Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #24

[Anonymous91]

AND our addiction is likely to on and on and on for years....... oh dread.

Well, I for one know that I tend to have a compulsive mindset, which I am working on changing. I decide to read a book, the next thing I know I'm reading the book all day long.

Same with this case. I thought I'll just read this for a few minutes, then I got sucked down the rabbit hole and been stuck ever since.

Interesting side note: I have actually been doing some research on Neuroplasticity. Found out some interesting things. Addictions have to do with the pleasure part of your brain. Anything that is "psychological" (addictions included) can be completely changed.

Two simple things that have been proven to help with these changes:

1- Learn a new musical instrument proficiently. Research indicates that this has to be consistent (and daily), and that changes to the brain will be noticeable in several months.

2- The second one is listening to music. Ideally the music that one prefers works the best. In fact, the Metal genre (over 200 sub-genres) and Classical genres are believed to be the most effective.

MOO

 

[ThinkoutLoud]

Well, I for one know that I tend to have a compulsive mindset, which I am working on changing. I decide to read a book, the next thing I know I'm reading the book all day long.

Same with this case. I thought I'll just read this for a few minutes, then I got sucked down the rabbit hole and been stuck ever since.

Interesting side note: I have actually been doing some research on Neuroplasticity. Found out some interesting things. Addictions have to do with the pleasure part of your brain. Anything that is "psychological" (addictions included) can be completely changed.

Two simple things that have been proven to help with these changes:

1- Learn a new musical instrument proficiently. Research indicates that this has to be consistent (and daily), and that changes to the brain will be noticeable in several months.

2- The second one is listening to music. Ideally the music that one prefers works the best. In fact, the Metal genre (over 200 sub-genres) and Classical genres are believed to be the most effective.

MOO

And on that “note,” I think I’m going to go turn on some music.

 

[Trask]

These threads move so fast, so I'll try to reply quickly.



Thank you. As others have mentioned, quick engagements and marriages are fairly common in our culture, especially in the "mormon corridor" of UT, ID, AZ, but their time line is spectacularly fast. I know of two men who remarried within a month of their spouses dying and it shook the community and their families. One family has never healed from their father's quick rebound and it has been years at this point. So, not completely unheard of, but also not particularly smiled upon.

I read the recent article where two women who were deep in LDS AVOW spoke out and one talked about the secret temple meetings between a man and woman who might already be married to others. My upbringing did not include any teachings like this (thank goodness).

I do believe that if someone like Chad felt like he had divine revelation that he was meant to be with Lori (and that they had all these end times missions together) he could rationalize a lot of things. I wouldn't be surprised if their connection began on an emotional and spiritual level and contained no sexual infidelity because of holiness, which also played into the 'race to the altar' scenario.



For quite a while I was positive those kids were either in his basement or someone else high up in AVOW. Now I can't decide if Chris knows the truth and is still protecting Chad or if he just believes whatever story Chad and Lori have cooked up.



Oh, I agree with you. I mean, I know what the church's current stance is and it is as you say. I'm just telling you how I was raised. The people that believe in this believe it emphatically and believe they have plenty of support for it, not only from prophets/scripture, but from their own dreams, visions, and answers to prayer. I do think there's a good chance that it was taught in the past, but so was a lot of other rubbish.

But this: "Regardless of what some believe privately, they should at least be honest and admit that living one single life on earth is a fundamental LDS belief." That is absolutely impossible for these people to admit, regardless of what you think they 'should' do. They believe it with every fiber of their beings, and they believe that it is still being alluded to and taught 'between the lines' in conference talks for those who are paying attention. My parents did not teach this belief openly at all. I can't imagine how upset they'd be with me if they knew I was discussing it online.



My upbringing was rubbish? Agreed. Though there were some good things about it. Lots of love. I think my parents did the best they could with the knowledge and beliefs they had, but I am currently in therapy to make sense of it all. It's very difficult.

I didn't say that Chad (or anyone else) is "correct" for lying and scheming to mislead people under the LDS banner.

My parents didn't lie or scheme. They taught me what they truly believed. I believe Chad started out that way too, but I don't know when he went off the rails (if my suspicions about Tammy's death and his involvement with Lori's children are true).

The church is aware of this and does occassionally speak out against going to extremes or 'looking beyond the mark.' But again, they're not going to excommunicate people unless they are publicly making waves.



Yes, very intrigued. I always find it fascinating to find others who are similar to my parents.



