Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #42

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Did it really take only 2.5 hours to burn and bury the remains? It looks like they put bricks on top. How long does it take to dig a grave? How come that nobody saw it from the road that is next to the backyard or from the neighbor's house across the road? Were the neighbors at work at the time? Chad must have calculated the risk of being seen.
Digging would not look suspicious in a rural area. I'm guessing that they were inexperienced at body disposal (aren't we all) and tried the burning and dismembering to make a smaller hole - less work and more consistent with the raccoon story. I've buried my share of pets and even in the hard Arizona soil digging a hole put a medium sized dog in with a foot or so of dirt on top only took me less than 15 minutes. We've heard the soil in that part of Idaho is hard to dig in because it is rocky. That makes sense since I think the area is a glacial moraine. But I did not see a lot of rocks in the search pictures so it may very widely depending on specific area.

Not to get too gross here but people are animals. Most of us have experience cooking meat. On a hot fire you can pretty much turn a steak into charcoal in half an hour. I can see 2.5 hours being a reasonable time with some missteps. One digger, one griller...

I'm actually thinking that AC's possible trip to St. Anthony might have been to buy a pickaxe, saw, or axe to hasten the process. The man had a date with a taco so he was probably in a hurry. It could have been a stray ping as well. Maybe someone local can tell us if there is a hardware, garden supply, or similar store in St. Anthony.
 
What exactly is Lori's dance video?

I understand that Lori is said to have sent a video of her dancing to CD but when and what was the nature of the video and how do we know about it (like a media link)?

CV allegedly shared that information with his sister Kay Woodcock not long after he discovered it, which is when she reportedly told him "She's either having an affair or is about to" (or words to that effect). <<-- this was reported widely earlier on by MSM, however I'm not clear on what corroboration or proof of this may exist. I also saw it referred to as "videos" (plural). Apparently Dateline declined to include it in their initial story:

'Dateline NBC' correspondent Keith Morrison discusses the case of missing Rexburg kids
 
Could you pls provide a link or source that supports your asserting that a neighbor of the Daybell's heard a gunshot on the morning of Sept 9? I have not heard that.

All we have is CD's text to TD about a fictitious raccoon (a story which the RPD officer believed to be

EDIT: Yeah I'm not sure where September 9 came from either. That's conjecture. So far nobody has claimed hearing a gunshot that I'm aware of.

ETA: I recall someone conjecturing that maybe Garth wasn't good with dates, conflating mid-July (when there was a raccoon shooting, heard by a neighbor) and early September.
 
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SBM ... Chad didn't say anything about a "gunshot", he said he had killed a raccoon. This texted story however was, and still is, thought by RPD to be a complete lie.

In the affidavit released today CD texts TD that he grabbed his gun and got close enough to the “raccoon” to kill it with one shot.

Page 7 of the 26 page PDF.
 
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FWIW September 23 seems to be special to CD. Grandma Lucille appeared to him in one of his spirit imaginings. 16- Paving the way to Paradise | cdaybell.com
Do you think this has any connection to the date chosen for JJ to die?
This is what I get for going deep into an earlier thread.... Sep 23 gets discussed in Thread #4 around #846

Isn't Tylee's birthday the 23rd?
Digging would not look suspicious in a rural area. I'm guessing that they were inexperienced at body disposal (aren't we all) and tried the burning and dismembering to make a smaller hole - less work and more consistent with the raccoon story. I've buried my share of pets and even in the hard Arizona soil digging a hole put a medium sized dog in with a foot or so of dirt on top only took me less than 15 minutes. We've heard the soil in that part of Idaho is hard to dig in because it is rocky. That makes sense since I think the area is a glacial moraine. But I did not see a lot of rocks in the search pictures so it may very widely depending on specific area.

Not to get too gross here but people are animals. Most of us have experience cooking meat. On a hot fire you can pretty much turn a steak into charcoal in half an hour. I can see 2.5 hours being a reasonable time with some missteps. One digger, one griller...

I'm actually thinking that AC's possible trip to St. Anthony might have been to buy a pickaxe, saw, or axe to hasten the process. The man had a date with a taco so he was probably in a hurry. It could have been a stray ping as well. Maybe someone local can tell us if there is a hardware, garden supply, or similar store in St. Anthony.
I noticed in the aerial photos that the pile of dirt by the backhoe looks to be pretty much free of rocks. Maybe the digging wasn't too hard. There are a couple of hardware stores in St Anthony. My personal guess is that he went to buy a can of gas. MOO.
 
In the affidavit released today CD texts TD that he grabbed his gun and got close enough to the “raccoon” to kill it with one shot.

Page 7 of the 26 page PDF.

Yeah, very odd that he goes out of his way to explain killing it with a single shot. I'm pondering if that's just added detail to try to sell the lie (a mistake that liars often make -- over-selling, being overly-detailed), or if he felt he needed to explain a single gunshot that someone nearby may have heard. I imagine we'll find out as more info is (hopefully) released.
 
Isn't Tylee's birthday the 23rd?

