Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #24

[kye0001]

Noted. I don't know how much is helpful when I see these things brought up and discussed, I'm probably oversharing. I edited my post down a bit. His comments about his wife feeling like Sariah are pertinent so I thought additional background there might be useful.

I'm sorry, I don't know where the kids might be, though at this point I'm not holding my breath that they are alive. I do hope the FBI are investigating Chris Parrett though.

I found it very interesting thank you. Hopefully LE and the FBI are investigating Parrett and any other key players. JMO

 

[ReadySet]

Wow.
First, thank you for this information and your perspective. Until this case, I thought I knew quite a bit about LDS beliefs. (not LDS myself.)
There is so much in your content to unpack. I haven't read ahead but I'm sure others are unpacking
One concern after reading this is the "secrecy" and "don't tell anyone" and "don't talk about it."
IMO, when you bring secrecy into any set of beliefs, secular or religious, an environment is set up that can easily lead to situations like this case. There is also, IMO, an overtone of hubris and entitlement and elitisim and "we're better than you are." Another element that sets the scenes for cases like this, JMO.
Very concerning.

Hi, I've been lurking here, following the Vallow/Daybell case very closely as I'm a local and know Chris Parrett & his family as acquaintances.

I have a unique perspective to this whole case as I was raised by people who believed similarly to Chad Daybell. We were not part of a splinter group, I was raised within the mainstream structure of the church.





I disagree. Those who believe this way believe they are in line with LDS doctrine. In fact, they believe it's a purer form of LDS doctrine only available to those willing to study and uncover the special mysteries god has prepared for them.

There's a book available on Amazon and there's also a free PDF on the internet. I don't think I'm allowed to link. I don't think I've seen it mentioned here. It's called "Doctrine of Eternal Lives." The author is anonymous as he/she didn't really write anything, just collected scriptures and quotes from prophets that support the idea of "reincarnation." These things are not taught openly from the pulpit or in church classrooms today.

My parents argue that these things are still taught, but you have to listen closely to conference talks to figure out what's really being said.

I was told that the church didn't teach this doctrine anymore because the church is under condemnation as declared by President Benson.

I was taught that it wasn't "reincarnation" like the Hindus believe, but a plan of progression, building upon whatever you achieve in the previous life. So you wouldn't go backwards or be reborn randomly.

Lori's claim that she was Joseph Smith's grandmother and sealed to Moroni is pretty wild, though. My parents never made any claims like that. Although my parents thought we might be our own grandparents if you went back far enough in your family line on this world. I was also taught that we progress through the eternities, including through the three kingdoms. My father in particular claims that all of these things were once taught from the pulpit and were keystones to mormonism, though nowadays bringing up progression through the kingdoms is a great way to start a fight in gospel doctrine class at church.

I don't know how common this kind of belief is because it's also treated with a lot of sacred secretness. I was told specifically not to bring any of this up in any of my church classes, nor to tell anyone (especially anyone who might be struggling) in case the knowledge that this life was not their only chance might stop them from trying to remain temple worthy.



Chris Parrett is a really interesting person. His in-person social skills are really lacking. It feels like he is always laughing at you.

His emails to his LDS AVOW subscribers are very dramatic. All caps and lots of bolded, red text, and highlighted all over the place. When we were members of his forum it felt like they had a new date that Jesus was coming every other month. People stayed in a constant state of fear and anxiety because of this.

I get the sense that he maybe doesn't buy into the end of days stuff but is truly delighted that so many others do.

I think Chris stands to benefit a lot if Chad isn't convicted or is exonerated. Chad has posited himself as basically a prophet, seer, revelator of the last days. Chris has loudly proclaimed him innocent and also claims special insider knowledge (says he was on the phone with Chad and Lori for hours). If Chad walks, there are many, many LDS AVOW members and supporters who will take this as proof of their fringe beliefs. ie Chad is being persecuted by a corrupt government, there are 'Gadianton robbers' (see Book of Mormon beliefs) trying to bring Chad down because he's teaching truth about the latter days, etc.



They don't teach it anymore. They used to, though. It wasn't ever called reincarnation. See the "Doctrine of Eternal Lives" book.

