Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #30

[tresir2012]

Right. Curiously, I'm having a hard time finding any business registrations for R.I.T.E Planning Group. All the businesses come up under Charles's variant names (Leland Charles Vallow, Charles Leland Vallow, Leland Anthony "Charles" Vallow) are defunct.

The divorce papers mentioned "contract representatives" in CA that were owed $22K and were evidently stiffed out of it. It seems odd than none of them have gone after Lori for their money. I wonder what other assets Lori and Charles held jointly that could have been part of a financial motive, what the name of the jointly owned company was, and where it was registered. And does she have access to that money now.

She did have access to that business account because she took money from it ( $35k) leaving nothing to pay employees (the representatives you mention perhaps?) but I don't know what the account was called. I do not think there was any money left but perhaps there are still commission receipts coming in on the policies he sold. I guess his executor (KVW?) will be dealing with that IMO.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

That's interesting, possibly KW, Charles's executor, paid those"contract representatives" in CA that were owed $22K and were evidently stiffed out of it" and that's why they didn't go after Lori IMO

Good point, and plausible given what we know of KW's character. I'm a "follow the money" kind of guy, and it looks like Charles didn't have much. I can't find any record of them buying a house, there's a string of failed or defunct businesses whose addresses are apartments, he did a stint as an annuities salesman for a while, and the net cash position of their company (whose official name I still haven't found) at Feb 2019 what $12K. In fact his biggest asset appears (based on what I've found so far) to be that $1 M life insurance policy.

 

[tresir2012]

No, I have no link to prove exactly when Kay might have provided the text to LE. But, I thought it would have been prudent for Chandler PD to review LV's communications (email, text, etc) when looking for the children (back in 2019), and/or doing further investigation into Charles' death. Maybe they overlooked it?

I do get the impression that KVW has been doing a lot of the investigating herself. I don't even know if Chandler LE have looked at Alex and Lori's phone records. They certainly should have.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

That particular spring isnt one that is sulfuric acid? Just boiling water? If she were pushed into it, wouldnt that leave obvious evidence?

No way would they have used that spring. The trail is full of tourists, very near the lodge, and there are plenty of out-of-the way springs one could use IMO. This is right on the boardwalk of one of the most populated areas. It's creepy that he took a picture of her next to a hot bubbling spring, I'm not sure when / who thought up that she was put in one, it's possible for sure but seems really dangerous to me. There is a ton of calcium deposits across the river, and I'm not sure which are more acidic than others, I have been to many hot springs in the West and none known as acidic to the point it would dissolve bone, but here? Quite possible but I think a small percentage. Been to Springs that smelled of sulphur... don't recall the smell being that bad here. They are also cavernous below which bones can fall into. I read about the hot springer whose body disappeared but I find it hard to think all YNP springs would do that, and don't know how one would find out. There are also trout in the river below when the water cools, so it can't be that acidic. Hot though!

 

[VeryVeritas]

Posts can only be edited by the poster within the first hour. After that only admin can edit posts.

Tylee's bike, ice skates, winter boots and a blanket were the items we got to see. There could have been more.

I've been thinking more on my original post and snipped it down to highlight the part that keeps playing on my mind. The implications, as I see it, are that Tylee's - I'll call it murder because that is my opinion - was premeditated from at least the first time Lori told anyone that Tylee was going away to college. I also believe getting rid of JJ's dog was a sign of premeditation of JJ's murder - again murder is my opinion - and this can be dated back to at least when Lori first contacted anyone about giving up Bailey. The implications of it are beyond anything I have ever seen before.

I am very interested in the fact that so far anyway, Colby has never mentioned anything about knowing Tylee was going to college, and his texts to Tylee do not reflect any knowledge of it either. This suggests to me that Lori was very mindful about who she told the lie to.

Murder of children with long premeditation. I was going to consider motive, but I'll save that for now.

--
Here are some relevant dates from the timeline, showing what was told and to who, and when: -

11 Jul 2019 – After the police interview Alex, Lori & Tylee, all 3 are transported together in a police van back to the house [...] Lori was “happy-go-lucky”, smiling and talking about how Tylee was going to go to BYU-Hawaii;

22 Jul 2019 – Lori sends an email to Dog Training Elite asking about finding a new family for JJ’s service dog Bailey; Lori say it’s due to a “change in life circumstances” (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc).