Yes. The 'higher law folk' (I don't know what else to call them) do believe they have found and are living a purer form of LDS doctrine only available to those willing to study.... etc. I thought it might be helpful to hear from someone who was raised like this since I do realize it's really difficult to wrap one's head around.

By "repeating the Joseph Smith story" do you mean how he prayed to know which church is true? I suppose so... it seems like those that actually splinter off and form new religions still ascribe to the original Joseph Smith story. They believe he was a prophet, that he saw God and Jesus and translated the BOM. Usually there is a break somewhere a long the way... the most obvious example is the FLDS who broke off after the church stopped living the law of polygamy, believing the "mother church" to be in apostasy. The FLDS still believe in Joseph Smith, read the BOM, wear their own temple garments, etc.

To simplify: A splinter group will often take foundational things from mormon origins & keep those. While a "fringe group" often won't recognize that they are fringe and believes they are still functioning within the regular mainstream church.

The "special" thing was really big in my family. It was an important way to connect with my parents. I was so special and had so many spiritual gifts that they were allowed to share these sacred things with me. It was how I felt valued and like I had a place in our family.

Welcome and thank you so much for sharing from your personal experience. I feel like we've hit the mother lode with your decision to join WS. As a non-religious person, I really appreciate you breaking the differences down in such an easy to understand way. If you are not already, you would make an excellent teacher.

 

[Anonymous91]

SBM. I think you mean Nate, but yeah I agree. It's ridiculous to say they haven't had a chance to tell their side of the story. If it's a custody dispute, why have they not said that? Or had their lawyer say that in a statement? The simplest answer is because that's a lie and it would land them in even deeper hot water to try to make that claim now. Their lawyer can't knowingly lie for them.

MOO.

Yes I did mean Nate, not Chad. Thanks for pointing that out.

It was very late when I posted that. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[thistle]

Tammy herself wasn't a visionary woman, but she believed what I told her and trusted my decisions

- how absolutely condescending & belittling- I cant imagine what their kids must think.

Let me clarify, this is something that Chad said about Tammy.

 

[Anonymous91]

Just from the title, it could mean a few things, but in this case, at this time, it’s a good bet it’s related to the transfer from Hawaii.



Maybe because it’s a “custody battle” where they’re not trying to KEEP JJ, but instead get a million dollars for transferring custody of him to KW&LW? And KW&LW countered by saying they would just sue for custody based on LV trying to SELL her kid. So LV put the kids “into hiding” (Tylee first, to prepare the hiding place) to make sure KW&LW didn’t get custody through the courts.

And then KW&LW counter by sending evidence of CV’s murder to the police and then LVD counters by having Alex “die naturally” because what police dept is going to pursue a murder case when the murderer is dead too?

The only problem with all of this is it would require the grandparents to be hiding a lot of information, and also it’s completely a figment of my imagination.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some crazy story similar to this, that CD & LVD have come up with.

I am 99% convinced that what they present in court as this supposed "custody battle", will be a complete fabrication, and require one to suspend reality.

CD is so used to his family believing in his "visions", I think he may feel that this will work on everyone else.

At the very least, hearing their version of this story will be very entertaining. I've got my popcorn ready.

MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Chad was once one of those you men. Among the best in the area he served to listen to one of those that was with him.

MOO

Chad was once one of those you men. Among the best in the area he served to listen to one of those that was with him.

MOO[/QUOTE
Do you remember where he served? I thought one place was Spanish speaking, but my head is thinking New Jersey?? I dunno....

That's standard procedure for LE not to tell anyone in either family when there is a homicide investigation beginning. IMO the rift was caused by Chad lying to Tammy's family in the first place and saying Lori doesn't have any minor children. Chad is likely the one who told his kids to cut off their mother's family. He obviously did this to prevent his and Tammy's children from talking to her relatives and comparing notes. If Chad's kids speak to Tammy's family then perhaps they would all figure out that Chad has lied to them about other things as well. There was probably also some anger there that Tammy's family spoke to the police and told the truth. It's not their fault that Chad is a lying liar who lies. I hope Chad's kids see the light soon and decide to cooperate with police.

MOO.

These thoughts continue to eat at my heart. These are all "cousins" and have been so for so many years. How can such destructive lying and cheating get in the way of their communication as loving and beloved family... So hard for me to wrap around....

 

[PJFL]

dbm

 

[nhmemorymaker]

- how absolutely condescending & belittling- I cant imagine what their kids must think.