I don't know what I believe anymore, but I still think the doctrine of eternal lives has some beautiful ideas. Eternity is an awful long time. If there is a loving father/god/creator, and he truly wants us to have all that he has, cutting us off after one mortal probation with so many growing up without the gospel and leaving us forever in a lesser kingdom, separated from our families doesn't make a lot of sense. Living forever and ever and ever in a cloudy heaven playing a harp doesn't make a lot of sense either. There's a part of me that will always rather like the idea of being born again and accumulating an eternity of different experiences. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



I'm afraid you won't know if you come across anyone who subscribes to these "outlandish beliefs" because the secrecy is generally very high. Mysteries of the universe, dreams, and visions are often treated with the same sacredness as the temple endowment. There were lots of things my parents wouldn't talk to us about unless we were sitting in the Celestial room.

People with these beliefs will attend church with you, sit on your row, teach your RS and EQ classes, serve in your bishoprics. You'll never know.

Chad was unusual in this regard because he published his stuff and participated in these forums. My parents never would have done either of those things.

If you do unearth someone who believes this sort of thing, good luck warning them or persuading them otherwise. There are a LOT of quotes from scripture and LDS prophets to back these beliefs up, and most that ascribe to this higher-law way of thinking aren't going to listen to someone who hasn't unlocked the mysteries themselves because you are lower on the progression ladder.

If someone has been raised from birth to believe these things, the programming goes very, very deep and is very difficult to separate from mainstream teachings.



You don't get excommunicated until you've published something or have been publicly outspoken in ways that directly oppose the church's leadership. Chad's books were all fictionalized so he was able to fly under the radar in that regard. Folks who attended his signings or speaking events were already on the same page. Weirdly, if you're trying to stop child abuse within the church you will get ex'd quickly and publicly. See Bishop Sam Young.

If Chad is found guilty of breaking the law, he will likely face church discipline. But just belonging to AVOW or believing in the doctrine of eternal lives (reincarnation) won't get you ex'd. In fact you can be a Bishop, Stake Pres, High Councilman, Area Authority, Mission President etc. and have these beliefs. I have personal experience with men in my life who have been all of those things and believe in the doctrine of eternal lives.



No. There's just the one mainstream church. However, no one really considers themselves "fringe" within the LDS church. They just believe themselves to be living a higher law. Even the groups that actually splinter from the mainstream church believe they are leaving to live a more pure, more true version of the restored gospel: Latter Day Saint movement - Wikipedia

Here's the key to understanding people like Daybell: They TRULY believe they have uncovered the mysteries of the universe. They truly believe they have been given a higher light and knowledge than their peers. Money, greed, sex, may come to play a part but in the beginning, those aren't the motivating reasons. The reasons are because they were special and more righteous than most and have divine and foreordained callings to fulfill. Allll mormons believe we have divine purpose and foreordained callings (as in missions given in the prexistence before we were born), some just believe it more hardcore than others.

My parents taught us that the reduction in teaching the eternal progression from the pulpit was to protect the main membership of the church who were not ready for these things. In the minds of my parents, the lord has "pulled back" the restored gospel so we won't be in worse condemnation for not following all of it. This lesser gospel is therefore a blessing to the LDS mainstream masses who don't have the whole truth. (The LDS church in all of its forms is very big on truth claims).

My parents also claim end days visions and dreams, and several men I've worked with have full on prophesied during staff meetings. I also know these types of men don't make up the bulk of the mainstream church.

As far as I know my parents are not a member of LDS AVOW or any other online groups. I have seen a lot of NDE books at their house but none by Chad Daybell or Julie Rowe. My parents did NOT like the popular "Visions of Glory" book, interestingly enough. They said it wasn't doctrinal and read like LDS fan fiction. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For the record, my parents haven't ever killed anyone or broken any laws, nor has anyone died mysteriously and no children have disappeared.

However, we are actively encouraged to seek out and cultivate a CLOSE revelatory relationship with God. There is also precedence for violence in our early church history and in the scriptures. I can see how someone extreme could get to the point where they might excuse awful things, especially if they truly believed Jesus was coming in July 2020 and they had special edicts from him to prepare.

