Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #30

[VeryVeritas]

The Chandler LE represents one of the greatest "missed opportunities" in this case. Not following up on the concealed weapon is another nail in Chandler LE coffin (i know...bad use of terms). But the other thing that this situation when Charles was killed brings up to me is this "Family Cox". It is one of my biggest mysteries.... So many of the pieces of information we pick up from this case, just show how casual and easy Lori and Alex can and continue to skirt the law. In the genes.

I wouldn't say "genes" more like seasoned criminals? Their thoughts would have to be pretty much always be focused on devious things and avoiding consequences. There are a lot of books on the subject of who winds up in prison. Extremely high % are the result of having been in Foster homes (which usually means their parents were even worse) and those who have low IQ's + low socioeconomic status(My thought is they are easier to catch and prosecute). This is why I have a curiosity of what LV's and AxC's childhood was like. They appear to have started these behaviors a long long time ago, and it's only catching up now. I do think some psychopaths are born that way, but most grow to be that way partially by external influences and partly by their own choices. Perhaps there is research out there where there is a genetic predispostion to a lack of empathy? Scientists have claimed to have found a "warrior" gene that makes some people more prone to violence. Haven't seen that used in court yet.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Yes he travelled quite a bit. "a needle in a haystack" applies to all the zillions of places he could have been with those children.

I studied the map for a while from Chandler, AZ to Rexburg, ID. nearly 1,000 miles! Thinking of that Stauch case, she drove from CO to dump the body in FL. Even the area around Rexburg is vast, but all the way to Chandler, wow...

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I wouldn't say "genes" more like seasoned criminals? Their thoughts would have to be pretty much always be focused on devious things and avoiding consequences. There are a lot of books on the subject of who winds up in prison. Extremely high % are the result of having been in Foster homes (which usually means their parents were even worse) and those who have low IQ's + low socioeconomic status(My thought is they are easier to catch and prosecute). This is why I have a curiosity of what LV's and AxC's childhood was like. They appear to have started these behaviors a long long time ago, and it's only catching up now. I do think some psychopaths are born that way, but most grow to be that way partially by external influences and partly by their own choices. Perhaps there is research out there where there is a genetic predispostion to a lack of empathy? Scientists have claimed to have found a "warrior" gene that makes some people more prone to violence. Haven't seen that used in court yet.

They certainly grew up with a lot of anti-government legal issues (AxC is even on the law docs). Warrior gene?? Well certainly learned if not born with!! ha ha ... all the "warrior-up" stuff with their fellow podcasters..

 

[Gardener1850]

Is it usual in the US to register as a patient with a general medical practitioner after moving to a new town? And they request the medical history be transferred?

I'm not sure why you're asking but my experience is that it is up to each person and each medical provider how they handle the transfer of records and if they even request them at all. I believe someone could easily move and choose not to get a new dr in their new location and/or never request the transfer of records. For example, if Lori moved to Idaho and didn't bother to get a new dr for the kids then their old pediatricians office in AZ would never know she moved at all. It's her responsibility to get them a new dr and she would have to disclose any and all medical conditions to the new dr (every new dr you go to you fill out a bunch of forms asking your medical history). In my experience drs only request past records from other providers if you have an ongoing medical condition and they need the documentation. But that is not always the case and it apparently depends on the medical condition and the dr.

For example, I carry an epipen for a severe allergy. Some drs want to know the name of the dr who first diagnosed my allergy so they can request official record of diagnosis before they will prescribe me a new epipen prescription (I had bloodwork that proved my allergy was severe). Other drs will prescribe me an epipen prescription renewal without asking for the dr's name or any evidence of my diagnosis. Most drs take me at my word when I say I have an allergy and show them my current epipen I carry, which I appreciate as it's a life threatening situation if my epipen expires and I can't get a new one OR if the new dr doesn't note an allergy and I'm later prescribed something I'm allergic to.

Bottom line is there doesn't seem to be any uniformity in our laws on when drs are supposed to request medical history records. It would be easy to "forget" to disclose something and the new office wouldn't think there was any need to request records. Or it would be easy to move somewhere and not bother to find a new dr at all. Now that said, most insurance plans these days require at least a yearly physical (or give incentives for you to get one) and schools usually require kids to be up on their immunizations (exceptions being for health or religious reasons on a state by state basis).

If Lori took the kids to a new pediatrician in Idaho she could have presented their immunization records for school admission only and say the kids have no underlying medical conditions at all. The new dr might not request any records from their former dr in that case. She could have omitted JJ's past diagnosis of autism and it might not have been found out in Idaho. We already know that JJ's school records were never transferred from AZ. With him having autism he likely would have had an IEP: Individualized Education Program - Wikipedia
IMOO, that IEP should have been requested by the new school if they were made aware he had autism. I strongly suspect that Lori didn't tell the new school JJ's diagnoses or perhaps she told them something else that prevented the new school from trying to request his records? I'm not sure what she could have told them. It seems like she never informed the old school of JJ's new location either so the old school had no place to send his records. Lori has moved states many times in her life so if she failed to take the right actions to get records transferred (either medical or school records) it was done on purpose.

