Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #27

[adot0902]

Serious question, if you were being charged with what LVD is being charged with why do you need a family law lawyer and a real estate/business lawyer?? I seriously think there is a possibility the kids are alive and the grand scheme is to sue every single law enforcement agency that they have interacted with. I don't know why I just can't stop thinking the final LVD moment will be the kids showing up with her to court to file massive law suits, granted I don't think they will go anywhere but I want this to be the case so bad.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I asked a question a couple of days ago that I don't believe was answered. If lori bonds out and commits suicide what happen to the bond? Anybody know, thank you!

I had the same thought and read some confusing things but this is my take away. The bond is secured by some person. In this case it could be Chad, it could be Lori, it could be someone else. If Chad secures the bond to free Lori and Lori dies by any means before her next court date, Chad gets his money back. If Chad secures the bond and both Chad and Lori die before the next court date the bond becomes part of Chad's estate and his heirs can get that money back. If Chad secures the bond in Lori's name and she dies her estate would get the money.

If the bond is secured through a bail bondsman they would keep 10% of the bond no matter what.

MOO

 

[tresir2012]

Deleted dupe

 

[tresir2012]

Are they declining on moral grounds or because she can't raise enough collateral?

It said "declining to work with her". So maybe too high a bond for them, she cannot raise collateral, she is too high a risk as she has absconded and been in contempt of court twice before, or morally they don't wish to work with her. Or all four. Chad and his mates clearly have not come thru for her either.

Her attorneys have been asked for comment, but nothing received yet.

 

[fuzzybutter]

Circumstantial evidence holds more weight in court than most people think. Hypothetically, if Tammy died by poison and the police were to arrest Chad for her murder, here is some of the evidence we already know about:

1. Chad was sleeping in the room where Tammy died and claims he didn't notice her fall out of bed and die on the floor until hours after her death. The Medical Examiner or an expert in the type of poison she died from can be put on the stand to detail what her death would have been like and the improbability of Chad sleeping through it or witnessing part of it and not calling 911.

2. Chad declined an autopsy. While the sheriff maintains the coroner had the final say, the specific conversation between Chad and the coroner has been kept under wraps. He may have said something that seemed convincing at the time that turns out to be very damning when her cause of death is discovered.

3. Chad told others that he had a vision of Tammy dying before it happened. While our main source of this (Julie R) is iffy for credibility, if she is going to be a witness or if he told other people the same thing, it could be used as evidence of premeditation.

4. Chad may have been having an affair with Lori before Tammy died. At the very least we know there was some shenanigans going on. Lori goes from reading his books to going to conferences where he is speaking, then she is doing podcasts with him. Then she is sending video of herself dancing. And then there's the whole fake email address in Charles' name set up to send Chad a forged letter from Charles, the purpose of which seems to be to give Chad an excuse to get away and come see Lori in Arizona... Something tells me that those emails are the tip of the iceberg in the digital trail between Lori and Chad prior to Tammy's death (and prior to Charles' death too).

5. Chad increased Tammy's life insurance before her death.

6. Tammy and Chad's entire financial picture, including their past bankruptcy can be presented as evidence. If it's true what Julie R said about Chad telling her he and Tammy were struggling financially, then that can be pointed out as a financial motive.

7. Chad moved out of the home he shared with Tammy the day after her memorial service. He supposedly claimed he was going to Hawaii to grieve and for business (editing a book). We don't know when he really left for HI. Hypothetically, if he lied about when he was going to Hawaii and why, and instead went to live with Lori then it's circumstantial evidence of a cover-up.

8. Chad immediately began removing all reminders of Tammy from his life after her death. He told his in-laws he would probably never visit. He told his kids he wanted to sell the house and close down the book publishing business he and Tammy had built since 2004. But even more telling is that he started to talk about this "new direction" before Tammy died, allegedly telling a stranger on an airplane on Sept 19th that he wasn't going to be writing those end-times books anymore.

9. Chad seemingly hid his marriage to Lori at first. When the police came to ask about JJ, he made it seem like he barely knew Lori and didn't know her phone number, while he was actually already married to her. He apparently told his kids that he met Lori in Hawaii while working on book or editing a book for someone and they spontaneously decided to marry while there. He told them about marrying Lori sometime after the wedding happened.