I noticed in the aerial photos that the pile of dirt by the backhoe looks to be pretty much free of rocks. Maybe the digging wasn't too hard. There are a couple of hardware stores in St Anthony. My personal guess is that he went to buy a can of gas. MOO.

9/24/2002. It's in the timeline.

ETA: Wait... a can of gas for what? The backhoe you're referring to was brought in by the police when the warrant was executed, I think. Otherwise I'm very confused.
 
In the affidavit released today CD texts TD that he grabbed his gun and got close enough to the “raccoon” to kill it with one shot.

Page 7 of the 26 page PDF.

Right. But that doesn't make any of it true. Chad lied in order to preemptively excuse any disturbed soil and/or foul smells which TD might notice coming from that area of their back yard.

In the very same afidavit that includes the text, LE dismisses the text as a probable lie. That's pretty clear to me. The fact that no neighbor reported hearing a gunshot (regardless of what a lying CD texted TD) further supports that it never happened. Jmo
 
Respectfully snipped
Ya know, you might not be the "stupid" one here! I did a double take, too. I'm thinking CD made a Freudian slip and accidentally used "limbs" (with the double meaning) instead of "branches" (which is generally a tree thing and only metaphorically something else) because he was thinking of a body while he made the excuse. His mind accidentally pushed out the word that meant he had been burning the limbs [of a body].
In Statement Analysis (admittedly not a proven science), they call this "leakage"--because the truth subconsciously leaks into our thoughts and therefore our language. FWIW

I listened to Gray Hughes last night and he has an interesting theory about TR's demise....he thinks (I am paraphrasing here, not his words verbatim) they slipped something in her drink when they stopped at the BBQ place and she fell asleep on the way home from Yellowstone due to the sedative.

Once they got back to Rexburg they put JJ to bed (he could have fallen asleep or been given a sedative as well) and just left TR in the truck where her further demise went down.

Thoughts?

Why would Alex spend an hour+ in LVDs apartment in the wee hours of the morning if Tylee had been left in the truck?

LOL-- Yeah.. October 1st-- she talked to JJ, because you know, well, you know, and he knows--you know, he knows who we are.
Here is the quote
""
Janis Cox says she called Lori on October 1 — a full week later — and could hear JJ playing in the background. She gave "48 Hours" her phone records that showed a 97-minute call.

Janis Cox: He was alive and well.

Jonathan Vigliotti: How do you know that though?

Janis Cox: Because I know JJ … no one's gonna pretend to be JJ.

At one point, she says JJ actually got on the phone and said, "Hi Mimi," his nickname for her.

Jonathan Vigliotti: You spoke with him though on the phone?

Janis Cox: Yeah. Yes. And I heard him and he was out playing … And— he just takes the phone, you know — and he knows — you know, he knows who we are.

Janis Cox: So he still knew I'm Mimi, you know? He still knew me, Mimi.

Just WOW-- a straight out and out LIE--- did he speak to her through the veil ??
Inquiring minds want to know.
She and the whole family are nothing but a bunch of liars, IMO
Now that you've brought this quote forward it made me think she's talking like she was listening to see if he was a zombie. I may just be reading into it, of course, but phrases like "he still knew I'm Mimi" and "he knows who we are" suddenly seem less strange if I view them in that light. Maybe she did talk to him after LVD claimed he was a zombie, but it was not on Oct 1?

ALL MOO
 
Right. But that doesn't make any of it true. Chad lied in order to preemptively excuse any disturbed soil and/or foul smells which TD might notice coming from that area of their back yard.

In the very same afidavit that includes the text, LE dismisses the text as a probable lie. That's pretty clear to me. The fact that no neighbor reported hearing a gunshot (regardless of what a lying CD texted TD) further supports that it never happened. Jmo

I think it’s pretty clear to all of us that these people lie as easily as they breathe.

Guess we will have to see if Tylee was shot and go from there.
 
BBM for focus


Is he though? IMO you're making quite a leap here. Much has been made in several threads of his earlier occupation as a gravedigger, but gravediggers really don't routinely handle bodies. They handle sealed caskets containing bodies. They dig a big hole, a casket is lowered into it, they bury it, the end. He would not have been involved (unless someone knows differently) with anything much other than that. As such he would have been an employee of either the city or the church (which is who typically owns and maintains cemeteries) and not the mortuary/funeral director. (as always, anyone who knows differently, please educate me, I'm basing this on experience in general talking to and consulting with sextons and cemeteries through genealogical research, and without knowledge of any special LDS-specific traditions that might exist).

So I guess I'm saying that although he might be inured to the idea of being around caskets and graves, that he would have zero reasons to have ever directly handled a corpse himself, other than perhaps in the case of a gravedigging mishap (which I'm sure happens).

JMOO

I think his reason is that he wanted to. For fun.
 
Right. But that doesn't make any of it true. Chad lied in order to preemptively excuse any disturbed soil and/or foul smells which TD might notice coming from that area of their back yard.

