Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #10

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Is there a specific time she is to produce the kids? Is it a court appointment or just by the end of the day?

There is no court appointment. She has until 5 PM Rexburg time to physically produce the kids at either the Rexburg Police Department or the Idaho Dept of Health and Welfare in Rexburg. She could have produced them sooner than today if she wanted to (and if they are alive)-- the order gave her 5 days.
 
I find it hard to believe contempt of court penalties are not covered in Idaho statutes for child protection cases. Sounds fishy. Why the secrecy?
I am having trouble getting my reply in the above post removed/corrected. But according to Idaho statutes, if the contempt of which the defendant be adjudged guilty be a disobedience of an order of support of minor children, they may be imprisoned up to 30 days.
 
There is no court appointment. She has until 5 PM Rexburg time to physically produce the kids at either the Rexburg Police Department or the Idaho Dept of Health and Welfare in Rexburg. She could have produced them sooner than today if she wanted to (and if they are alive)-- the order gave her 5 days.
Thank you, Gardener!
 
Does anyone know if the Rexburg Prosecutor is still in Hawaii? I wonder if they expect that she will not show up and they have other charges ready to go after 5:00 pm mst? I would imagine if they are planning something along those lines, they will want to charge her asap in order to prevent CD and LVD from going on the run again.
 
I am still just so confused as to how they can run off to Hawaii without kids, not tell anyone where their kids are, and not be arrested on suspicion of foul play.

I get that US law is different as regards primacy of the child etc - but can criminal law be so different as regards probable cause?

This seems to open the possibility to have a Maddie style mystery where the parents say nothing?


There is no probable cause because no crime has been committed... at least, there is no evidence that a crime has been committed according to the law. There is no evidence that the children have been harmed. It is not against the law for me as a parent, for example, to not tell someone else where my children are if asked. Without the children or (sad to say it) a body or bodies, there is no evidence of foul play. Mom hasn't even made threat of harming her children that we are aware of in MSM.
 
ONE QUESTION -If the kids are deceased, God forbid but let’s be logical. Where would their bodies be? Are there massive forests or lakes in ID? Where would a petite little woman like Lori hide that and if she had the help from Alex, why would he harm her children when he knows they have never harmed Lori. Would bodies be in AZ or ID?

Yes there are. There are lots of national forests. National forests generally don't have fences. (They aren't national parks) There are no admission fees or guards etc.
 
January 30,2020
Garna Mejia KSL (@GarnaMejiaKSL) | Twitter


Video in link

Chilly morning in #Rexburg... We are in place waiting for updates and any sign of #LoriVallow & #ChadDaybell to follow the court order and bring missing #JJVallow and #TyleeRyan back to #Idaho. Their deadline is today.
@KSL5TV



MOO Today is the day of a bluff being called. Madison/Fremont Counties are in a spotlight on this whole case and flew people to Hawaii as an optic to be taken seriously. The kids will be shown or we will see Lori in the back of a police car at 5:01 Mountain Time. They will bring her back on a technicality if they need but I dont think this jurisdiction will be made fools of because these 2 see themselves above the law and Prophetess and Prophet to lead into the 2nd coming. MOO
 
I have been following this case since the day Charles' divorce petition was released and JUST NOW completely caught up on all the WS threads. Literally read every single post in every thread. I think it's fitting that today is the day I caught up, as it may prove to be a very important day in the case. I am hoping against hope for a miracle and that the children are presented today. I know it's incredibly unlikely, but it would make me SO SO happy. This case has really shaken my faith in the justice system and law enforcement in this country. The fact that it is conceivably so easy for a parent to kill their child/children and get away with it is mind-boggling.
 
This aspect of the case is completely bizarre!

It seems crazy that everyone around this couple are disappearing or dying one after the other and now here we are in late January and they are still free?

I mean who is laughing after their husband has been shot dead and has a pool party that afternoon?
I am still just so confused as to how they can run off to Hawaii without kids, not tell anyone where their kids are, and not be arrested on suspicion of foul play.

I get that US law is different as regards primacy of the child etc
- but can criminal law be so different as regards probable cause?

This seems to open the possibility to have a Maddie style mystery where the parents say nothing?