MOO.

 

[divineappt]

It is if you have children, because there are usually immunization and other requirements by the school/state. But there doesn't seem to be any enrollments in a new school? That also would point to premeditation. Why enroll them in school if they are going to be eliminated?

MOO Lori claimed she was going to homeschool JJ. She informed the school as such which is all that is required by Idaho law. How to Start Homeschooling in Idaho

 

[sgjsnow]

Thank you, and yes I understand the adversarial system very well. The burden of proof is upon the state to prove the alleged charges and the burden is upon the defense to introduce reasonable doubt. Hypothetically, if you were on this jury, I wonder how you would feel about the state putting on a lot of evidence to support the allegation that the children are dead, if she did and said absolutely nothing to show the court that this is not the case.

As regards the zombie evidence I think they could introduce it via NP, and a download of the computer that IP gave her for the children, even if IP pleads the 5th, unless there were court orders decided by the judge before trial stating that it is prejudicial and inadmissible. It depends which side wins that argument. I don't think they could argue it wasn't IP who wrote it, given the content.

moo

And if I remember correctly MBP’s lawyers basically admitted/inferred that IP wrote that stuff.

 

[sgjsnow]

The Chandler LE represents one of the greatest "missed opportunities" in this case. Not following up on the concealed weapon is another nail in Chandler LE coffin (i know...bad use of terms). But the other thing that this situation when Charles was killed brings up to me is this "Family Cox". It is one of my biggest mysteries.... So many of the pieces of information we pick up from this case, just show how casual and easy Lori and Alex can and continue to skirt the law. In the genes.

In the body cam footage there was a lady talking with Lori and I believe she was in a black dress. Was this her mom or other Cox relative? Does anyone remember the same or know who that could be?

 

[indicolite22]

Thank you, and yes I understand the adversarial system very well. The burden of proof is upon the state to prove the alleged charges and the burden is upon the defense to introduce reasonable doubt. Hypothetically, if you were on this jury, I wonder how you would feel about the state putting on a lot of evidence to support the allegation that the children are dead, if she did and said absolutely nothing to show the court that this is not the case.

I don't think the prosecution will go forward with the murder charges until there is a great chance of a successful conviction. IMO, the evidence currently in the public domain doesn't suffice.

As regards the zombie evidence I think they could introduce it via NP, and a download of the computer that IP gave her for the children, even if IP pleads the 5th, unless there were court orders decided by the judge before trial stating that it is prejudicial and inadmissible. It depends which side wins that argument. I don't think they could argue it wasn't IP who wrote it, given the content.

moo

IP's document gives Melani as the source and Melani could deny it now. It would help if the claims were corroborated by a different source (like MG). It's still circumstantial, just like Lori threatening Charles isn't proof enough that she killed him.

 

[divineappt]

I wouldn't say "genes" more like seasoned criminals? Their thoughts would have to be pretty much always be focused on devious things and avoiding consequences. There are a lot of books on the subject of who winds up in prison. Extremely high % are the result of having been in Foster homes (which usually means their parents were even worse) and those who have low IQ's + low socioeconomic status(My thought is they are easier to catch and prosecute). This is why I have a curiosity of what LV's and AxC's childhood was like. They appear to have started these behaviors a long long time ago, and it's only catching up now. I do think some psychopaths are born that way, but most grow to be that way partially by external influences and partly by their own choices. Perhaps there is research out there where there is a genetic predispostion to a lack of empathy? Scientists have claimed to have found a "warrior" gene that makes some people more prone to violence. Haven't seen that used in court yet.

The old saying “more is caught than taught” may have some bearing here. Not saying the Cox family have not been taught a lot, but a lot more is often said by what we don’t say than what is actually said. That said, knowing more about family upbringing can help a case as this dramatically, I would think. It would at least help me ! MOO

 

[divineappt]

I'm not sure why you're asking but my experience is that it is up to each person and each medical provider how they handle the transfer of records and if they even request them at all. I believe someone could easily move and choose not to get a new dr in their new location and/or never request the transfer of records. For example, if Lori moved to Idaho and didn't bother to get a new dr for the kids then their old pediatricians office in AZ would never know she moved at all. It's her responsibility to get them a new dr and she would have to disclose any and all medical conditions to the new dr (every new dr you go to you fill out a bunch of forms asking your medical history). In my experience drs only request past records from other providers if you have an ongoing medical condition and they need the documentation. But that is not always the case and it apparently depends on the medical condition and the dr.