Let me clarify, this is something that Chad said about Tammy.

I< personally, hope that Tammy has a way to communicate back to us mortal souls that she now sees the truth and is trying to tell her children to know the truth, so they can move on with their own lives experiencing that truth. I just cannot believe, how much I "feel" for Tammy in my little rather insignificant mortal life....

 

[Trask]

That's standard procedure for LE not to tell anyone in either family when there is a homicide investigation beginning. IMO the rift was caused by Chad lying to Tammy's family in the first place and saying Lori doesn't have any minor children. Chad is likely the one who told his kids to cut off their mother's family. He obviously did this to prevent his and Tammy's children from talking to her relatives and comparing notes. If Chad's kids speak to Tammy's family then perhaps they would all figure out that Chad has lied to them about other things as well. There was probably also some anger there that Tammy's family spoke to the police and told the truth. It's not their fault that Chad is a lying liar who lies. I hope Chad's kids see the light soon and decide to cooperate with police.

MOO.

He told his parents the same thing he told Tammy's sister, they didn't lie to police either. Then again, he needs his parents support. I agree that Chad probably told his children to cut contact. Partly so they wouldn't compare notes but mostly because he couldn't erase Tammy fast enough to start his new life. MOO

Per charging documents

40. Through this investigation I interviewed Chad Daybell's parents, Jack and Sheila Daybell, in Springville, Utah. They informed me that Chad and Lori told them in November that Lori Vallow was an "empty-nester."

READ: The documents charging Lori Vallow Daybell | East Idaho News

 

[Anonymous91]

I want someone to pull this whole statement apart from a psychological standpoint. What is he really saying? I read this and it makes me fume. MOO
October 31, 2019

As I See It
By Chad Daybell

Moving into the Second Half of My Life

My dear wife Tammy passed away in her sleep early Saturday, October 19. When I awoke at around 6 a.m., it was clear she had been gone for several hours. It came as a shock. I couldn't believe I hadn't been awakened somehow, but all indications are that her spirit simply slipped away during the night. Her face looked serene, with her eyes closed and a slight smile. It was devastating to discover her that way, but I'm so grateful that her death was peaceful.

Tammy really was the anchor of our family and our publishing business. We have worked side by side from the moment we were married in the Manti Temple in 1990. It is safe to say I never would have become an author without her faith in me and her constant encouragement. Tammy herself wasn't a visionary woman, but she believed what I told her and trusted my decisions. She often said that she felt like Lehi's wife Sariah in the Book of Mormon, where her faith was often tested by the unexpected twists and turns of our lives, but she was grateful when the Lord would fulfill the promises that had been made regarding our family.

She had a brilliant mind, especially when it came to computers. She wore so many hats in our company, from being Chief Financial Officer, to operating our websites, to designing book covers. I'm still sorting out how I'm going to cope with this tremendous loss, but thankfully I have a son whose mind works like Tammy's, and we'll be able to muddle through these tasks, although not as efficiently as she did.

Stepping into the Future
Tammy conveyed to me several messages in .. and I'm in the process of implementing what she has told me to do. She has indicated that my life has two parts that were planned even before I came to earth. She was meant to ....

I can only give my personal insights, based on my own personal experiences. I am in no way a professional.

The first part doesn't even make sense. How does one determine how long someone has been gone for? That leads me to suspect that he knew she had been dead for a while. As far as I know, he hasn't had any training to determine how long someone has been dead for.

The next part about not noticing her passing, her looking serene and having a smile. This I can look at through two different lenses. One he is being genuine hear, and is trying to convince himself that she was at peace when she died, and that it was her time to go (This is why he didn't wake up).

The second way to look at this, is that he wanted to shift any suspicion off of himself. He was shocked, he didn't wake up, she looked peaceful. This is very typical language one hears when reading obituaries.

What we don't know, is which of these reactions he had. Or, if he had a different reaction altogether.

This next part he talks about how Tammy helped him be the author he is. Then the part that concerns me,
"Tammy herself wasn't a visionary woman, but she believed what I told her and trusted my decisions."

I suspect that Chad used this to manipulate Tammy when he wanted to get his way with any major decisions. By the way, when he references "Sariah", this is a story about a woman who begrudgingly followed her husband who was also a "visionary man". I am sure this was Chad's favorite story, for obvious reasons.

The last part goes back to the book business, and how she was an integral part of it, but don't worry the son can take this over from here. Given who the audience is, I don't read too much into this. If this was in her obit, that would be a different story.