Approx Jul/Aug 2019? – Lori apparently told JJ’s grandparents KW & LW, and other people, that Tylee was attending BYU in Rexburg, ID. (Note: Date they were told this is unclear, but this detail comes from Dateline; JJ’s grandparent last had contact from Lori in July 2019 and last had contact from JJ Aug 10, 2019).

Jul/Aug 2019 - (from timeline entry re. info. released in Jan 2020) Tylee’s AZ friend [...] also shares: Tylee had originally planned to stay in AZ, but decided to go to ID for JJ’s sake. [...] Tylee said they were moving because Lori got a job in ID.

30 Aug 2019 – Lori calls NM, the man who trained JJ’s service dog Bailey, saying [...] she, JJ & Tylee are moving to Idaho to be near her daughter who is in school there

30 Aug 2019 – Lori, Tylee & JJ drive up to Colby’s workplace in Tylee’s Jeep. He comes out to talk to them briefly and they tell him they are moving the next day. CR says when he hugged them goodbye he did not know they were leaving AZ nor where they were moving to, but he thought it was good that Lori was getting the kids out of the house where CV died. Lori also told CR she got a new job but did not mention where the job was or what she was doing.

1st Week of Sep 2019 – Tylee was seen by a neighbor, SB, who helped Lori and AC move into 2 townhouse-style apts in the same complex in Rexburg. [...] Lori told SB she moved there to attend college.

5 Sep 2019, 7:26 am – Lori calls and sends an email to LIFE Academy in AZ to withdraw JJ from school, saying she got a new job out of state.

Approx 7 Sep 2019 – JJ told his friend, neighbor SB's son, that he and his sister would be leaving soon. "They played everyday almost, until [JJ] said he was moving to his grandmother's…They told my son that, 'Oh yeah, we're going to go visit my grandmother.' We didn't know where that was. I said, 'Oh, okay,' and I understood because school was about to start. The semester was about to start and she was going to school, from what I understood," SB said (LocalNews8 ABC)

18 Sep 2019, 2:00 - A nanny Lori found on care.com first comes to meet Lori and JJ. [...] Her daughter also lives in Rexburg and is going to college. She said [...] Occasionally her daughter would come visit for dinner or to do laundry, but she never said that she lived there with them.

27 Nov 2019 -- During the investigation into JJ’s disappearance, LE learns that Lori’s teen daughter Tylee Ryan moved with Lori to Rexburg on Sept 1 or 2 but Tylee has not been seen since early Sept. Lori said Tylee was attending classes at BYU-Idaho, but records show she was never enrolled at any BYU campus (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc; East Idaho News).


I think it's interesting to think about who was present/aware at each stage of the lies being told, also whether this had any chance of being filtered back to the children, and to see what JJ and Tylee themselves understood. Perhaps on July 11th Tylee had been considering the possibility of going to BYU Hawaii for a while, so she didn't interject, or she was just used to Lori lying.

The most interesting entry that I can see is what JJ says on approx. Sep 7th. I don't think JJ's friend is mistaken in what he heard because SB has a conscious thought process about what Tylee is going to be doing, and he himself seems to wonder if grandmother's location is connected with college location. I have to wonder if say the date is slightly off, and it was a day or so after Yellowstone on the 8th, leaving no possibility that JJ can talk about it with Tylee. And perhaps an excuse was given to JJ that Tylee was out visiting friends and would be moving with him to Kay's. I wasn't able to find the term dates for BYU despite extensive searches yesterday. Does anyone have this? I think the fact it came up in JJ's conversation could indicate that he was aware of changes in the house, like packing up Tylee's belongings.

