerning inmates within the facility - I think both LVD & CD got to watch some of the coverage. Do they have access to newspapers (ie: Post Register) or is that considered a luxury that inmates have to pay for?

 

[Drc40]

No sociopath is not official, but is a useful regular people distinction between two variants of a similar diagnosis which I find quite useful despite it not meeting the dsm's needs for classification. These two variants also seem to be colloquially used by those with ASD diagnoses quite regularly for ease of use and self-identification of their variances. Younger people with these seem to be more likely to identify as ASD unless they are pretty pure on their psychopathy, then they just plain own it as psychopathy so the same self-categorization is in effect but instead of them identifying as sociopaths and psychopaths younger people are more likely to put themselves into the ASD or psychopath buckets, making ASD identification more commonly people who would identify as sociopaths. Psychopaths like being psychopaths.

There is some possible brain structure reasons why these two categories seem to continue to exist to those who fall into this diagnostic criteria, which those who know they are like this seem to acknowledge between each other. It is also why those same two groups would not possibly identify CD - he has traits that don't fit. (I suspect he is a malignant narcissist, meaning that some of the same issues are present and possibly his association with other people in this exacerbated his symptoms.) This is a self-sorting distinction that people who fall into this overarching set of symptoms use themselves and identification that they recognize the distinction in others.

Just a general observation, as this is just one of my many areas of interest not one in which I have a degree. I bet finding out that there is psychopathy sub-culture won't sit well with people (and no I don't think these people would know about it .... well except JM. He might.)

I think you explained this kind of right. My wife is a Psychologist and I was going to ask her when she finishes with her patients today but we’ve had the discussion before when I mistakingly called someone a sociopath. Sociopathy is a behavior associated with two different diagnosis, if I recall correctly. I think one youre born with and one you develop. I know she’s corrected me many times when calling people narcissists and sociopaths but I still get it wrong. In our world we seem to use these terms incorrectly and they don’t match up with her clinical world. I always just say “ok, they’re crazy”. I still get reprimanded

 

[Drc40]

I ask my self this question in every case, I also always ask my self, if this person was adopted at birth by my family would they have turned out to have the same evil traits? If so then its genetic and technically not their fault, If not it could be environmental in which case again is it really their fault? Any of us could have been born as LV or CD and gone on to do these things, Thank fully we were not, But i often wonder can you ever really blame anybody in this crazy life? Why do some people end up making such evil choices and others do not. Its always just sad all the way around for everybody involved.

And this is probably what @The First Article was talking about and what I mentioned above. I think this can be determined but they have to be done by a mental health professional.

 

[Gardenkeep]

Thoughts, Questions:

1. Judge Eddins was originally removed by the defense on the initial charges against LVD. Defense's reasons for removal were never made available, and the right to removal can only be used once as was explained. He is now presiding over the new charges against both LVD and CD. Since these are new charges, can defense again request removal, or would the one time only stipulation still apply? Is there a possibility either defense would utilize this again, and why?
2. Atty Means, during the hearing concerning LVD's bond, stated that his representation included both LVD and her current husband CD, noting there were no legal charges for CD at the time. In this current hearing of new charges, he states he never represented CD. However DA Wood, did counter this statement. Since Means does have a previous link to CD, will he be removed from the case? If he is, will a public defense attorney be assigned, is there a possibility the two cases will be tried together under one or both of the current attorneys? Would there be an advantage to either defense or DA if the cases remain separate, and are not tried together?
3. Please note, this question contains graphic subject matter: It has been noted that tissue as well as bone evidence is involved in TR's autopsy. Is it possible that the tissue can yield trace and toxicology evidence that the bone cannot? Would it matter what tissue it was and/or how far it has been degraded?

I welcome answers from fellow websleuthers who likely have tons more knowledge than I do about these questions!

CR & wife, KW & husband: I cannot imagine the depth of grief and turmoil these family members are experiencing. I would guess that they will be present at every single court event until the end. They all need to understand why and arrive at the truth of LVD's actions and motivations. This is someone they loved and respected. Their sense of betrayal by LVD has to be as deep and stinging as the loss and grief they are feeling for the children. Nothing will ever feel the same for them. My heart truly breaks with sympathy and sorrow. I hope the truth will out so that there will be some comfort (never closure, unfortunately) in understanding why.

 

[Hatfield]

I ask my self this question in every case, I also always ask my self, if this person was adopted at birth by my family would they have turned out to have the same evil traits? If so then its genetic and technically not their fault, If not it could be environmental in which case again is it really their fault? Any of us could have been born as LV or CD and gone on to do these things, Thank fully we were not, But i often wonder can you ever really blame anybody in this crazy life? Why do some people end up making such evil choices and others do not. Its always just sad all the way around for everybody involved.