10. The letter Chad wrote to GRI/AVOW after Tammy's death. We can't see this entire letter but the rest could be revealing. What also may be revealing-- when did Chad first write it? His computer may have the answer.

Here's some ideas for evidence LE may have that we know nothing about:

1. How the poison was administered to Tammy. If it was slipped into something she ate or drank, there are a limited number of people who had access to her to do that.

2. Evidence showing knowledge of the poison used. There could be internet searches. It could have been something in one of Chad's books somewhere. Or there may be someone who taught a wilderness survival class and showed Chad which plants were poisonous and that person can testify that he had knowledge of the poison.

3. Evidence showing access to the poison or when it was obtained. Was it a household chemical that was found in the Daybell house? A plant known to grow in their yard? A prescription drug that he had access to?

4. The 911 call when Tammy died. This is being withheld as evidence in the case. I've wondered before-- did Chad possibly decline to do CPR? Did he show knowledge that Tammy had been dead for a couple hours at that point? He is not a doctor, so how would he know her time of death for certain unless he witnessed it happen?

5. Texts, emails and phone calls may reveal a lot more than we expect. Even deleted messages can be recovered sometimes.

6. The masked man with a gun encounter 10 days before her death. We know nothing indicating Chad had any part in that, but that doesn't mean LE has no evidence connecting him to it. Someone had to tell the shooter approximately when Tammy would be arriving home, where to stand, which direction to run off, the best place to park a getaway car or to get picked up by another accomplice, etc.

7. Where was Chad and what was he doing while he sent Tammy to visit her parents? The answer to this could be revealing.

8. Why did Chad fly to Mesa, AZ on Sept 19th, the same day Lori got a babysitter for JJ, told the babysitter she was going to the airport and then returned with a podcaster woman?

9. The storage CCTV. If that's Chad on video on certain days it could reveal some things.

10. LE Surveillance of Lori may be revealing of Chad's movements. Gilbert PD started surveiling Lori Nov 1st in the investigation into BB's attempted murder.

MOO.

Thank you for this fantastic analysis!!!

Point 8 highlights all the weird stuff Chad did after Tammy’s death. Why did he go out of his way to tell her grieving parents that he would probably not see them again. It is a detail, but it just strikes me as really odd considering that he has known them 30 years and they are great grandparents to his grandchildren. Why he would go out of his way to say something that is either tone deaf or flat out cruel. This one detail is not going to solve this huge mess, but every time I run across it, it strikes me as bizarre.

 

[Teche]

Awesome!!

Lori Daybell remains in jail and may have problems posting $1 million bail | East Idaho News

From Nate on FB: Two local bond companies say they were contacted by Daybell’s representatives but the businesses are declining to work with her.

 

[Teche]

Have makeup and leggings will travel.

Nate Eaton on Twitter



Nate Eaton

@NateNewsNow

She remains in a segregated portion of the jail but not in isolation. Deputies are ready should she find a bondsman to bail her out.

 

[Underneath the Sky]

Thank you for this fantastic analysis!!!

Point 8 highlights all the weird stuff Chad did after Tammy’s death. Why did he go out of his way to tell her grieving parents that he would probably not see them again. It is a detail, but it just strikes me as really odd considering that he has known them 30 years and they are great grandparents to his grandchildren. Why he would go out of his way to say something that is either tone deaf or flat out cruel. This one detail is not going to solve this huge mess, but every time I run across it, it strikes me as bizarre.

Possible explanations:

1. Busy getting ready for end of the world, doesn't think they're part of the 144,000.
2. Knows he's heading to jail before this is all over with.
3. Socially awkward under stress, the kind of person who shakes a reporter's hand to try to get out of an ambush interview; the truth just unnecessarily came out of his mouth. (If only he would do that more often.)

MOO...