moo

I can see LVD and CD taking the 5th on 9,000 questions on these types of lies and inconsistencies. TR heard LVD telling lies about various BYU schools when she hadn't even applied. So, what would be going through her mind about the future? Wouldn't TR begin to wonder why the dog was gone? I think TR was part of the lies around CV's death. So if LVD had planned months before to eliminate the children, TR might be sensing that? That final photo looks like TR is distressed to me. If you have ever been around an abuser, psycho or murderer there is a certainly hi level awareness of not to let your guard down for 1 second. LVD may have initially thought of sending TR to school (but wow, thats a lot of money she could instead use for herself). LVD could be more detached from JJ, he was adopted, had disability, and was tied to CV. LVD was no doubt infuriated that CV's life insurance went to KW. The tiny fragment of human in LVD might have thought the right thing to do would be to give JJ to KW. Instead, her vindictive impulses meant JJ would not go, to punish KW in place of CV (Who was already dead). But then, she could not have JJ disappear with TR around. TR may have rejected going off to school (although, I think its way more likely LVD didnt want to pay) to stay with JJ. That and other reasons (TR knowing too many secrets) she had to be killed first. I agree, that if TR had only been missing a day or 2, JJ might think she was coming back. But after a few days... he might start acting up... so the baby sitter enters the picture and just as fast is dismissed.
I think LVD was already planning to move to Kauai with CD where no one knew she had children. She told one person that her daughter was dead. It also crossed my mind that she might have referred to MBP as her "daughter" too. Was SB aware that MBP also moved to that complex? Did KW know anything about JJ coming to visit? I mean, was she asking him to come visit or did she offer to LVD to take care of him, prior to his disappearance?

 

[VeryVeritas]

This has also always struck me as odd, but I have rationalized this, as much of Lori’s relationships, as completely dysfunctional. Why were no questions ever asked of Colby regarding his maternal grandparents and normal uncle (Lori’s other brother) during his interviews? There were clearly boundaries set either by LE and Colby or both. Why? Something is very wrong in Lori’s family and nobody is talking. At all.

Also, why can’t Alex’s employer be named? I can’t see what difference it would make and might actually help find the kids if we could narrow down routes and States. How regularly was Alex even working? A search shows he sold a home in AZ in around 2017. Not sure if that was profit or loss for him. Was he living on this money? Did the Rexburg Townhomes do any background checks on anyone?

I agree, there is a gap in there that we can't publicly sleuth here. It may or may not help shed light on the JJs or TR's whereabouts. More likely to reveal earlier stages of dysfunction and dangerous behaviors that were not checked.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Good point, and plausible given what we know of KW's character. I'm a "follow the money" kind of guy, and it looks like Charles didn't have much. I can't find any record of them buying a house, there's a string of failed or defunct businesses whose addresses are apartments, he did a stint as an annuities salesman for a while, and the net cash position of their company (whose official name I still haven't found) at Feb 2019 what $12K. In fact his biggest asset appears (based on what I've found so far) to be that $1 M life insurance policy.

On the one hand it explains LVD's frustration with CV. On the other, with these people you have to figure things are hidden, using aliases, maybe using cash. AxC had a $147k IRS debt. So avoiding taxes might be a factor. One thing I can't imagine is relocating to Kauai broke. There was also the money LVD embezzled from CV's CA company... and how did CV pay for multiple cars? I agree with following the money, esp. In this case!

 

[VeryVeritas]

She did have access to that business account because she took money from it ( $35k) leaving nothing to pay employees (the representatives you mention perhaps?) but I don't know what the account was called. I do not think there was any money left but perhaps there are still commission receipts coming in on the policies he sold. I guess his executor (KVW?) will be dealing with that IMO.

Don't they prosecute for embezzlement? In that amount isnt it a federal crime?

 

[VeryVeritas]

It was Alex (conveniently now dead) who said JJ was with KW. Chad said he saw JJ in apartment 107 (Alex's ) in October and Lori said he was with MG at the movie Frozen. Both Chad and Lori rang MG to say he was with her. When LE finally got hold of her she said he had not been at her house for a couple of months, which would be September. So hopefully Chad has now been questioned further about his sighting of JJ in October. That seems to now be the last sighting of JJ.

When exactly in Sept did MG last see JJ? Before YNP I would expect. Otherwise, what would he be doing back in AZ? Alive in Oct in AxC's empty apt? Why don't I believe a word of that?