The last part, I don't have enough context to draw off of. We don't know if he was referring to Tammy when she was alive, or dead? We don't even know what he was referring to.

I did find it curious that he used the word "ours" which indicates that he at least acknowledges them as a couple, so take that for what it is worth.

Hope that is helpful.

 

[Gardener1850]

He told his parents the same thing he told Tammy's sister, they didn't lie to police either. Then again, he needs his parents support. I agree that Chad probably told his children to cut contact. Partly so they wouldn't compare notes but mostly because he couldn't erase Tammy fast enough to start his new life. MOO

Per charging documents

40. Through this investigation I interviewed Chad Daybell's parents, Jack and Sheila Daybell, in Springville, Utah. They informed me that Chad and Lori told them in November that Lori Vallow was an "empty-nester."

READ: The documents charging Lori Vallow Daybell | East Idaho News

Good point. I wonder how close Chad was to his parents before all this?

 

[Randocalrissian]

Tammy has been described as a devoted and loving mom. Are/were Tammy’s children aware that Lori attended Tammy’s service?

Back when the funeral services occurred, Lori wasn’t on the extended family’s radar. I was at the services in Utah, and as far as I know, she wasn’t there. The rumor is that she was at the service up in Idaho the following day. But even that was based on people who were there recollecting later on after the news of the marriage started spreading.

 

[passthepopcorn]

That's me, you're addressing, I assume. It took me several weeks to work up the courage to post and I hoped it would be helpful. I hadn't seen anyone else with my specific point of view, but I apologize if my post is tiresome. I'll answer any other direct questions, but won't bring it up again.

Edited to add: I don't think a case like this will ever be separate from religion though. It's too tightly connected.

I very much appreciate your candor with your comments, your vulnerability and willingness to share your very unique point of view.

I also want to say that my heart goes out to you as you mentioned that you are in therapy to work through some of the parts of your upbringing. Wishing you all the best as you sort through everything— including things that this news story brings up for you!!

 

[idaidaidaho]

- how absolutely condescending & belittling- I cant imagine what their kids must think.

Let me clarify, this is something that Chad said about Tammy.

I agree! I had the same thoughts when I read it. I wanted to comment on it further because there's a lot of cultural LDS stuff at play here. There's a lot I could say about the history of sexism in the LDS church, but I'll try to keep this brief.

Growing up, Chad would have been taught the following:

• Once ordained to the priesthood (Aaronic at age 12, Melchizedek at age 19 - ages are slightly different now, but that's when Chad would have received them), Chad would have been taught that he now literally held the power of god (as long as he remained worthy or repented of any sin).
• He would have been taught that with this priesthood power he would be authorized to heal the sick and provide counsel (instruction) and comfort to his future wife and children.
  
• He would also hear lots of faith promoting stories about miraculous healings, blessings, protection etc. given by the power of the priesthood and be urged to strive to utilize his priesthood power in similar ways.
  
• He would have been taught that he would preside over his home as the head of household.
  
• He would have been taught that he was preserved in the preexistence with the most valiant of spirits, reserved to come forth in the latter days. (Girls are taught this also).
• He would have heard countless stories about people being led by the spirit in miraculous ways: a small voice tells them to check the rear of the car where they discover a toddler lying on the cement. Praise be! God saved the little baby from getting run over because the person who heard the prompting was clean and worthy, reading their scriptures and praying daily in order to be receptive to the whispering of the Holy Ghost. (Girls are taught this also).

In addition to the youth-specific teachings, throughout his entire life in the church he would have heard faith promoting stories that involve:

• Specific revelation received after fasting, prayer, temple attendance, etc. Said revelation can be a feeling, a voice in your head, an idea, counsel from someone else that 'rings true,' an opportunity that arises that feels serendpitious.
  
• Miraculous healings where someone appears to be cured after a priesthood blessing.
  
• More rare, but still common: Stories where someone has had a special dream, vision, or even a near death experience. This might be a dream of end times preparation or a dream where a dead loved one expresses worry, concern, shares a warning, provides comfort, urges you to make a decision, etc. I believe the church officially asks members to be very careful in sharing these experiences as to not cast pearls before swine, particularly near death experiences, though I'm struggling to find a reference.

Without Tammy's suspicious death, these sentiments expressed by a husband would not be seen as strange or callous at all in the community.

