Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

[dkryder]

I don't understand why Charles being shot dead didn't make police more suspicious. Our stand your ground laws should have some common sense. I understand standing your ground against a robber. But in this case, Alex wasn't even in his own home, and Charles, while not living in the home at the time, was presumably paying for it. Yet Alex was allowed to get away with "stand your ground" defense, even though per his own story, he had enough time to go to the bedroom, get his gun, go out of the bedroom and shoot Charles dead twice in the chest. Alex had a one inch scratch on the back of his head or something, that he attributed to Charles hitting him with a bat, which again to me doesn't seem like enough of an injury for him to be terrified for his life to the point that he can use lethal force.

Not only that but since he did retreat I'd guess a case could be made that he became the aggressor when he returned.

 

[alter idem]

Well he had visions Tammy would die and sadly she has died. Perhaps they will believe them even more now. I don't know how serious such visions are taken. It seems to me that LDS members do take them seriously. I wonder if CD or Lori had visions that CV would die too? Lori appeared to believe CV was already dead and another person had possession of his body.

I'm LDS and I would say people sharing visions is pretty rare and it probably depends on how well you know the person, whether you believe or not. Sharing a spiritual impression, an answer to prayer, are common, but visions are considered sacred and personal usually. I think Chad's 'vision' that Lori was going to die is actually problematical since the only person to claim it is his author/friend and I take what she says with a big grain of salt and as usual, she told it in such a way as to bolster her own claims to visions. IF Chad really did claim to see his wife die in vision, we'll have to wait and see if anyone else supports this claim. Right now I suspect they don't know what to think of him. And as for LDS taking these visions seriously, personally, I'd be skeptical if I'd heard something like that from a friend or family member. As for Lori, we've not seen anything that claims she saw visions, but we do know that Charles asserted she threatened to kill him and her claims that he was "Nick Schneider' need more explanation before we can figure out what she was even talking about. That part is so bizarre. MOO.

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

On the awesome timeline (I cannot imagine how long that took--kuddos @Gardner1850) I went back to things that have pointed me to the slim possibility the children could be alive: 12-23-19 KW is skeptical the children are alive; 1-5 KW and husband fly to Rexburg and meet with investigators 1-5-20 CR makes YouTube plea; 1-7-20 KW and husband offer 20,000 reward for children's whereabouts. Leads me to believe they too have hope. Maybe LE shared interesting info?
I know there is just as many ominous signs, but worth a shot.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

On the awesome timeline (I cannot imagine how long that took--kuddos @Gardner1850) I went back to things that have pointed me to the slim possibility the children could be alive: 12-23-19 KW is skeptical the children are alive; 1-5 KW and husband fly to Rexburg and meet with investigators 1-5-20 CR makes YouTube plea; 1-7-20 KW and husband offer 20,000 reward for children's whereabouts. Leads me to believe they too have hope. Maybe LE shared interesting info?
I know there is just as many ominous signs, but worth a shot.

Hey— that’s a great conclusion! I want to believe that too!

 

[tresir2012]

No .....He gets no money from second hand book sales.............Where are all these people ?.....moo

Well it's all a load of rubbish AFAICS and appears to encourage adultery and murder under the guise of visions and prophecies. Moo.

 

[alter idem]

I guess not. I actually noticed today for the first time, that Chad's friend JR is doing energy sessions. Expensive.

After hearing what she's been claiming for years, I expected her to be excommunicated, but surprisingly, by her own admission (on one of her podcasts) it was her Energy healing business which got her excommunicated. She makes a lot of money with that business and it gives her lots of validation and adulation as well. MOO. She would not give it up. She took down her podcasts with all her crazy beliefs for awhile, but wouldn't give up the energy healing. Incidentally, she put the podcasts back up after she was exed.

 

[UnknownSleuth]

Do we know how Kay Vallow learned about the dog being returned? Or what was said to JJ?

The information isn't in MSM. It is in social media, but straight from Kay's mouth (er...fingers). They thought the dog had been sold to an unknown person and found out December 31 that it was in fact back with its trainer. I don't know if that means the trainer purchased the dog.

 

[UnknownSleuth]

Duplicate.

 

[BigAl16]

I'm LDS and I would say people sharing visions is pretty rare and it probably depends on how well you know the person, whether you believe or not. Sharing a spiritual impression, an answer to prayer, are common, but visions are considered sacred and personal usually. I think Chad's 'vision' that Lori was going to die is actually problematical since the only person to claim it is his author/friend and I take what she says with a big grain of salt and as usual, she told it in such a way as to bolster her own claims to visions. IF Chad really did claim to see his wife die in vision, we'll have to wait and see if anyone else supports this claim. Right now I suspect they don't know what to think of him. And as for LDS taking these visions seriously, personally, I'd be skeptical if I'd heard something like that from a friend or family member. As for Lori, we've not seen anything that claims she saw visions, but we do know that Charles asserted she threatened to kill him and her claims that he was "Nick Schneider' need more explanation before we can figure out what she was even talking about. That part is so bizarre. MOO.