Wow, this is getting way too long. I don't know how helpful this is. But if you have any questions about being raised by people who believed similarly to Chad, let me know.

 

[ReadySet]

Wow.
First, thank you for this information and your perspective. Until this case, I thought I knew quite a bit about LDS beliefs. (not LDS myself.)
There is so much in your content to unpack. I haven't read ahead but I'm sure others are unpacking
One concern after reading this is the "secrecy" and "don't tell anyone" and "don't talk about it."
IMO, when you bring secrecy into any set of beliefs, secular or religious, an environment is set up that can easily lead to situations like this case. There is also, IMO, an overtone of hubris and entitlement and elitisim and "we're better than you are." Another element that sets the scenes for cases like this, JMO.
Very concerning.

Hi, I've been lurking here, following the Vallow/Daybell case very closely as I'm a local and know Chris Parrett & his family as acquaintances.

I have a unique perspective to this whole case as I was raised by people who believed similarly to Chad Daybell. We were not part of a splinter group, I was raised within the mainstream structure of the church.





I disagree. Those who believe this way believe they are in line with LDS doctrine. In fact, they believe it's a purer form of LDS doctrine only available to those willing to study and uncover the special mysteries god has prepared for them.

There's a book available on Amazon and there's also a free PDF on the internet. I don't think I'm allowed to link. I don't think I've seen it mentioned here. It's called "Doctrine of Eternal Lives." The author is anonymous as he/she didn't really write anything, just collected scriptures and quotes from prophets that support the idea of "reincarnation." These things are not taught openly from the pulpit or in church classrooms today.

My parents argue that these things are still taught, but you have to listen closely to conference talks to figure out what's really being said.

I was told that the church didn't teach this doctrine anymore because the church is under condemnation as declared by President Benson.

I was taught that it wasn't "reincarnation" like the Hindus believe, but a plan of progression, building upon whatever you achieve in the previous life. So you wouldn't go backwards or be reborn randomly.

Lori's claim that she was Joseph Smith's grandmother and sealed to Moroni is pretty wild, though. My parents never made any claims like that. Although my parents thought we might be our own grandparents if you went back far enough in your family line on this world. I was also taught that we progress through the eternities, including through the three kingdoms. My father in particular claims that all of these things were once taught from the pulpit and were keystones to mormonism, though nowadays bringing up progression through the kingdoms is a great way to start a fight in gospel doctrine class at church.

I don't know how common this kind of belief is because it's also treated with a lot of sacred secretness. I was told specifically not to bring any of this up in any of my church classes, nor to tell anyone (especially anyone who might be struggling) in case the knowledge that this life was not their only chance might stop them from trying to remain temple worthy.



Chris Parrett is a really interesting person. His in-person social skills are really lacking. It feels like he is always laughing at you.

His emails to his LDS AVOW subscribers are very dramatic. All caps and lots of bolded, red text, and highlighted all over the place. When we were members of his forum it felt like they had a new date that Jesus was coming every other month. People stayed in a constant state of fear and anxiety because of this.

I get the sense that he maybe doesn't buy into the end of days stuff but is truly delighted that so many others do.

I think Chris stands to benefit a lot if Chad isn't convicted or is exonerated. Chad has posited himself as basically a prophet, seer, revelator of the last days. Chris has loudly proclaimed him innocent and also claims special insider knowledge (says he was on the phone with Chad and Lori for hours). If Chad walks, there are many, many LDS AVOW members and supporters who will take this as proof of their fringe beliefs. ie Chad is being persecuted by a corrupt government, there are 'Gadianton robbers' (see Book of Mormon beliefs) trying to bring Chad down because he's teaching truth about the latter days, etc.



They don't teach it anymore. They used to, though. It wasn't ever called reincarnation. See the "Doctrine of Eternal Lives" book.