 

[squareandrabbet]

I have some thoughts to share from the psychological perspective; I am by no means professional, I am only for a long time interested in psychology and read a lot of research on the topic, so this is JMO MOO:
Re Chad:
- as it was mentioned before by another author, it is very possible that Chad suffered an indiagnosted brain injury. There is a lot of (sometimes controversial) research on the topic, how brain injuries might affect person's behaviour, understanding of the world, cause hallucinations, anti social behavior, sociopathy etc. As it seems he has never been tested for this (see citation from his book posted before, that he did not tell anyone at the time), this very well might be the case.
Now taking into account the social surroundings (LDS church), which not only dissapproves of, but even approves of personal revelations, as it was many times confirmed by LDS followers in this thread (my knowledge of LDS is only from this forum though); even motivation to seek such revelations, talk to HS etc; moreover having revelations brings a person "to the top" of the church community (because "only the best" receive this blessing) - there is a big possibility for a person to become disillusioned and motivated to believe in his own fantasies, especially if supported by wife (Tammy, who believed him) and others (people on forums, book readers, etc), and not condemned (because it all fits into LDS doctrine).

Re Lori:
- given info about the childhood and parents that are anti-government (? don't know how much supported this claim is), it seems Lori's (and siblings') childhood was spent in kind of paranoic and sociopathic family with religious background. Lori is called "mystery" by high school friend, she was quiet and attending LDS seminary, which supports this claim. Her first marriage seems like a protest against this state of things, as well as numerous divorces that are not supported by any Christian religion as far as I know, so I believe LDS church also wouldn't support, so kind of making her a "bad sheep" according to her parents views. Given the good looks, personal attraction (source of NPD?), very feminine behavior - there is most probably a psychological conflict between not being a "good girl" according to family standards, striving (with time) to fix this, and personal interests to live a nice life with wealthy husband that adores her beauty and does what she wants, because she is very special.
AxC, AdC and other siblings were also raised in the same surroundings, and this should be taken into account. The agressive and sociopathic attitute towards external world might very well be caused by the same childhood. That's why AxC was so much eager to "defend" Lori, as well as niece and sister that are clearly on the side of the "family" no matter what; and parents we've heard no word from.
- now what comes to my attention is that she was called a perfect mom by CR, babysitter, as well as by many other witnesses; she was also adored by CV for a long time (according to many witnesses as well), so most probably that was the period of her striving to be righteous and good in all respects, and there was a trigger that brought her paranoia and sociopathic past to the surface, something like a seed planted into a prepared (by childhood and personal conflicts) soil. In this case most probably it would be meeting with Chad and other preppers, whose beliefs supported her hidden paranoia, anti-government and religious beliefs, as well as gave her a long needed "sense of life", where she is more important than others, she is the chosen one (NPD again).

Now, I remember reading in support documents on this thread that Doomsday beliefs that Chad and Lori share, seem to show that Doomsday will start with government actions which will lead to the war. So it seems that anti-government beliefs are tightly knit with the religious beliefs, and this all situation might be treated by most of Lori's "prepared" family and their doomsday cult as just another proof of their visions. That could also explain kids disappearance ("taking them into safe haven"), cutting kids from communication long before they were gone (Tylee stopped using social media etc, not saying where they are going even to Colby etc), not wanting to present them to the authorities, as well as strong support by immediate family (AxC, MBP, ZP etc). They do believe this is all a big government plot against them, and they are doing the right thing. Because the end of government is near.

It's interesting to look at the quote from CV and LV divorce court documents about Nick Shneider. I've googled who that could be. It came to my attention that there was one Nicholas Shneider that "on the basis of Kennedy speeches put him forward as model American and Christian in a way that all too obviously equates them". He wrote numerous books on religious views of president. Could that be that CV was named Nick Shneider as a government supporter who named government as a representative of Christian rule, which would make him an enemy of anti-government and Doomsday belief groups?

Add here their genuine belief that they are gods, and God leads them in all what's happening, and everything will be the way God promised ("to them")...

Just my thoughts

Good thoughts!!

I wanted to add one piece of information to the puzzle, as somewhere along the line, we were told by Charles Vallow's preceding ex-wife of some uniquely fascinating aspects (bolded by me below):

Charles Vallow's ex-wife had concerns about Lori Daybell over 10 years ago and thinks his shooting death was '100% planned' | East Idaho News

A year after Charles and Lori got married, Cheryl became concerned about Lori’s mental state.