For example, I carry an epipen for a severe allergy. Some drs want to know the name of the dr who first diagnosed my allergy so they can request official record of diagnosis before they will prescribe me a new epipen prescription (I had bloodwork that proved my allergy was severe). Other drs will prescribe me an epipen prescription renewal without asking for the dr's name or any evidence of my diagnosis. Most drs take me at my word when I say I have an allergy and show them my current epipen I carry, which I appreciate as it's a life threatening situation if my epipen expires and I can't get a new one OR if the new dr doesn't note an allergy and I'm later prescribed something I'm allergic to.

Bottom line is there doesn't seem to be any uniformity in our laws on when drs are supposed to request medical history records. It would be easy to "forget" to disclose something and the new office wouldn't think there was any need to request records. Or it would be easy to move somewhere and not bother to find a new dr at all. Now that said, most insurance plans these days require at least a yearly physical (or give incentives for you to get one) and schools usually require kids to be up on their immunizations (exceptions being for health or religious reasons on a state by state basis).

If Lori took the kids to a new pediatrician in Idaho she could have presented their immunization records for school admission only and say the kids have no underlying medical conditions at all. The new dr might not request any records from their former dr in that case. She could have omitted JJ's past diagnosis of autism and it might not have been found out in Idaho. We already know that JJ's school records were never transferred from AZ. With him having autism he likely would have had an IEP: Individualized Education Program - Wikipedia
IMOO, that IEP should have been requested by the new school if they were made aware he had autism. I strongly suspect that Lori didn't tell the new school JJ's diagnoses or perhaps she told them something else that prevented the new school from trying to request his records? I'm not sure what she could have told them. It seems like she never informed the old school of JJ's new location either so the old school had no place to send his records. Lori has moved states many times in her life so if she failed to take the right actions to get records transferred (either medical or school records) it was done on purpose.

MOO.

Add to that, she could have told the school that he was previously only homeschooled and now that she was single and had a job would have to enroll him. Happens. MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

In the body cam footage there was a lady talking with Lori and I believe she was in a black dress. Was this her mom or other Cox relative? Does anyone remember the same or know who that could be?

Which body cam footage do you mean? Can you find us a link please? I don't recall seeing that. Thanks.

 

[tresir2012]

Show a case where a parent was last to be with a child, the child vanishes, the parent doesnt report it, and the child is not presumed dead.

CD said he last saw JJ in October in apartment 107, Alex's apartment, so he (CD) is currently the last person to see JJ, it seems.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm not sure why you're asking but my experience is that it is up to each person and each medical provider how they handle the transfer of records and if they even request them at all. I believe someone could easily move and choose not to get a new dr in their new location and/or never request the transfer of records. For example, if Lori moved to Idaho and didn't bother to get a new dr for the kids then their old pediatricians office in AZ would never know she moved at all. It's her responsibility to get them a new dr and she would have to disclose any and all medical conditions to the new dr (every new dr you go to you fill out a bunch of forms asking your medical history). In my experience drs only request past records from other providers if you have an ongoing medical condition and they need the documentation. But that is not always the case and it apparently depends on the medical condition and the dr.

For example, I carry an epipen for a severe allergy. Some drs want to know the name of the dr who first diagnosed my allergy so they can request official record of diagnosis before they will prescribe me a new epipen prescription (I had bloodwork that proved my allergy was severe). Other drs will prescribe me an epipen prescription renewal without asking for the dr's name or any evidence of my diagnosis. Most drs take me at my word when I say I have an allergy and show them my current epipen I carry, which I appreciate as it's a life threatening situation if my epipen expires and I can't get a new one OR if the new dr doesn't note an allergy and I'm later prescribed something I'm allergic to.

Bottom line is there doesn't seem to be any uniformity in our laws on when drs are supposed to request medical history records. It would be easy to "forget" to disclose something and the new office wouldn't think there was any need to request records. Or it would be easy to move somewhere and not bother to find a new dr at all. Now that said, most insurance plans these days require at least a yearly physical (or give incentives for you to get one) and schools usually require kids to be up on their immunizations (exceptions being for health or religious reasons on a state by state basis).

If Lori took the kids to a new pediatrician in Idaho she could have presented their immunization records for school admission only and say the kids have no underlying medical conditions at all. The new dr might not request any records from their former dr in that case. She could have omitted JJ's past diagnosis of autism and it might not have been found out in Idaho. We already know that JJ's school records were never transferred from AZ. With him having autism he likely would have had an IEP: Individualized Education Program - Wikipedia
IMOO, that IEP should have been requested by the new school if they were made aware he had autism. I strongly suspect that Lori didn't tell the new school JJ's diagnoses or perhaps she told them something else that prevented the new school from trying to request his records? I'm not sure what she could have told them. It seems like she never informed the old school of JJ's new location either so the old school had no place to send his records. Lori has moved states many times in her life so if she failed to take the right actions to get records transferred (either medical or school records) it was done on purpose.

