Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #2

[jjenny]

Yes, this claim about 'custody' battle seems to be something possibly concocted by Lori and Chad attorney to create the idea of a battle between 'them' and 'LE' or 'them' and 'other family members'.

In reality, given that LE is claiming there is no custody battle the issue is a 'non issue' and simply being used as an excuse by Lori and Chad to hide and not cooperate.

Seems all a bit too convenient IMO to have a phantom custody battle when the real issue is that LE, the various family members and the public simply want to know that the 2 missing children are alive and well.

MOO

Exactly. There is no custody battle since two people who presumably would have wanted custody (the fathers) are dead. I imagine grandparents were told by a lawyer they don't have a shot at custody because grandparents don't have much custody rights. If CPS was involved, I presume journalists would have dug it out (they done in other cases). So this custody battle claim doesn't hold water.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Well, maybe it would be of use for mods to clarify what is it we can not discuss. What I was discussing about Julie is in msm, yet my post about it is gone.

I actually searched the site the other day over all this. For some reason I came away with the impression "you can talk about what is being said about a POI but you can't sleuth the person saying it". I'll see if I can find it again. Hopefully, we get some guidance soon.

 

[sarabean]

Have you looked for her on Tik Tok? https://www.tiktok.com/en/
I see a girl named Tylee on there that looks like her but I'm not sure it's her.

Do you have to have an account to search for people/watch videos? (Maybe I should just bite the bullet and get one since I have a 14 year old and a 13 year old! They TELL ME they aren’t on there, but.... ya know.)

 

[CSIDreamer]

@Maxxer500 do you know if Lori ever personally met Tammy?

 

[jjenny]

I actually searched the site the other day over all this. For some reason I came away with the impression "you can talk about what is being said about a POI but you can't sleuth the person saying it". I'll see if I can find it again. Hopefully, we get some guidance soon.

My understanding always was that what is published in msm can be discussed.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

So the big bouncing ball in this story is likely Charles' life insurance payout. While it's guessed that Charles took Lori out as beneficiary of his $2M policy, it's likely that he named JJ as the new bene. Now, since Charles knew Lori was gunning for him, and being properly paranoid (not enough evidently) he should have made the funds go into an account that is not controlled by Lori. He could have named someone other than Lori as Trustee of his funds. So, it's likely that JJ is now a multi-millionaire, with $2M in the stock market earning 15%. What is Lori to do? This could be the nexus of the "Custody" battle. It's not a custody battle over JJ necessarily, but over the $2 Million.

What's a whacky cult nut job to do? Hide out, hide your wife, hide your kids, they rapin' eva body out here, and hire an attorney, evidently.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

Exactly. There is no custody battle since two people who presumably would have wanted custody (the fathers) are dead. I imagine grandparents were told by a lawyer they don't have a shot at custody because grandparents don't have much custody rights. If CPS was involved, I presume journalists would have dug it out (they done in other cases). So this custody battle claim doesn't hold water.

The other issue that I thought might be driving the issue of 'custody' is that perhaps Charles set up some kind of 'health care trust' for JJ so that he would have funds over his entire lifetime to cover his health and well being. Sometimes parents of special needs children set up these trusts to provide for their children in the event that something happens to the parents.

Perhaps Lori knew that such a trust existed and so sought to take physical possession of JJ so as to have access to the funds for his care? There are no public details about Charles will or any provisions for Lori or the children upon his death. But, it was clear from the comments of Charles sister Kay that Charles did have substantial means.

Charles by all that we heard from his sister Kay in the GH interview loved and cared for JJ and he had the means I believe to set aside funds for JJ care too.

Given that we have a definitive statement from LE that there 'is no custody issue', I'm inclined to believe LE over anything emanating from the 'Lori and Chad Camp of Crazy' on the topic.

Lori had responsibility for safeguarding the 2 missing children and the idea that she and her husband are not cooperating with LE and hiding behind lawyers is unconscionable behaviour IMO.

But Lori and Chad seem to be taking the overall situation from bad to worse IMO by inserting a lawyer into the mix who is making claims about custody and the presence of 'additional information' to justify the non cooperation of his clients with LE.