I don't know what I believe anymore, but I still think the doctrine of eternal lives has some beautiful ideas. Eternity is an awful long time. If there is a loving father/god/creator, and he truly wants us to have all that he has, cutting us off after one mortal probation with so many growing up without the gospel and leaving us forever in a lesser kingdom, separated from our families doesn't make a lot of sense. Living forever and ever and ever in a cloudy heaven playing a harp doesn't make a lot of sense either. There's a part of me that will always rather like the idea of being born again and accumulating an eternity of different experiences. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



I'm afraid you won't know if you come across anyone who subscribes to these "outlandish beliefs" because the secrecy is generally very high. Mysteries of the universe, dreams, and visions are often treated with the same sacredness as the temple endowment. There were lots of things my parents wouldn't talk to us about unless we were sitting in the Celestial room.

People with these beliefs will attend church with you, sit on your row, teach your RS and EQ classes, serve in your bishoprics. You'll never know.

Chad was unusual in this regard because he published his stuff and participated in these forums. My parents never would have done either of those things.

If you do unearth someone who believes this sort of thing, good luck warning them or persuading them otherwise. There are a LOT of quotes from scripture and LDS prophets to back these beliefs up, and most that ascribe to this higher-law way of thinking aren't going to listen to someone who hasn't unlocked the mysteries themselves because you are lower on the progression ladder.

If someone has been raised from birth to believe these things, the programming goes very, very deep and is very difficult to separate from mainstream teachings.



You don't get excommunicated until you've published something or have been publicly outspoken in ways that directly oppose the church's leadership. Chad's books were all fictionalized so he was able to fly under the radar in that regard. Folks who attended his signings or speaking events were already on the same page. Weirdly, if you're trying to stop child abuse within the church you will get ex'd quickly and publicly. See Bishop Sam Young.

If Chad is found guilty of breaking the law, he will likely face church discipline. But just belonging to AVOW or believing in the doctrine of eternal lives (reincarnation) won't get you ex'd. In fact you can be a Bishop, Stake Pres, High Councilman, Area Authority, Mission President etc. and have these beliefs. I have personal experience with men in my life who have been all of those things and believe in the doctrine of eternal lives.



No. There's just the one mainstream church. However, no one really considers themselves "fringe" within the LDS church. They just believe themselves to be living a higher law. Even the groups that actually splinter from the mainstream church believe they are leaving to live a more pure, more true version of the restored gospel: Latter Day Saint movement - Wikipedia

Here's the key to understanding people like Daybell: They TRULY believe they have uncovered the mysteries of the universe. They truly believe they have been given a higher light and knowledge than their peers. Money, greed, sex, may come to play a part but in the beginning, those aren't the motivating reasons. The reasons are because they were special and more righteous than most and have divine and foreordained callings to fulfill. Allll mormons believe we have divine purpose and foreordained callings (as in missions given in the prexistence before we were born), some just believe it more hardcore than others.

My parents taught us that the reduction in teaching the eternal progression from the pulpit was to protect the main membership of the church who were not ready for these things. In the minds of my parents, the lord has "pulled back" the restored gospel so we won't be in worse condemnation for not following all of it. This lesser gospel is therefore a blessing to the LDS mainstream masses who don't have the whole truth. (The LDS church in all of its forms is very big on truth claims).

My parents also claim end days visions and dreams, and several men I've worked with have full on prophesied during staff meetings. I also know these types of men don't make up the bulk of the mainstream church.

As far as I know my parents are not a member of LDS AVOW or any other online groups. I have seen a lot of NDE books at their house but none by Chad Daybell or Julie Rowe. My parents did NOT like the popular "Visions of Glory" book, interestingly enough. They said it wasn't doctrinal and read like LDS fan fiction. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For the record, my parents haven't ever killed anyone or broken any laws, nor has anyone died mysteriously and no children have disappeared.

However, we are actively encouraged to seek out and cultivate a CLOSE revelatory relationship with God. There is also precedence for violence in our early church history and in the scriptures. I can see how someone extreme could get to the point where they might excuse awful things, especially if they truly believed Jesus was coming in July 2020 and they had special edicts from him to prepare.

Wow, this is getting way too long. I don't know how helpful this is. But if you have any questions about being raised by people who believed similarly to Chad, let me know.

 

[investigatefred]

Tammy has been described as a devoted and loving mom. Are/were Tammy’s children aware that Lori attended Tammy’s service?