I'm in the US (Texas) This seems strange to me. The main difference from most of these cases is that she has gone to Hawaii. Usually these types hang around town and somehow they say/do something stupid. This reminds me of case of Elizabeth Johnson, she claimed she threw her baby in the trash, but it happened while she was traveling between states. She was arrested on custodial interference. They never found her baby, so she was never charged with murder.
 
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Absolutely. I just can't wrap my mind around why they haven't been taken in for questioning at this point. Even in HI, they serve a warrant, confiscate their car and still don't take them for questioning? So strange...

They have the right to remain silent. Police in the US can't just take someone in "for questioning". They can ask the person if they will (voluntarily) come to the police station and discuss but the person has the right to refuse in most cases. Police can only compel them to go to the station if they are placing them under arrest or have some court order to detain them. They were briefly detained in the back of separate police cars while the warrants were served and evidence collected but they were not placed under arrest. They could have freely answered some questions while detained in the back of the police cars but I doubt they said much. People who know their rights know to ask "Am I under arrest?" and "Am I being detained or am I free to go?" And Chad and Lori seem to know to remain silent and not say anything. It's super frustrating, I know, but they are following the law.

MOO.
 
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How I think this case will eventually resolve (sorta): Eventually the honeymoon will be over. Chad knows something...he will start talking...eventually...
Who knows how long it take? Of course, Chad could vaporize, but with the spotlight on Lori, I think he has a chance of getting out of this intact....MOO

ETA: I'm not much of an optimist in real life about anything, but am always thinking about what could go wrong.
 
That's just it though. If she's completely innocent of any wrongdoing, the children are safely hidden away for whatever reason, and this whole drama does turn out to be over some bizzare custody battle, then not showing up doesn't help her in any way (at least that I can see). She has more to lose by not showing up because then she'd risk legally losing the kids (if they're ever found), lose the custody dispute ( that was never there to begin with, according to LE), get a criminal record, risk getting thrown in jail, lose her money in costly legal battles, lose the support of family, friends, and others who question her actions and behavior, and who knows what other unforseen consequences.

People keep throwing out this supposed custody dispute as the reason for hiding the kids (assuming they are still alive and hidden somewhere). But yet that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me. Here are a few reasons why:

  1. LE says there's no custody dispute. Which means either Lori's defenders are simply mistaken, or LE is lying. Without knowing anything else I would lean towards believing LE over the supporters because LE has greater access to the facts in the case, whereas the supporters only have conjecture at this point. And what I mean by that is I've never heard Lori or anyone else directly tied to the case even mention a custody battle - that argument has only ever come from people who are not personally involved, and with no supporting evidence, ergo it's pure speculation at this point.
  2. Who would even be able to bring forth a valid and legal custody claim? Not Tylee's father, he's dead. Not JJ's adoptive father, he's dead too. Not JJ's biological parents - they ceded custody from the very beginning and wouldn't likely have any standing still. Who does that leave? Grandparents? Lori's parents aren't likely to do that, and besides grandparents generally don't have much legal standing to force a custody battle. Maybe JJ's grandparents? Well, they have shown an interest in the children's safety and well-being, but again grandparents don't have many legal rights in custody disputes. Besides that though, from all appearances they have always looked on Lori with love and great respect as a good mother and caretaker of the kids, and the wife of Charles. It wasn't until after this whole mess broke out that their views and opinions have begun to change a little, but even here they haven't been exactly aggressive or hostile towards her like one would expect considering the circumstances, but genuinely compassionate and trying to make sense of everything in as loving a way as I've ever seen. Who else would have a legal case to fight for custody of the kids? The government maybe? But why would they get involved? They may potentially get involved now with everything that's been happening in the past few months, but there was absolutely no indication of anything like that from before the kids were disappeared.
  3. Even if there was some party involved in a custody dispute, Lori, being the mother and legal guardian of the children, had the backing and full weight of the law on her side. Even if JJ's grandparents were fighting for custody, threatening to take the kids away, or harassing Lori by constantly sending the police to investigate and perform welfare checks (none of which appears to have ever happened), Lori has full rights and could have easily handled the situation legally. As an example, I have had extended family involved in divorces and ugly legal battles for custody of the children where one party or another will try and use the police as a weapon by constantly calling for welfare checks. This almost always and invariably backfires on the person as charges of harassment and/or custodial interference can be filed against them. The one party simply needs to show the child/children to the police to show that they're ok and doing well and then file a complaint against the other party for harassment or custodial interference (assuming they've been doing it habitually and as a means of disrupting legal parent time). I just don't see how hiding the kids away if there truly is a custody dispute is a good idea in any way shape or form. It would most likely backfire on the parent or guardian.
  4. Even if they were hidden away safely because of a custody issue, what kind of parent would tell others that their children are dead or simply never existed, like Lori and Chad apparently are on record as having said? That one's a real head scratcher and doesn't look good no matter how you look at it. Better to simply tell the truth and say that they're in hiding because of a nasty custody dispute. You'd at least get a lot more compassion and sympathy, and maybe people even willing to help you out and take care of the kids if they're perceived to be in danger from a former spouse' family. All moo.
  5. If a custody dispute is truly going on, who in their right mind abandons their children into the care of another for an extended period of time and goes on vacation to a tropical island paradise with no apparent concern or contact with the children? I mean seriously! Like I said earlier, there's been a few custody disputes among my relations, and in every single instance the parent has kept the children as close as possible to themselves at all times, even sometimes at the risk of doing something stupid and ill advised (such as taking the children across state lines without informing the other party in a joint custody case, potentially bringing kidnapping charges against the offending party). If Lori is hiding the children with family, friends, or others, she's sure putting a whole lot of trust in them that they won't turn the kids over to the government, especially with the risk the new guardians would be facing in a missing and endangered children case. I just don't see it happening. Besides that, if they were alive and well, under the care of others, you'd think Lori (assuming she's like any other loving parent) would want to stay in touch with them and make sure they were ok. If such were happening then I'm sure LE would have been able to pick up on that and track them down by now. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to get a search warrant for the phone records of the POI and find out who they've been calling regularly and locate the children from that. Which obviously hasn't happened yet.
A custody battle simply doesn't make any kind of reasonable sense as to why the children might be hidden away. Unfortunately there's a whole lot of other scenarios that do make sense as to why Lori and Chad might want the children disappeared. And it doesn't end well for anyone, especially the children. Moo, sadly. :(