“She just seemed off. There were a lot of strange goings-on at their home to the point that a judge ordered cameras to be put in their home to protect the children,” Cheryl recalls.

Nothing suspicious or criminal was ever found on the video footage, Cheryl said, but she said something wasn’t right with Lori. During child custody hearings, Cheryl says Lori seemed to enjoy being in court and “all the drama” surrounding it.

“Lori was also in a custody battle with Joseph Ryan, and it was so intertwined that the judge combined our cases altogether in the courtroom,” Cheryl recalls. “It was quite odd, but she loved it. That’s when I learned she doesn’t do what she’s told to do if she doesn’t want to. I saw that a lot in court.”

***

All of which is fascinating, not least of which for the reason because nobody on these boards has ever heard of a combined custody hearing before; and both this melding of the cases plus the mandatory in-home cameras, I assume, are checkable in the court record.

We also know from extensive information and reports, that Lori has gotten out of at least two of her marriages/custody situations by (a) fighting bitterly tooth and nail; (b) claiming that it was in fact the now-deceased husbands who were violent; when simultaneously (c), sending AxC out to beat these two husbands up, and quite possibly making AxC responsible for not just one, but both of their deaths, in the bargain.

Which is psychologically interesting because not only is Lori positioning herself as the quintessential victim to the rest of the world, this poor battered little slip of a girl; but that she is in fact doing so when the reality is, she is actually a master manipulator who has gotten everything she ever wanted; except for the bio dad of Colby, the "love of her life who didn't want them" (paraphrase of Lori's own statements).

As a second layer, 20+ years later, Lori is in fact both rejecting her child whose father didn't want either of them; as well as the (first ever!) grandchild, whom he's now rolled out for Lori's approval.

Plus, she thinks she's a divine figure who can't in fact die; so there's that.

 

[raysgirl1126]

Possible explanations:

1. Busy getting ready for end of the world, doesn't think they're part of the 144,000.
2. Knows he's heading to jail before this is all over with.
3. Socially awkward under stress, the kind of person who shakes a reporter's hand to try to get out of an ambush interview; the truth just unnecessarily came out of his mouth. (If only he would do that more often.)

MOO...

@Underneath the Sky
Are you the poster who commented about this before? #3 the awkward hand shaking thing? I have watched it over and over again since that one comment threads ago trying to understand WTH he was doing? MOO

 

[squareandrabbet]

Thank you for this fantastic analysis!!!

Point 8 highlights all the weird stuff Chad did after Tammy’s death. Why did he go out of his way to tell her grieving parents that he would probably not see them again. It is a detail, but it just strikes me as really odd considering that he has known them 30 years and they are great grandparents to his grandchildren. Why he would go out of his way to say something that is either tone deaf or flat out cruel. This one detail is not going to solve this huge mess, but every time I run across it, it strikes me as bizarre.

Yeah... not just you.

Because it basically sounds, IMO, like Chad turned to his inlaws of 25+ years, and said "So, don't take this the wrong way, but this is probably the last time you'll be seeing me."

!!! "Um, okay, yeah, Lurch. Sure thing. Good to know that since our daughter has died, you consider your obligation to us to be over."

???

@Underneath the Sky
Are you the poster who commented about this before? #3 the awkward hand shaking thing? I have watched it over and over again since that one comment threads ago trying to understand WTH he was doing? MOO

Maybe Chad is having flashbacks to his mission days traveling D2D.

Maybe he's been given the same conventional wisdom I was about Jehovah's Witnesses in the past, that African-American people are more prized as converts because their sense of extended family staying together is stronger; and thus they'll bring more converts (and pockets) into either religion.

Or, maybe Chad is secretly a bit racist and overcompensating for it.

Who knows, really?

 

[Underneath the Sky]

@Underneath the Sky
Are you the poster who commented about this before? #3 the awkward hand shaking thing? I have watched it over and over again since that one comment threads ago trying to understand...