Who said she was there? I do recall an image floating around at some point with a woman who looked similar, but everyone declared it was not Lori.

 

[indicolite22]

Who said she was there? I do recall an image floating around at some point with a woman who looked similar, but everyone declared it was not Lori.

BBM. Nate Eaton on Gray Hughes' yt channel.

 

[Redvines86]

BBM. Nate Eaton on Gray Hughes' yt channel.

Lori isn't the blond woman in the photo outside in the Springville photo, but she was in the church at the Idaho funeral.

 

[Randocalrissian]

BBM. Nate Eaton on Gray Hughes' yt channel.

Specifically, at the memorial service in Idaho. Not at the funeral and interment in Springville.

 

[investigatefred]

BBM. Nate Eaton on Gray Hughes' yt channel.

Lori isn't the blond woman in the photo outside in the Springville photo, but she was in the church at the Idaho funeral.

Specifically, at the memorial service in Idaho. Not at the funeral and interment in Springville.

Thank you all for the replies! I appreciate it! I hadn't watched any of the GH vids in a while. (MOO they were too time consuming and sometimes confusing to follow)

 

[investigatefred]

On a side note, the Amazon reviews on CD's books are interesting...

 

[Sticksandspades]

Noted. I don't know how much is helpful when I see these things brought up and discussed, I'm probably oversharing. I edited my post down a bit. His comments about his wife feeling like Sariah are pertinent so I thought additional background there might be useful.

I'm sorry, I don't know where the kids might be, though at this point I'm not holding my breath that they are alive. I do hope the FBI are investigating Chris Parrett though.

What part of any doctrine could they possibly twist to justify hiding these kids for so long or worse prematurely ending their life on earth?

Surely, any vision/whisper/voice that broke a generally accepted commandment would be questioned?

 

[Teche]

Living in the intermountain west amongst these folks, I can tell ya, they are generally pretty strong conservative minded and mostly vote GOP. (as you can see on POTUS voting maps) That said, yes, historically, "less government regulations, less involvement needed, keep out of our business, we're doing fine, thank you." But people are concerned about kids as well. This is an isolated case with child victims, and IMHO they welcome LEA joining to either find the kids or complete a legal resolution. They would be offended these people harm children in their midst. At least, I am!

I live in south Louisiana where summer temps reach 103 and humidity reaches 100%. The tar on the roads are steamy and sometimes melt. I feel for the LDS missionaries who are riding bikes

He's got his work cut out for him. Say, is Michael Avenatti available? I hear he is a cracker jack attorney, rather expensive tho.
Oh wait, what's this? He apparently is in lockdown at the MCC in NYC... someone smuggled a gun in there so none of the inmates including him can leave their cells, no showers the past 5 days.
tsk tsk

Can you imagine the stench!

 

[BigAl16]

Possible flights (sorry if already posted)

HNL-idaho falls - layover in Denver -united airlines
depart HNL 9:30 pm on March 4,
arrive at Denver 6:30 am March 5, leave at 8:10 am
Arrive at Idaho falls at 9:58 am -
30 minute drive to Rexburg

Fewest Stops -HNL to SLC delta
Depart HNL 9:45 pm on March 4
Arrive SLC 6:51 am on March 5
Drive from SLC to Rexburg - 3-4 hour drive , so arrival possibly before noon

to help avoid too much congestion and increase safety when word gets out, IMO slc might be preferable. The IF airport doesn’t have too many roads coming in or out.

MoO

The connections into IF are going to be small planes on commuter airlines. Skywest (the Delta commuter) from Salt Lake to Idaho Falls instead of the drive might also be a possibility although it appears the best way to do that connecting from the flight into SLC you have would be a long (4-5 hour) layover and would be leaving SLC when they could be arriving if they had driven. From the standpoint of the logistics in a situation like this I'm not sure whether a small plane is something they'd want to stay away from or if it might possibly be considered a positive. Also, driving from SLC all the way presents logistical issues as well.