In the very same afidavit that includes the text, LE dismisses the text as a probable lie. That's pretty clear to me. The fact that no neighbor reported hearing a gunshot (regardless of what a lying CD texted TD) further supports that it never happened. Jmo

I disagree. Not about the fact that he's lying, but about why he's doing it. First off, the detective doesn't assert that it's a "lie". The affidavit merely said that the text exchange was 'suspicious'. You might call that semantics, but I don't. I think he's being clear and specific. One saying that I like a lot is "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". The affidavit doesn't make clear who was home and who they questioned other than the one neighbor. Depending on the wind, who was/wasn't home, what they were doing, and other factors there may have been a shot that nobody heard. The detective also only identified the raccoon part as suspicious... not the gunshot part. This may be significant later, given that the warrant was on specific charges that did not include the murders themselves.

GRAPHIC--

I just think that Chad wouldn't make up this story and be so specific about a single shot if it wasn't because he or an accomplice had in fact fired a single shot.. likely to ensure that a heavily drugged Tylee was dead before doing anything else to her body. I hate saying these words but it's been in my head since the affidavit was unsealed.
 
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I disagree. Not about the fact that he's lying, but about why he's doing it. First off, the detective doesn't assert that it's a "lie". The affidavit merely said that the text exchange was 'suspicious'. You might call that semantics, but I don't. I think he's being clear and specific. One saying that I like a lot is "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". The affidavit doesn't make clear who was home and who they questioned other than the one neighbor. Depending on the wind, who was/wasn't home, what they were doing, and other factors there may have been a shot that nobody heard. The detective also only identified the raccoon part as suspicious... not the gunshot part. This may be significant later, given that the warrant was on specific charges that did not include the murders themselves.

GRAPHIC--

I just think that Chad wouldn't make up this story and be so specific about a single shot if it wasn't because he or an accomplice had in fact fired a single shot.. likely to ensure that a heavily drugged Tylee was dead before doing anything else to her body. I hate saying these words but it's been in my head since the affidavit was unsealed.

Thanks gumchew! You stated this so well! My brain is mush right now. I’m off to bed. Night all.
 
Does anyone else wonder what Charles Vallow was thinking when there was only JJ and not TR after Yellowstone weekend? And I wonder what they told JJ about where TR was. Just musing outloud....
Charles Vallow was dead by the time Tylee and JJ disappeared. Somewhere CV said JJ had the brain of a 4 year old. I think just telling him that Tylee was at Grandma's was enough.
 
If it hasn't been mentioned yet, I did call Mavericks today to see if they sold alcohol. And they do, they sell beer,wine and mixed drinks in bottles.It is a large convenience store. I believe alex bought booze. It was a 10 minute run.
The reason I needed to know is because I believe during those morning hours after they came back from YS that they had Tylee get real drunk. . Then I believe he dropped her off in the morning at Chads. They might have thought or knew she wasnt dead so she was shot and burned, the day Chad text Tammy.All on Sept 9th. 2019.
 
guys i have been so so busy with some stuff going on here in Australia, one a legal issue affecting a lot of people here and another we've gone back into lockdown due to spikes in covid

1 - the affidavit is truly very sad
2 - these people are as evil as we thought
3 - we know for 100% what was in the orange bag now i think
4 - alex cox was always a massive key to this

thanks to all the people who helped me research stuff over the weeks, its why i love websleuths
 
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guys i have been so so busy with some stuff going on here in Australia, one a legal issue affecting a lot of people here and another we've gone back into lockdown due to spikes in covid

1 - the affidavit is truly very sad
2 - this people are as evil as we thought
3 - we know for 100% what was in the orange bag now i think
4 - alex cox was always a massive key to this

thanks to all the people who helped me research stuff over the weeks, its why i love websleuths

your #4 is, IMO, why I feel pretty sure that Zulema won’t be able to keep herself out of the narrative much longer. Somebody is going to have to say what Alex was doing during these weeks... I wish her luck.
 
GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION
On page 10 of the affidavit notes that charred and uncharred bones and tissue were found. Unbelievably, Chad thought he could burn a human body in a large outdoor fire. I am not a murderer, but even I know that doesn’t work. I think he realized that it wasn’t going work and scooped everything up and put into the ground. Someone (here I think) hypothesized that they learned their lesson, and just wrapped up JJ and buried him. I think all the other bonfires were the adult kids.

Burning a human body takes immense heat and some time. Bear in mind that we are all 85% water.
 
IMO Today I realized throughout this ordeal I gave Chad and Lori and Alex waaaayyyy more intellectual credit than I should have. Thankfully they were definitely not criminal masterminds and for all the families affected I am glad they were really complete morons.
MOO if the results for Tammy come back inconclusive I can only imagine the text exchanges between Chad and Lori. “Today is the day! Xoxo”
Also will be interesting when looking through Chads documents when he started drafting Tammy’s obituary.
Bing bing bing! That's how I feel. I thought the kids were safe and Lori was just being defiant. But that was based largely on how reasonably intelligent people would behave. They did not try to hide. They lived openly in Rexburg then Hawaii for months even while under investigation. I would have been completely freaked out if I had killed someone or buried a body on my property because I would know the jig is up. My entire life would be about hiding and creating a new identity. But these two seem to have been too dumb to understand that they would eventually get caught.
 
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