Friend or family member, maybe. But I suspect that it depends on who the person was and how skeptical the person hearing it is. I think an active believing Mormon is likely to believe it if it is the prophet or a general authority, for example. Wouldn't you agree?

I grew up as a Mormon and had a home teaching companion who my dad described as "almost a general authority." I don't remember specifically, but think he was something at the regional level (above ward and stake, but below the top level, for those who are learning this stuff from this thread). He had stories where he claimed to have had visions. Some members of the ward heard these stories and at least purported to believe them. I agree that the random average Mormon is probably not going to believe claims of another random average Mormon claiming to have had a vision. But once you've convinced yourself that some people (a prophet) actually can have this happen it isn't that big of a stretch for the more easily convinced to come to the conclusion that another seemingly decent, but not as high-ranking person (aka Chad) could as well.

 

[jjenny]

On the awesome timeline (I cannot imagine how long that took--kuddos @Gardner1850) I went back to things that have pointed me to the slim possibility the children could be alive: 12-23-19 KW is skeptical the children are alive; 1-5 KW and husband fly to Rexburg and meet with investigators 1-5-20 CR makes YouTube plea; 1-7-20 KW and husband offer 20,000 reward for children's whereabouts. Leads me to believe they too have hope. Maybe LE shared interesting info?
I know there is just as many ominous signs, but worth a shot.

Or LE just told them the same thing they told us. They don't have any information that the children are dead. Which of course doesn't mean that the children are alive either. Who would have the information what happened to the children? Lori-she isn't talking. Chad-same, not talking. Alex-he for sure isn't talking because he is dead. Various relatives of Lori maybe, but presumably they aren't talking either.

 

[alter idem]

Just having strange personal beliefs is likely tolerated, as long as they don't teach them in church or go trying to convince other people to adopt their eccentric beliefs, but Chad, his Authors etc. have been crossing a line for a while. The AVOW website has been private so it's not viewed to know what's going on, but the vision stuff started to go public with Chad's author's book in May 2014. With the publishing of their books, speaking on radio programs and promoting their visions as something that other people should listen and take heed, that was the problem. LDS believe in stewardship--only the Prophet of the church can receive revelation for the entire church, and some of these end times authors were using their visions to try to tell members of the church what they should be doing to prepare for the end times. Also, I think Chad's books were first put out as fiction, a sort of science fiction/fantasy then he started claiming the NDE's--I'm not certain of this, but while I'd heard of him, I didn't hear that he was also claiming to be a visionary till just a couple of years ago.

Ok so the opinion is this End of Times sect began several years ago and some talk about their visions and beliefs and it has meant people have left their partners, children to believe in this stuff. It's not main stream LDS but an offshoot. Some people support their views, some think they're deluded. The main thing we are concerned with is has there been any crime involved in what has gone on with the missing kids and the three deaths that we know about. We have to wait for the autopsy results to find out part of that and see if the children can be found or at least make contact with relatives or LE. Or if those shielding the kids make contact. If this has been planned as a means to be together then it is evil.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

ebay has 67 lots of Chad Daybell books up for sale/auction at this time. ABE ( American Book Exchange) has 354 Chad Daybell books up for sale ( including 2 signed ones) at this time..........moo

The difference between ebay/Amazon and AVOW is... of course... AVOW peeps seem to still support Chad on a personal level.

 

[Gardener1850]

I’ve not heard anything. I think the only place it was mentioned was Gray’s video, correct?

The dog being taken back to the kennel was from MSM sources, but AFAIK how Kay knew that was not revealed in MSM:

"July/August (approximate): J.J.'s beloved service dog Bailey is returned to the kennel from which the dog was purchased, according to grandmother Kay Vallow Woodcock."

A timeline of the events surrounding the disappearance of J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan

But reading this again with the date that Kay had being vague and around July or August, it just occurred to me-- perhaps Bailey was BOTH taken to the kennel AND later sold? Perhaps the trainer agreed to board the dog at the kennel until Lori could sell him? My Speculation Only.

 

[alter idem]

Friend or family member, maybe. But I suspect that it depends on who the person was and how skeptical the person hearing it is. I think an active believing Mormon is likely to believe it if it is the prophet or a general authority, for example. Wouldn't you agree?