JMO
I ponder that still myself. Its a very interesting topic.

One of the best classic movies I have ever seen was "The Bad Seed" which contemplates whether or not people can be genetically predisposed to be a bad person when they grow up.

Its a great movie and scared the beeheyzeus out of me the first time I saw it.

 

[Forever Young]

No sociopath is not official, but is a useful regular people distinction between two variants of a similar diagnosis which I find quite useful despite it not meeting the dsm's needs for classification. These two variants also seem to be colloquially used by those with ASD diagnoses quite regularly for ease of use and self-identification of their variances. Younger people with these seem to be more likely to identify as ASD unless they are pretty pure on their psychopathy, then they just plain own it as psychopathy so the same self-categorization is in effect but instead of them identifying as sociopaths and psychopaths younger people are more likely to put themselves into the ASD or psychopath buckets, making ASD identification more commonly people who would identify as sociopaths. Psychopaths like being psychopaths.

There is some possible brain structure reasons why these two categories seem to continue to exist to those who fall into this diagnostic criteria, which those who know they are like this seem to acknowledge between each other. It is also why those same two groups would not possibly identify CD - he has traits that don't fit. (I suspect he is a malignant narcissist, meaning that some of the same issues are present and possibly his association with other people in this exacerbated his symptoms.) This is a self-sorting distinction that people who fall into this overarching set of symptoms use themselves and identification that they recognize the distinction in others.

Just a general observation, as this is just one of my many areas of interest not one in which I have a degree. I bet finding out that there is psychopathy sub-culture won't sit well with people (and no I don't think these people would know about it .... well except JM. He might.)

DSM diagnoses are subject to frequent change:

"The first version of the DSM in 1952 listed sociopathic personality disturbance"

"The category was described as more specific and limited than the existing concepts of "constitutional psychopathic state" or "psychopathic personality" which had had a very broad meaning; the narrower definition was in line with criteria advanced by Hervey M. Cleckley from 1941, while the term sociopathic had been advanced by George Partridge in 1928 when studying the early environmental influence on psychopaths."

Antisocial personality disorder - Wikipedia

For everyday use, these three terms are more or less interchangeable. JMO

 

[The First Article]

And this is probably what @The First Article was talking about and what I mentioned above. I think this can be determined but they have to be done by a mental health professional.

Yeah, I suspect these but mostly I would suggest we all keep to a list of symptoms and traits so as to avoid applying a diagnosis. It just happens to be that I doubt anyone with these two diagnoses would care that they are being applied, as they either don't think they have them, think its a superior cognition system, or agree and it does not effect them to do so.

Any OTHER diagnosis would find people who care about being lumped in with these people.

This is why I've qualified this with it being my assessment that of CD and LVD and I'm relying on the fact that people with these diagnoses won't care that I have.

edit to add: It is actually more likely that anyone with these conditions who is annoyed by my identifying these two with NPD (malignant) and ASD (nuture & conduct disorder) will actually be annoyed with LVD & CD's mistakes as reflecting on themselves. So they are more likely to complain that CD&LVD were not good enough at it to be like themselves.

 

[Forever Young]

Can we look into both of their childhoods? What happened to make people do this? Is it just bad seeds?

I would refer you again to the Wikipedia article which states both genetic and environmental factors for antisocial personality disorder.

I believe "attachment disorder", in which an infant or child feels rejected by the primary caretaker is thought to be the first condition of personality disorders.

Attachment disorder - Wikipedia

 

[The First Article]

I would refer you again to the Wikipedia article which states both genetic and environmental factors for antisocial personality disorder.

I believe "attachment disorder", in which an infant or child feels rejected by the primary caretaker is thought to be the first condition of personality disorders.

Attachment disorder - Wikipedia

Attachment disorder in their cultural milieu may still be hard to identify as some of baby and parenting practices normal in their social groups see some of these parenting practices as the best type of parenting, masking where the issues may stem from.

 

[GRT]

April Raymond, Lori Vallow's former friend:
Raymond told Grace that Lori Vallow's late daughter, Tylee Ryan, was always sick with “a lot of health issues” and Lori Vallow was her caretaker. Tylee always be sent to her her room to recover from surgeries she had, which were done to find out what was making her sick.
ETA link:
Fox Nation special with Nancy Grace reveals new information about Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow

That sounds suspiciously like Munchausen by proxy syndrome. Just a complete guess however.

 

[janx]

I am really curious about the local news feeds in this area. My mom used to work at one of the local stations in Idaho Falls (KIFI-8) back in it's heyday. Now it's localnews8 or EIN (I think) but I doubt whether Madison or Fremont County jails pays for a lot of cable or network channels for the inmates. I imagine there is a communal room with 1 television and perhaps they are allowed to purchase their own? Either way, big breaking news in the local area specifically concerning inmates within the facility - I think both LVD & CD got to watch some of the coverage. Do they have access to newspapers (ie: Post Register) or is that considered a luxury that inmates have to pay for?