I also keep going back to the GH interview with Charles sister Kay where she describes how it was Charles' money that basically supported Lori and her entire extended family. We have also seen the Lori Venmo payments to Ryan family members as well. If the issue at hand really is access to cash from whatever was left from Charles for JJ then perhaps JJ is still alive. But given what we have seen it could also be possible that JJ was killed but money for his care still accessed by Lori and Chad which IMO would be absolutely diabolical.

MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

My understanding always was that what is published in msm can be discussed.

Same. I'm talking about sleuthing peripheral players who aren't named POI. I'm sure you get my drift. At any rate, I'm dropping it as no sense in getting the both of us in trouble.

 

[mickey2942]

Another DM article with pictures of many of the people involved with the case to make it easier to put a name and a face together.

Family of missing children say mother Lori Vallow 'joined cult' | Daily Mail Online

DM timeline of the disappearance of 2 children:

Timeline of Joshua and Tylee's disappearance
July 11: Lori Vallow's husband, Charles Vallow, killed in self-defense by her brother, Alex Cox, in Arizona following an argument between the three people

August: The last time Joshua's grandparents, Kay and Larry Woodcock, said they saw the boy via FaceTime

August: September: Lori moved children Joshua and Tylee to Rexburg, Idaho

September 23: The last time Joshua was seen at his school in Idaho

October: Activity found on a Venmo account that may belong to Tylee

October 19: Chad Daybell's wife, Tammy Daybell, dies at their home in Rexburg. Officials rule her death to be of natural causes

October 22: Tammy is buried in Springville, Utah

Late October: Lori and Chad get married

November 26: Out-of-state relatives ask Idaho police to perform a welfare check on Joshua. Lori and Chad claim he is in Arizona with a family friend. Police also learn Tylee has not been seen since September, either

November 27: Police execute a search warrant at Lori and Chad's home, discovering the couple have fled the city

December 11: Tammy Daybell's body is exhumed from the Utah cemetary

December 12: Lori's brother, Alex Cox, believed to have died in Arizona

This is an excellent summary.
When did Chad and Lori go to Hawaii? Or was that Lori and Charles? It seems like Lori and Charles went to Hawaii frequently, probably because of Charles' business.

 

[afitzy]

Same. I'm talking about sleuthing peripheral players who aren't named POI. I'm sure you get my drift. At any rate, I'm dropping it as no sense in getting the both of us in trouble.

Yes, but its getting complicated because of the podcasts from Julie Rowe and people mentioned in the GH podcasts as well.

I'm going to report my own post here and ask for Mod clarification as the number of posts deleted (mine included) is substantial.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

So the big bouncing ball in this story is likely Charles' life insurance payout. While it's guessed that Charles took Lori out as beneficiary of his $2M policy, it's likely that he named JJ as the new bene. Now, since Charles knew Lori was gunning for him, and being properly paranoid (not enough evidently) he should have made the funds go into an account that is not controlled by Lori. He could have named someone other than Lori as Trustee of his funds. So, it's likely that JJ is now a multi-millionaire, with $2M in the stock market earning 15%. What is Lori to do? This could be the nexus of the "Custody" battle. It's not a custody battle over JJ necessarily, but over the $2 Million.

What's a whacky cult nut job to do? Hide out, hide your wife, hide your kids, they rapin' eva body out here, and hire an attorney, evidently.

MOO

*lightbulb moment* Thanks!

Now that moves to a new area that I had not thought of. If he took Lori off, who did he put on. He wouldn't MOO put a minor as a beneficiary with that type of instrument unless it was a trust. That set up an executor of sort for the trust for JJ. That would take time. MOO. If it were me, it would be a family member who I knew would take care of JJ if I didn't have time to set up a trust. Beneficiary vs. trust, two different things.

I wonder when Lori found out that she wasn't beneficiary, and who it was/where it was to go.

But if JJ gone... ??? What then???

MOO

ETA: just saw @afitzy post... that one is better than this post that was done at the same time/crossposted

 

[afitzy]

This is an excellent summary.
When did Chad and Lori go to Hawaii? Or was that Lori and Charles? It seems like Lori and Charles went to Hawaii frequently, probably because of Charles' business.

Yes, that article has one of the better summaries of a lot of information that we have available IMO.

Here is a picture from the article that explains the vast distances involved in this case and why it might be taking LE so long to find the 2 missing children (particularly if Chad and Lori and Chad's family aren't cooperating with LE):

Quotes from DM article:

Kay and husband Larry Woodcock told Fox 10 that they last saw Joshua via FaceTime in August and that Lori had moved the two missing children from Arizona to Idaho shortly before they went missing in September.