 

[spandangly]

That particular spring isnt one that is sulfuric acid? Just boiling water? If she were pushed into it, wouldnt that leave obvious evidence?

Several threads ago I did a deep (disturbing) dive on this topic. The short answer is that whether acidic or basic, in most of these "pots" there is high enough heat, combined with lots of agitation, so that yes, even bones could be dissolved in approx 24 hours. The place is also riddled with underground caverns (for lack of a better term) through which this water travels and things could settle out of sight before they dissolved entirely.

All that being said, I think pushing Tylee into a pot would have been too risky. At most, if she was killed by some other method, I think her body could have been disposed of that way. But pushing someone has a lot of variables--screaming, someone chancing upon you, even survival (some have gone in and swum out, only to die later).

ETA: many (possibly most) of these are not clear water--more like mud. So unless something is left on the bank, or floats to the surface, there would be no indication of anything below the surface.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Does anyone know, or maybe az lawyer, the 2 attorney's.that removed tbemselves from this case are they still bound by the confidentiality between client and attorney, evem though they are no longer representing her?

Yes.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

When exactly in Sept did MG last see JJ? Before YNP I would expect. Otherwise, what would he be doing back in AZ? Alive in Oct in AxC's empty apt? Why don't I believe a word of that?

OCT 2, babysiter was long gone, Chad and Lori were at the storage unit, Alex went shooting in Chandler. So if Chad saw JJ let's say OCT 2, then JJ was either home alone, with Melani somewhere, or in their car while they were at the storage unit. Chad is a terrible liar.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Great analysis, Tortoise. I found the BYU- Idaho academic calendar for 2019 is still up on their website: Master Calendar - Calendar
You may have to select the calendar dates you want to see. I'm not seeing when classes started but Sept 13th was New Student Orientation. That's usually held for freshmen the weekend before classes start at most colleges.

BYU- Hawaii started classes Sept 4th: https://academics.byuh.edu/sites/academics/files/2019-2020 Academic Calendar 10-3-19.pdf

It was Alex (conveniently now dead) who said JJ was with KW. Chad said he saw JJ in apartment 107 (Alex's ) in October and Lori said he was with MG at the movie Frozen. Both Chad and Lori rang MG to say he was with her. When LE finally got hold of her she said he had not been at her house for a couple of months, which would be September. So hopefully Chad has now been questioned further about his sighting of JJ in October. That seems to now be the last sighting of JJ.

Why after this ungodly length of time hasn't the "mother" of these children said a word about what happened to them?
What was CD doing at AxC's empty apartment in October? When exactly in October was this? (Trying to plug this into the timeline) Because if it was before TD's death or around the time of AxC's carbine attack on TD (or BB for that matter) this would be further evidence that they were all conspiring together. Or is CD planning on playing dumb that he didn't know that LVD and AxC were murderers and his butt slapping, evidence hiding, friendship was in no way premeditative? Aw, heck, he was just flirting and when the prophecized death of TD actually happened he was suddenly smitten by LVD such that, with TD still warm in the grave wedding bells would ring (in a tropical paradise) just 2 weeks later. Sure it's not a crime to butt slap, if the person is consenting. But since they were consenting adults they were physically involved just prior to TD's death and married just after. No evidence = no crime is what some people think. Yet there is evidence of a pre-existing relationship and pre-meditative acts. The wedding had to have been planned and that means the murder of TD had to have been planned. CD couldn't get divorced that fast. Isn't it a crime to rent a storage unit using the credit card of someone your brother murdered? I'm pretty sure it's a type of fraud, and that doing it across state lines or online and by phone makes a lot of things they did federal crimes.

 

[Bellat]

This is from the media thread post 85 and I think gives a possible meeting date of June 2017 for when Chad and Lori met. This would have been at a Northern Utah campout around June 2017. This is the foreword Chad wrote for MG's book.