The problem is that we're not working with a binary custody or no custody issue deal, life is messy. Its true that no formal paperwork has been filed in any court at this time requesting custody be transferred from Lori. Now lets read between the lines. KW initiated a welfare check because the woman she thinks caused her brothers death, the woman her brother painted as mentally unstable, now wont let her see her grandchild. No one would want their grandchild being raised by a crazy murderer(who has already killed one member of your family), so while there's no formal custody dispute, there is a custody dispute. Even if KW wanted to, she couldnt just file for custody, she might know Lori is bad news, but the courts need more proof. The first step to getting JJ away from what she saw as a threat was to initiate the welfare check, hoping that if Lori was acting strange (like being her bubbly smiley self after a murder in her house) that would go on formal record and would be admissible proof to help Kay get JJ away from Lori.

Lori is not new to custody disputes, she's not even new to this tactic; put the kids out of reach from whoever wants them and wait the system out. She did it with JR and Tylee. Her dad has legal training, and she likely knows that custody matters arent the courts highest priority. From the court records people have found, we know she's hidden Tylee from JR so much that she has to give back the child support he paid because he wasn't getting his legally allotted time with Tylee. She knows that anyone trying to get kids away from their mother is fighting an uphill battle and its best to let the other party tire themselves out while you just go on with your life.

I think she saw several things that made her worried KW's grab for JJ might have some teeth. Her extended absence from JJ for months, Charles formally requesting a mental hold on her, Charles getting murdered in her house, after filing paperwork with his lawyers saying Lori wanted him dead, perhaps even the crazy ranting transcended being recording Kay said Charles had. For whatever reason Im guessing she thought distance wasnt good enough, she'd have to hide the kids until everything blew over. I dont think she had any idea that it would turn into national news. Probably just thought Kay would hound the court system for years and she'd just keep conveniently missing the welfare checks that might move the case along.

The kids are either hidden or dead, and we're all rooting for the former. Women who kill their kids generally are mentally unstable to the point they cant hide it, in some sort of financial distress that would make them think they have no way to care for the kids, under the impression that the kids life will be so bad they'll be better off dead, or newly saddled with the responsibilities of childcare and upset their carefree life has changed. Lori doesn't fit any of those. Her actions and demeanor suggest nothing is bothering her, so she's either in the pantheon of the sickest of sickos, or she knows the kids are OK.
 
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