Kay told the news station that Lori's personality had changed over the last 24 months.

'To think that within the last two years she has completely changed into a monster, I'm making an understatement,' Kay said.

She added: 'Something happened to her. She just turned off and once she got involved with that cult with Daybell, she just turned off the person we knew just went away.'

The religious group is reportedly a radical offshoot of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Source: Daily Mail

Chad Daybell's previous wife, Tammy Daybell, died at their home in Rexburg, Idaho, in October and was buried in Springville, Utah. Chad's new wife, Lori, was also widowed in 2019 when her husband, Charles Vallow, was shot dead by her brother, Alex Cox, in July in Chandler, Arizona

 

[afitzy]

*lightbulb moment* Thanks!

Now that moves to a new area that I had not thought of. If he took Lori off, who did he put on. He wouldn't MOO put a minor as a beneficiary with that type of instrument unless it was a trust. That set up an executor of sort for the trust for JJ. That would take time. MOO. If it were me, it would be a family member who I knew would take care of JJ if I didn't have time to set up a trust. Beneficiary vs. trust, two different things.

I wonder when Lori found out that she wasn't beneficiary, and who it was/where it was to go.

But if JJ gone... ??? What then???

MOO

Yes, but I would think that if the investigation into the death of Charles is ongoing (we have received confirmation of this fact from Charles sister Kay), then I would think its unlikely that any payout would have occurred.

But, perhaps Lori physically took JJ with the idea of perhaps 'holding him ransom' for some payoff or payment from whomever did eventually get the life insurance payment?

Seems like something that Lori might do based on what we have learned about her so far in this case and her fixation on money. Now that she is on the run and Chad Daybell most likely can't continue his lucrative speaking gigs, then its likely that the couple will need cash to continue to live.

MOO

 

[mzmarple]

So the big bouncing ball in this story is likely Charles' life insurance payout. While it's guessed that Charles took Lori out as beneficiary of his $2M policy, it's likely that he named JJ as the new bene. Now, since Charles knew Lori was gunning for him, and being properly paranoid (not enough evidently) he should have made the funds go into an account that is not controlled by Lori. He could have named someone other than Lori as Trustee of his funds. So, it's likely that JJ is now a multi-millionaire, with $2M in the stock market earning 15%. What is Lori to do? This could be the nexus of the "Custody" battle. It's not a custody battle over JJ necessarily, but over the $2 Million.

What's a whacky cult nut job to do? Hide out, hide your wife, hide your kids, they rapin' eva body out here, and hire an attorney, evidently.

MOO

Bingo! I agree that money is a big factor in this case. Charles also has two grown sons, so I’m sure it’s a complicated situation.

Not sure if we can discuss Hector Sosa’s comments on the Eyes Open video with Julie Rowe, but somewhere in his custody battle comments, he dropped mention of “JJ’s money.”

 

[dixiegirl1035]

RSBM

Chad Daybell's previous wife, Tammy Daybell, died at their home in Rexburg, Idaho, in October and was buried in Springville, Utah. Chad's new wife, Lori, was also widowed in 2019 when her husband, Charles Vallow, was shot dead by her brother, Alex Cox, in July in Chandler, Arizona

Jeez, with all these cross jurisdictional issues, including what must have been done to exhume from even another jurisdiction.... has me praying up to Foxfire for assistance and guidance in the case for LE.

Paraphrasing a quote from out past member Foxfire here at WS... the greatest obstacle is cross jurisdictional.

It's used by serial killers (think Golden State killer) and others that know that LE doesn't communicate well, but times are improving.....

 

[mickey2942]

Wow! The money angle with JJ is a whole new perspective on this already tangled octopus web coral reef of a case! It is like a "Hydra Mega Sleuth". With so many branches and variants.

Bottom line though, is that I am more hopeful that JJ is alive. Hopefully safe, and will be found soon, with his half sister. My concern about Tylee is that maybe Chad has decided to take another wife....in addition to Lori. That is not uncommon.

 

[afitzy]

Bingo! I agree that money is a big factor in this case. Charles also has two grown sons, so I’m sure it’s a complicated situation.