Forward


From the moment I first met Melanie Gibb in the summer of 2017, I knew there was a burning passion within her to help others understand who they are, and that Jesus Christ truly loves them. I had just given an evening presentation to around 200 people at a campout in northern Utah when Melanie came up to me at the podium and started talking like we were old friends. I distinctly remember that she spoke energetically and with that charming Southern accent. She told me a bit about herself and that she loved to testify of Christ. Melanie told me if I ever got the chance, I should speak in her hometown of Mesa, Arizona. I told her I would like to do that someday, and she gave me a farewell hug. Then she and her friends walked off into the darkness, and I loaded up my truck for a long drive home to Idaho that night. Fast forward one year to June 2018. I had just finished writing my Times of Turmoil series, and I felt a strong impression to speak in Arizona about my novels. I had been to Phoenix only once before, nearly 15 years earlier, and I didn’t have a clue of how to arrange a speaking event there. Then a voice told me, “Contact Melanie Gibb.” I quickly remembered the energetic woman who had testified of Christ at the camp the previous year, and I knew if anyone could help me, she could. I got her cell number from a mutual friend, and soon we were chatting. I explained that I felt I should speak in the Phoenix area sometime in July. She laughed and said it would be blistering hot, but I somehow convinced her to see what we could do. To my delight, she called me back the next day with the idea of a combined speaking event with Arizona author Jason Mow. I thought it was a great idea, and Melanie jumped right to work to make it happen. Within a couple of days she had arranged the venue and was so helpful in every way. I greatly appreciated her generosity and positive attitude from start to finish. We had a good turnout for the presentation, and many important friendships were made that night. On the day of the event, Melanie and another friend picked me up at my hotel, and we had an enjoyable early dinner together where she told me more about the amazing journey she has been on throughout her life. It was somewhat of a surprise to realize this upbeat, happy woman had endured so many trials and seemingly endless obstacles. How did she keep a smile on her face? Then I realized it all revolved around her love for Jesus Christ. Melanie had truly been born again through the Savior. In January 2019 I had the privilege to be a guest on the new podcast that Jason Mow is hosting titled “Time To Warrior Up.” Melanie is one of the co-hosts, and we had a wonderful time recording those episodes. I have come to understand that she is a powerful warrior in her own right, and that her true gift is helping people understand their true worth as sons and daughters of God. She is spreading that message and allowing others to “feel the fire” of a burning testimony of the gospel. This book is filled with poignant, unforgettable stories from Melanie’s life that will stick with you long after you have finished the book. She is one of those wonderful people who come into our lives like a pleasant summer breeze that refreshes our souls. I’m so grateful for her example of kindness and generosity, and I know these traits will continue to expand in her life. Thank you, Melanie, for writing this book. - Chad Daybell February 2019 Gibb.

It drives me crazy that everything he talks about all relives around him getting a voice that tells him to do this and that and with whom ! I can understand having a near death experience... I for one would find that interesting..... but to be around someone who supposedly gets all these messages from the holy one all because he himself is so special; would put up red flags for me right there. All the books are really about how special Chad is.... read one then done.

 

[VeryVeritas]

OCT 2, babysiter was long gone, Chad and Lori were at the storage unit, Alex went shooting in Chandler. So if Chad saw JJ let's say OCT 2, then JJ was either home alone, with Melani somewhere, or in their car while they were at the storage unit. Chad is a terrible liar.

Was MBP proven to be in Rexburg when AxC was shooting at BB in AZ?
MBP was also showing up at BB's parents house just after?
So I thought MBP was with AxC when he was doing the shooting and when she was harassing BB's parents.

 

[JosefZ]

Several threads ago I did a deep (disturbing) dive on this topic. The short answer is that whether acidic or basic, in most of these "pots" there is high enough heat, combined with lots of agitation, so that yes, even bones could be dissolved in approx 24 hours. The place is also riddled with underground caverns (for lack of a better term) through which this water travels and things could settle out of sight before they dissolved entirely.

All that being said, I think pushing Tylee into a pot would have been too risky. At most, if she was killed by some other method, I think her body could have been disposed of that way. But pushing someone has a lot of variables--screaming, someone chancing upon you, even survival (some have gone in and swum out, only to die later).