Someone raised this question a few days ago. I don't know how to find out, but apparently LVD is in general population, which makes the question even more interesting.

 

[The First Article]

JMO (for whatever it's worth, lol) But, no... I don't think Chad and Lori can communicate, but I DO believe there is communication between Means and Prior.

This case has enraged me from day 1, but I think Lori has to maintain the "show" that she strongly believed (and still believes) in this zombie mumbo-jumbo as an "excuse".

I believe it's always been a manipulated-religious "show" for Lori and Chad.

LVD it seems to be part of her religious delusions. CD appears to have genuine belief in his myths. I suspect that the compartimentalization in someone like CD is hard to digest for many people and I think more so for women. Taking advantage of others is his reward for being righteous, and you being available to it is your designated role by his god. Just the same way that living as a god king of a world on fire doesn't strike you as heaven but there are clearly people who do.

(The Comedian, Watchmen, "the smartest man on the Cinder" seems to apply)

 

[Spartygirl]

Does that mean that if your friend shows up at your doorstep with a body and you help destroying and/or burying it (no matter where), no questions asked, you could only get 5 years?

Oh MY!!
I wonder if that is just in the state of Idaho or common penalty for assisting to bury a body everywhere ?? (Asking for a friend LOL)

 

[gumchew]

@gumchew

I meant to reply to your post in the last thread about the 60 burner phones and more cult members, but got sidetracked and lost the opportunity. I've copied your post below :


Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #45


I wondered where your source for this was please?

TIA

I'll have to count on the kindness of my fellow sleuths here in helping identify the original source, as I was not the original poster of this information. As I recall, @indicolite22 mentioned that it came from Nate Eaton at EIN. Google isn't helping me much in finding it. I'll gladly report my own post if you object. The world will no doubt continue spinning at full speed with one less of my snarky comments floating about

 

[Diddian]

That sounds suspiciously like Munchausen by proxy syndrome. Just a complete guess however.

The good news is that LE in AZ conducted search warrants to collect records from the physicians who treated both JJ and TR.

So, LE has the records and isn't left only with hearsay knowledge about what medical treatments or procedures TR received, based solely upon what came out of LVD's lying mouth.

 

[pizzaman12]

1pm MST zoom meeting

Nate Eaton - Reporter

 

[Spartygirl]

Also, I read the first first page of every thread and it says that if you start a post with off topic it will be deleted. I haven’t gotten in trouble yet and I hope I don’t by posting this. But you guys have been my family so to speak when I got sick and found this site and actually, well comfort here. I don’t really have family.
So this is off topic. But I got accepted into the Bioethics Masters program today. I just needed to share that. Thank you for letting me.
Back to Sleuthing. I’m pretty much a Sleuther for life now.

First- Glad you are feeling better !!
Second--YAY and Congrats.. The program sounds quite interesting.
Third- It is nice to have a "sleuthing" family and that is definitely what WS is, IMO

Now to get back to CD-- did I read that his court hearing today is for the NEW charges ?? The same ones LVD received yesterday ?

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Yeah, I suspect these but mostly I would suggest we all keep to a list of symptoms and traits so as to avoid applying a diagnosis. It just happens to be that I doubt anyone with these two diagnoses would care that they are being applied, as they either don't think they have them, think its a superior cognition system, or agree and it does not effect them to do so.

Any OTHER diagnosis would find people who care about being lumped in with these people.

This is why I've qualified this with it being my assessment that of CD and LVD and I'm relying on the fact that people with these diagnoses won't care that I have.

edit to add: It is actually more likely that anyone with these conditions who is annoyed by my identifying these two with NPD (malignant) and ASD (nuture & conduct disorder) will actually be annoyed with LVD & CD's mistakes as reflecting on themselves. So they are more likely to complain that CD&LVD were not good enough at it to be like themselves.

We've already been instructed to stay off this topic.

 

[Tortoise]

I'll have to count on the kindness of my fellow sleuths here in helping identify the original source, as I was not the original poster of this information. As I recall, @indicolite22 mentioned that it came from Nate Eaton at EIN. Google isn't helping me much in finding it. I'll gladly report my own post if you object. The world will no doubt continue spinning at full speed with one less of my snarky comments floating about

Thanks - I haven't seen that* stated before and thought I might have missed another new fact for our next timeline (which is still in the works)

*for context - this is the claim that 60 phones were siezed all at once in the same place.

 

[The First Article]

We've already been instructed to stay off this topic.

I've listed the symptom lists a few times, adding as I go occasionally.