Not sure if we can discuss Hector Sosa’s comments on the Eyes Open video with Julie Rowe, but somewhere in his custody battle comments, he dropped mention of “JJ’s money.”

I'm not sure we can discuss Hector Sosa either but I would just like to put out there that when you read his comments it simply appears he is adding zero of substance to the overall conversation other than simply pot stirring IMO.

To see moves from folks like Hector Sosa and Julie Rowe to cynically insert themselves into a missing case where 2 childrens lives are potentially at risk is something that I simply do not have words for!

Hector Sosa was basically taunting people in the comments of his podcast to say he 'couldn't speak' and that the 'truth will come out' and 'to trust the attys and not LE' etc. He appears part of the Lori and Chad narrative to justify their collective non cooperation with LE and their decision to flee to parts unknown. Hector Sosa so far as I can tell is attempting to justify behaviour from Lori and Chad which I believe to be unhelpful at best and unlawful at worst. If Hector Sosa wants to add information to assist in the search for the 2 missing children then IMO by all means assist but to undertake some larger plan to gain 'clicks' and 'views' for his sorry podcasts seems obstructive to the process of what is important here which is finding the 2 missing children.

Julie Rowe conveniently starting up her 'new' podcast amidst the tragedy of this case is also highly suspicious. Julie Rowe by her own admission on her podcast went through a tough time financially following her excommunication from the LDS church. But to stage a 'come back' on the back of a tragic missing case seems to simply be a cynical money grab of a ploy IMO as it has nothing to do with her contributing to find the 2 missing children or locating those that can answer some questions (ie. Lori and Chad).

If Hector and Julie IMO have anything of investigative value to add to this missing persons cases then why not simply go to LE or the FBI directly and not post endless podcasts to turn this sorry case into a money making circus for themselves?

MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Wow! The money angle with JJ is a whole new perspective on this already tangled octopus web coral reef of a case! It is like a "Hydra Mega Sleuth". With so many branches and variants.

Bottom line though, is that I am more hopeful that JJ is alive. Hopefully safe, and will be found soon, with his half sister. My concern about Tylee is that maybe Chad has decided to take another wife....in addition to Lori. That is not uncommon.

Question to folks. We have heard that they were married in HI, yet other posters have shown that Chad was a widower for just 2 weeks when that happened.

I'm confused as another poster has said that HI requires 30 days after divorce/death for them to be remarried.

Can someone enlighten/update my confusion? Was it indeed a legal marriage?

 

[Smoore36]

Just my opinion, but he was apparently under the care of a physician in order to get federally regulated drugs. I don't think anyone can properly judge whether or not he needs medication without being a physician and seeing his confidential records.

JMO

This is spot on! I keep reading comments with regards to JJs medications. As someone with experience working with CPS, it can actually be deemed medical neglect in some cases where caregivers force their child to quit their medications cold turkey. IMO, caregivers and children should consult with their physician when deciding to stop their medications (especially ones that are federally regulated). It can have extreme side effects on children. IMO it is extremely neglectful to take your young child with special needs off of a medication on your own without first speaking with the child’s doctor. Some medications require a weening period that need to be monitored by a professional. I’m not saying this is the case here as I am unaware of the exact medication JJ was taking. Also, we don’t have his medical records and we aren’t aware if Lori spoke with his physician prior. I’m guessing she didn’t as the medication was already filled and it appears she just didn’t pick it up. I just know in my experience, I’ve worked with parents who have been deemed neglectful with regards to being inconsistent with their children’s medications. Normally the medical neglect also coincides with other factors such as educational neglect (not taking your child to school/or not following through with the homeschool requirements), or other forms of abuse/neglect. This is from my home state of Tennessee so I’m not sure about other states.

On a side note: This is my first post in this case and I have read almost all of the posts so far. It’s definitely a tangled web. I appreciate everyone’s time and effort with regards to this case as the priority is focused on bringing those two innocent children home. I always enjoy the websleuth community and I appreciate reading all of the facts, theories, and opinions. Praying for a safe return.

 

[Gardener1850]

Do you have to have an account to search for people/watch videos? (Maybe I should just bite the bullet and get one since I have a 14 year old and a 13 year old! They TELL ME they aren’t on there, but.... ya know.)

No, I don't have an account. I used Google site search to search it. Type the name you want to search for and then type site:www.tiktok.com