ETA: many (possibly most) of these are not clear water--more like mud. So unless something is left on the bank, or floats to the surface, there would be no indication of anything below the surface.

What bothers me about the logistics of killing TR in YNP is how it would look to JJ. The only way I see it happening is that they stage a send-off of TR to persons in another vehicle, coming up with a storyline that’s believable to the both of them. Otherwise, both TR and JJ would freak out. Another possibility is that both TR and JJ are drugged to an unconscious state whereby JJ is unaware of what happens to TR. A third possibility is that TR is dropped off at a cabin on the way home. But it would, again, have to be a believable scenario for both TR and JJ. Then there’s the case of where did TR meet her demise, if she did. The park is packed in early September. That makes me think it happened outside the park. There are plenty of opportunities once outside the park where dirt roads are lightly travelled. She could be any number of places. Whatever happened, and hopefully someday we find out, it’s horrific to think that humans are capable of such cruelty. MOO

 

[VeryVeritas]

It drives me crazy that everything he talks about all relives around him getting a voice that tells him to do this and that and with whom ! I can understand having a near death experience... I for one would find that interesting..... but to be around someone who supposedly gets all these messages from the holy one all because he himself is so special; would put up red flags for me right there. All the books are really about how special Chad is.... read one then done.

I don't want to get into a rabbit hole about LDS beliefs, but my understanding is that as a believer certain people have received such messages and certain people continue to get such messages (not the nature of CD's messages, but the from the origin you described). Others back some threads have said this makes LDS people more likely to accept CD's "prophecy". Not sure what the criteria is to deem someone "Legitimate" (like the LDS President) vs. a complete fraud or nutcase. Personally, I've never met a "Psychic, Fortuneteller, or Prophet" who was right more than they were wrong. There are people that predict the stock market will crash every day of every year, sooner or later they are right. But almost all of the time, they are wrong. Red flags for sure, yet, to even be listening to someone like that you have to be oblivious to red flags.

 

[VeryVeritas]

What bothers me about the logistics of killing TR in YNP is how it would look to JJ. The only way I see it happening is that they stage a send-off of TR to persons in another vehicle, coming up with a storyline that’s believable to the both of them. Otherwise, both TR and JJ would freak out. Another possibility is that both TR and JJ are drugged to an unconscious state whereby JJ is unaware of what happens to TR. A third possibility is that TR is dropped off at a cabin on the way home. But it would, again, have to be a believable scenario for both TR and JJ. Then there’s the case of where did TR meet her demise, if she did. The park is packed in early September. That makes me think it happened outside the park. There are plenty of opportunities once outside the park where dirt roads are lightly travelled. She could be any number of places. Whatever happened, and hopefully someday we find out, it’s horrific to think that humans are capable of such cruelty. MOO

What about a combination of the 2nd and 3rd? After a long day at YNP everyone would be tired. JJ might even pass out on his own. If drugged even more certain. They then could pull over... drive home and come up with a story for JJ the next day, and get him excited about going to see grandma! Why tell JJ he is going to visit his grandma's? Was that so that he would tell other people and they wouldn't wonder why he disappeared? Premeditation.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Been thinking about the statements to police in the timeline regarding CV's murder.
AxC said something about "He was accusing me..."
and when probed he changed the subject.
It's very speculative what they were arguing about, but AxC did say that much before he shut up.
And so, what could CV have been accusing AxC of?
I can see CV taking a bat away from TR
and struggling with AxC (because AxC would no doubt attack at the drop of a hat)
and can see LVD picking up CV's phone and taunting him.
But those accusations...
Also, I think it was TR that gave a statement about bedrooms.
I only heard about 3 bedrooms. JJ's, TR's and the guest one for AxC
Was there a 4th where LVD was? or was this only a 3 br place?
What could CV accuse AxC of?
Helping LVD? If so, to do what?
Abusing a child?
Sleeping with LVD?
Stealing from him? If so, what?
Using TR's car?
What, if anything, would make sense?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Don't they prosecute for embezzlement? In that amount isnt it a federal crime?

Are you kidding? Since when has Lori actually been held to account to her lawbreaking? Maybe now, if we cross our fingers. :/

/s