Nor would it be unusual for Tammy, even as a strong, valiant, woman with her own mind/thoughts/spirit/backbone to honor and revere her husband as a visionary man. I do find the Sariah comment really telling. Sariah is a pretty unhappy woman in the Book of Mormon, IMO.

DANG IT, I've made this overlong again. There's a pretty important cycle to all of this where the teachings are repeated and reinforced via testimony, but it's getting too long. To sum up my main points:

1. The culture of the church provides ample room for someone to grow up feeling like they are a) super special, b) foreordained to greatness, c) chosen by god to lead their family, and d) an open vessel for receiving whisperings/promptings/direction/instruction from the spirit.

2. The culture of the church also provides a pretty enthusiastic welcome-wagon for anyone sharing promptings and direction received by god. It wouldn't be at ALL unusual for someone to stand up in fast and testimony meeting and say they were directed by god to move into their new house, or to take their new job, or to go back to school... or even to apply to a certain school by name. It would also be completely normal for a spouse to stand up and bear testimony of the struggle he or she had in following their spouse to a new state, but express faith that it was the right thing to do.

I hope I've stated this all respectfully. These things aren't necessarily bad when the partners in a relationship are on the same page and there is even give and take and compromise. Things can get very ugly if one half of the marriage is using revelation to manipulate others into doing what he wishes and the 'less visionary' half just has to fall in line. I fear this is what occurred when Chad got the "prompting" to move to Idaho, but I honestly don't know.

I do think these cultural climates in the church CAN allow some crazy things to happen, and happen at such a slow/normalized rate that no one sees it until all of a sudden kids are missing. The warning signs that are so obvious to outsiders are less obvious to insiders because of those cultural norms.

 

[tresir2012]

These threads move so fast, so I'll try to reply quickly.


I do believe that if someone like Chad felt like he had divine revelation that he was meant to be with Lori (and that they had all these end times missions together) he could rationalize a lot of things. I wouldn't be surprised if their connection began on an emotional and spiritual level and contained no sexual infidelity because of holiness, which also played into the 'race to the altar' scenario.



For quite a while I was positive those kids were either in his basement or someone else high up in AVOW.



My upbringing was rubbish? Agreed. Though there were some good things about it. Lots of love. I think my parents did the best they could with the knowledge and beliefs they had, but I am currently in therapy to make sense of it all. It's very difficult.

I didn't say that Chad (or anyone else) is "correct" for lying and scheming to mislead people under the LDS banner.

RSBM

I didn't say your upbringing was rubbish. But what Chad is spouting is rubbish and has led to the current situation. We have two kids missing, in danger and possibly dead, with 3 spouses dead and 1 in hiding. If anyone in AVOW knows where these kids are they should immediately let LE know, secretly if necessary. I too wish they were in someone's basement alive.

 

[passthepopcorn]

- how absolutely condescending & belittling- I cant imagine what their kids must think.

Let me clarify, this is something that Chad said about Tammy.

Yup. He’s a real gem (Sarcasm intended)

 

[BigAl16]

These thoughts continue to eat at my heart. These are all "cousins" and have been so for so many years. How can such destructive lying and cheating get in the way of their communication as loving and beloved family... So hard for me to wrap around....

It looked like you were trying to ask where he served and mentioned NJ, Spanish speaking mission. That agrees with what I remember also.

 

[josephinemarch]

Possible flights (sorry if already posted)

HNL-idaho falls - layover in Denver -united airlines
depart HNL 9:30 pm on March 4,
arrive at Denver 6:30 am March 5, leave at 8:10 am
Arrive at Idaho falls at 9:58 am -
30 minute drive to Rexburg

Fewest Stops -HNL to SLC delta
Depart HNL 9:45 pm on March 4
Arrive SLC 6:51 am on March 5
Drive from SLC to Rexburg - 3-4 hour drive , so arrival possibly before noon

to help avoid too much congestion and increase safety when word gets out, IMO slc might be preferable. The IF airport doesn’t have too many roads coming in or out.

MoO

 

[idaidaidaho]

I'd like to hear you talk more about Tylee and JJ and much less about Chad and religion. Do you know where the kids might be?

Noted. I don't know how much is helpful when I see these things brought up and discussed, I'm probably oversharing. I edited my post down a bit. His comments about his wife feeling like Sariah are pertinent so I thought additional background there might be useful.

I'm sorry, I don't know where the kids might be, though at this point I'm not holding my breath that they are alive. I do hope the FBI are investigating Chris Parrett though.