MOO.

Thank you for the detailed reply Gardener. Yes, I was thinking about it in regards to JJ, and whether she could visit any doctor in Rexburg for him without them knowing him, to get his meds renewed or for any other treatment, since he was there for the better part of a month and I would have expected that to be a parent's priority soon after the move. I wondered if it was another thing that shows she knew he wasn't going to need it.

moo

 

[Tortoise]

Which body cam footage do you mean? Can you find us a link please? I don't recall seeing that. Thanks.

starts at about 12:16 mins into the second video

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

 

[Gardener1850]

starts at about 12:16 mins into the second video

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

Thank you! Oh, I remember seeing that now. My assumption when I saw that was that the woman in black was a neighbor who came over to talk to Lori since later while talking to the police officer Lori mentions she doesn't know her neighbors because she has only been there 3 weeks and says "Hi... neighbor" in an awkward voice as if she had waved to or spoken to a neighbor she doesn't know. Somewhere in the footage of the officer talking to Alex on the curb there is an old man who approaches as if to ask if everything is okay (another neighbor I assume) and the officer asks the old man to go back to his house.

MOO.

 

[MTW2011]

This video is from back in February, sorry if it was already shared here. I just found it today, a coworker and friend (ex-friend now because of their publication rights dispute) doesn’t seem the Chad she used to see, that he’s changed so much. Interesting pieces were how frequently he told her he saw Tammy dying, and how they were very tight on money but that he was trying to save his marriage (the same marriage where he kept having visions of her dying)

 

[Gardener1850]

At about 10:55 the neighbor's garage door opens and a woman in black comes out of the garage and goes through her gate into her backyard:





Then at about 11:20 the woman in black comes out from her backyard wheeling her trash can to the curb:


Then at 11:47 we get a glimpse of the woman standing in her driveway looking at what is going on:


At 12:09 we glimpse the woman crossing the street towards Lori and Tylee and by 12:17 she is seen approaching them:



So most definitely the woman in black was the next door neighbor.

Video:

Edited to tag @sgjsnow

MOO.

 

[Anonymous91]

I don't agree but it is interesting to see what evidence different people require before they would comfortably convict.

On the above view, murderers who have a good method of body disposal, and with no reports to authorities that the cared for minors and vulnerable persons are missing, would always get away with it. She knows her responsibilities are always present because she gave (false) accounts to various people of where they were, college and with MG watching the movie Frozen 2. There is no chance of a wrongful conviction imo, because the justice system allows her professional representation to defend herself, and she can say what happened to them and prove they are alive, and walk away a free woman.

moo

I finally figured out why she likes to tell everyone that they were at the movie Frozen II.

She wants everybody "To Let it Go".

MOO

 

[divineappt]

I finally figured out why she likes to tell everyone that they were at the movie Frozen II.

She wants everybody "To Let it Go".

MOO

Thanks for the chuckle!

 

[Anonymous91]

That's not really an equivalent scenario, is it? Biological Parents hiding or kidnapping children as part of a custody dispute (As even BB is doing for their own safety) is not the same thing. That is in fact how most children in the USA go missing, it's a domestic abduction. LVD was not in a custody dispute, until after TR and JJ went missing. And that is not with their legal fathers (both of whom are very dead, even though JJ was adopted). Now, perhaps someone can detail what happens in ID; if LVD is found to have been an unfit mother by not caring for her children, they vanish and she doesn't prove they are alive? KW's filing for custody of JJ should be heard, right? If custody is awarded to KW and JJ still isn't produced, then what? At the same time, the piles of circumstantial evidence can not be ignored. When it comes to domestic violence, especially children, the constitution is turned on it's head and you have to essentially prove your innocence. Unfortunately, a % of people abuse those laws, falsely accusing of sexual abuse, etc... to get an upper hand on a spouse in a divorce/custody dispute. The intensity of abuse of those laws, use of "ex-parte protection orders, etc" does vary by state.

I'm no lawyer, so MOO.

My guess is that may be why LE is not charging her with additional charges yet.

If KW can win custody of JJ, then that changes the rules of the game. So, LE may be waiting for that to happen first.

Then if Lori isn't able to produce JJ, then they can and will charge her for more charges.

This also gives them time to build a stronger case for both kids being murdered, with no bodies.

I believe that LE is playing the long game. Right now Lori is where they want her, in jail.

Seeing that the FBI is involved, there is a lot more involved than 2 missing kids. My guess is one or more of the following:

- They have strong evidence that both of the kids are dead.

- They suspect that LVD is a Serial Killer that has killed in multiple States.

- They are investigating the cults that LVD and CD belong too, and are looking to bring these people down, before this turns into another Waco incident.

I am guessing that one or more of those reasons are why the FBI is involved.

MOO