I wasn't part of the original discussion, but I found it strikingly odd. It's almost like he's playing off a script from back when he used to be a nice guy. It makes me wonder if he would crack if a really good interrogator got in his face. MOO

 

[squareandrabbet]

I wasn't part of the original discussion, but I found it strikingly odd. It's almost like he's playing off a script from back when he used to be a nice guy. It makes me wonder if he would crack if a really good interrogator got in his face. MOO

I also think it's important to remember, in Chad's mind he probably still IS a really nice guy.

He's saving us from ourselves. Everyone else is the wrongheaded ones.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Yes that’s one thing that drives me crazy. In Canada we don’t hold elections for jobs like the medical coroner or even the local DA. We hire them based on education period!! Doesn’t make sense to me that a person with a EMT certificate could make these decisions. MOO

It is about need and resources. The CDC tracks "premature death rate" meaning anyone under the age of 75 which is a good estimate for how busy a coroner might be. I'm not saying they don't look at anyone over 75, just making estimates here. For Fremont County that rate is about 0.35%. With a population of about 13,000 that means the coroner on average has a case every 8 days.

The 2017 data I find says the Fremont coroner makes an annual salary of $15,096.
https://www.co.fremont.id.us/departments/commission/Proposed Budget 2017.pdf

It is a part time job that involves being on call 24/7 no matter the weather and no matter how gruesome the scene. I'm surprised they get people who want that job. MOO

ETA budget PDF link

 

[SeattleStew]

'Cult mom' Lori Vallow cannot find bondsman to secure $1M bail but will likely walk free while her kids remain missing

Lori is likely to walk free however despite all this by the end of the day as multiple people are working to pull together assets for her two sources told The Sun.

The Sun has learned that Lori has put together the $100,000 she will need to put down herself, but is having trouble proving that she has $1 million in assets.

 

[Anonymom]

I have been lurking from the beginning of this case.

First post! A few days ago, someone asked asked about using cell phone data to track the location of LV, AxC, Tylee and JJ in Yellowstone.

Last summer, a young woman’s body was found buried 80 miles away from where she was killed after police used cell phone records to track her killer’s location. Of note, Logan Canyon, Utah, is a place where my cellphone often loses coverage, leading me to hope that tracking this kind of location data can be more successful in Yellowstone than we might otherwise believe.

Utah authorities used the suspect's cellphone records to find the body of a missing college student in a remote canyon 80 miles north of Salt Lake City

 

[Drc40]

MOO. Same thing that would happen if she didn't commit suicide. The bail bonds people would retain their 10% ($100,000) and be done. The million dollar bond would be gone, because she's dead, when you die you can't have a bond, it's a guarantee you will show, no more guarantee than death.

Sounds like good motivation for the bondsman to make sure she has an “accident”.

The Sun has learned that Lori has put together the $100,000 she will need to put down herself, but is having trouble proving that she has $1 million in assets.

The Sun as in that British tabloid? They’re basically the National Enquirers of the UK.

 

[funeralpotatoes]

The Sun has learned that Lori has put together the $100,000 she will need to put down herself, but is having trouble proving that she has $1 million in assets.

All together now 3, 2, 1....
“THAT’S GREAT”

 

[Drc40]

I have been lurking from the beginning of this case.

First post! A few days ago, someone asked asked about using cell phone data to track the location of LV, AxC, Tylee and JJ in Yellowstone.

...to hope that tracking this kind of location data can be more successful in Yellowstone...

Phones might lose the ability to make calls where towers are limited but most phones have locational services that are tracked with GPS Satellite. Also, many young people use apps that have locational services activated and associated user’s photos, etc as geolocation data. I would imagine authorities have already been down this road for a long time. Let’s hope Tylee used one of these apps!

Welcome to WS.

 

[yawningreyhound]

Reading a couple of the above referenced articles, I'm struck this time by the photo from Yellowstone of Tylee and JJ. Here the guy standing behind Tylee had recently shot her father to death. Who makes a kid travel with someone who allegedly (coulda been LV who pulled that trigger, too, I guess) killed their father. Those poor poor children.

Then again.....edited to add: She's Joe's child.....Was she was adopted by Charles Vallow?

The intricacies are getting to me again.