I grew up as a Mormon and had a home teaching companion who my dad described as "almost a general authority." I don't remember specifically, but think he was something at the regional level (above ward and stake, but below the top level, for those who are learning this stuff from this thread). He had stories where he claimed to have had visions. Some members of the ward heard these stories and at least purported to believe them. I agree that the random average Mormon is probably not going to believe claims of another random average Mormon claiming to have had a vision. But once you've convinced yourself that some people (a prophet) actually can have this happen it isn't that big of a stretch for the more easily convinced to come to the conclusion that another seemingly decent, but not as high-ranking person (aka Chad) could as well.

I agree. A vision that comes from a person in authority would most likely be believed. But, Chad isn't a person of authority in the church and neither are his two authors, which is why they both got a lot of pushback, and her book got a warning from church leaders to Seminary (LDS kids often attend a religious class during High School years) teachers not to use her book in the teaching of Seminary classes, and not to recommend it to students. You're right, a few would believe Chad's claim, and as we've seen, they do, some even get fanatical about it. Many on the AVOW website believe him, and his authors' claims. But, they are a tiny group, compared to the rank and file members who don't spend time on message forums, or read books like these authors write. The mainstream members most likely don't have a clue who any of these people are and would be shocked by this. I know about them because I've read a lot of NDE books and happened to see a copy of the one that helped make Chad's business successful for a while, and have followed this saga for the last 5 years. I think that has changed though. I think Chad's publishing business was not doing great because of something his authoress said on her latest video podcast. Those who believe his claims of visions, are a small group, and the group isn't growing, IMO.

 

[indicolite22]

The information isn't in MSM. It is in social media, but straight from Kay's mouth (er...fingers). They thought the dog had been sold to an unknown person and found out December 31 that it was in fact back with its trainer. I don't know if that means the trainer purchased the dog.

Thanks. It was on a MSM timeline (no specific date given, just July/August) that, according to Kay, the dog was back at the kennel where it was purchased from. Lori states in the ad that they paid for the dog's training.

A timeline of the events surrounding the disappearance of J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan

 

[indicolite22]

Or LE just told them the same thing they told us. They don't have any information that the children are dead. Which of course doesn't mean that the children are alive either. Who would have the information what happened to the children? Lori-she isn't talking. Chad-same, not talking. Alex-he for sure isn't talking because he is dead. Various relatives of Lori maybe, but presumably they aren't talking either.

IF the children aren't alive any more, who would have known about it, other than Lori, Chad and perhaps Alex? If Melani had knowledge of it, what were her plans with her own children when she tried to take them from her in-laws? I can't imagine another relative protecting Lori and Chad if they knew they killed the kids.

 

[155etta]

I just want to know how you know that yet cannot provide a source. Are you local or a family friend? Why wouldn't Chad warn her like he did with the KMart incident?

Because Lori Lolo Poo wasn't around back in the K Mart days. MOO.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I’m going to use this moment to share a tip with all of you and answer this question just in case some aren’t aware. It’s helpful to know that everything we post lives on.

I just want to know how you know that yet cannot provide a source. Are you local or a family friend? Why wouldn't Chad warn her like he did with the KMart incident?

You can click on the name of any poster, click on messages and see every post anyone has ever made. So in this case, take a look back to first post and see if this poster introduced themselves- many do. I find this kind of thing imperative to do when someone is posting as a local and you want to understand more.
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #2

 

[Avocado49]

No one would believe "we're moving and can't take the dog" about a registered/trained service animal, because they are allowed by law to go anywhere the owner can go (apartment that doesn't usually allow pets, etc.). It's sad that she then had to jump to "owner died" as an excuse. Which I guess is technically true, since Charles was the owner :-(.

I'm not sure it's in MSM, but the Woodcocks verified directly with the kennel/trainer that the dog ended up there after Lori tried to sell it. Maybe the trainer saw the ad and bought the dog back.

How terrible for JJ.

Also, I had to laugh/roll my eyes at "sweet spirit." Such a passive-aggressive Mormon term.

I assume she meant that the owner was Charles. He is the one who had the dog most of the time (remember he was upset that Lori took the special collar for it), and perhaps Charles even had the dog boarded when he was in TX or whatever, at the training facility.

And, just because Lori listed the dog for sale, doesn’t mean she sold it. Possibly nobody responded and Lori contacted the kennel where it was purchased instead, told them of Charles’ death...

it’s heartbreaking that JJ has been without his beloved dog this whole time...

 

[Avocado49]

After hearing what she's been claiming for years, I expected her to be excommunicated, but surprisingly, by her own admission (on one of her podcasts) it was her Energy healing business which got her excommunicated. She makes a lot of money with that business and it gives her lots of validation and adulation as well. MOO. She would not give it up. She took down her podcasts with all her crazy beliefs for awhile, but wouldn't give up the energy healing. Incidentally, she put the podcasts back up after she was exed.

does she do online healing sessions? I’d like to sign up and see what she says.