Last, assuming they coordinate and discuss with the airlines, SLC is currently going through some major construction. This specifically could impact how things work out if they do use a commuter flight as the way things are currently working (or at least were a month ago and I suspect still are) is that there is a shuttle that takes people to the plane parked on the tarmac well away from the terminal where you board. That could, with coordination, make getting them on the connecting plane assuming the airport/airline works with them rather simple. Have an airport vehicle meet them on the tarmac at the gate (there are stairs from the jetway down to the ground below normally used by airline staff only) where they could be whisked off to the connecting flight and put in the back of the plane. If the timing wasn't right I'm pretty sure they have access to rooms they could have them holed up outside of the normal concourse to keep them mostly out of sight and not attracting attention.

 

[investigatefred]

I hope she is greeted upon arrival by the Idaho welcoming committee

 

[BigAl16]

Noted. I don't know how much is helpful when I see these things brought up and discussed, I'm probably oversharing. I edited my post down a bit. His comments about his wife feeling like Sariah are pertinent so I thought additional background there might be useful.

I'm sorry, I don't know where the kids might be, though at this point I'm not holding my breath that they are alive. I do hope the FBI are investigating Chris Parrett though.

Don't be sorry. You've brought a lot of good information to this. I daresay even those who are well attuned to the Mormon culture and how things are different in Utah and Idaho compared to other places still learned a lot from your posts.

I get people not wanting to go too far down the religion rabbit hole, but if we're trying to understand what Chad and Lori might or might not do, given the apparent importance of religion and quasi-religious beliefs in both their lives, this subject seems like it could be critical. <modsnip>

MOO

 

[Redvines86]

Don't be sorry. You've brought a lot of good information to this. I daresay even those who are well attuned to the Mormon culture and how things are different in Utah and Idaho compared to other places still learned a lot from your posts.

I get people not wanting to go too far down the religion rabbit hole, but if we're trying to understand what Chad and Lori might or might not do, given the apparent importance of religion and quasi-religious beliefs in both their lives, this subject seems like it could be critical. <modsnip>

MOO

I really hope this shines a light on Chris Parrett, and his finances. MOO

 

[BigAl16]

On a side note, the Amazon reviews on CD's books are interesting...

Yeah, anytime a book or person tied to a book is involved in controversy you get a bunch of phony reviews on Amazon. For those who use the reviews to decide whether or not to buy a book, it's ... ummm ... I'll leave it at rude rather than use the word I want to use. However, in this case I doubt anyone is going to stumble onto his books without knowing what is going on. However, if they legitimately wanted to get a feel for actual opinions, they're out of luck.

 

[Dontknow?]

Why would you stay away from the children you love for 5-6 months just to fight for their custody/million bucks while sunning on the beach & staying at resorts to make the week be more fun than living in your $6k/month condo and carrying around that baggie of cash? Good luck on that one.

I sure hope we find out what has happened to JJ & Tylee. This witch needs to go down and her dog Toto too.

My mind is going wild on that FBI command center being there.

 

[Sticksandspades]

Right, and how does that jive with any (fringe/mainstream) belief system - perhaps if we saw evidence of LV & CD working on their 7 tasks then religious obsessions may be a defense - but we didn’t even see that!

Why would you stay away from the children you love for 5-6 months just to fight for their custody/million bucks while sunning on the beach & staying at resorts to make the week be more fun than living in your $6k/month condo and carrying around that baggie of cash? Good luck on that one.

I sure hope we find out what has happened to JJ & Tylee. This witch needs to go down and her dog Toto too.

My mind is going wild on that FBI command center being there.

 

[Redvines86]

Why would you stay away from the children you love for 5-6 months just to fight for their custody/million bucks while sunning on the beach & staying at resorts to make the week be more fun than living in your $6k/month condo and carrying around that baggie of cash? Good luck on that one.

I sure hope we find out what has happened to JJ & Tylee. This witch needs to go down and her dog Toto too.

My mind is going wild on that FBI command center being there.

I think it would actually be pretty great to have her get house arrest and have to stay at Chez Chad's in Rexburg. Just kidding, I'm fine with her getting the best food in the Idaho correctional system. MOO

 

[investigatefred]

My mind is going wild on that FBI command center being there.

SBM... Although the neighbors don't deserve to be caught up in all of this mess, I wish they'd have parked outside the Daybell residence... Is Chad staying there again since his return?