Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #12

[Avocado49]

I’m thinking the warrant for the LIFE school was for JJ’s records, particularly the ones from back when Lori started to go crazy and Charles was worried she was going to be able to randomly pick JJ up from school and take off with him (per one of Kay’s early interviews).

Charles stayed in AZ at first (while Lori was “missing” with Tylee in HI) and eventually moved to TX with JJ to be near his family there so he could travel for work and JJ would be cared for (again per KVW).

This is apparently the same school where Lori left her clutch in the car and Charles grabbed it, to (MOO) try to get Lori to go to LE so the protective mental health order could be served on her. It didn’t work, sadly.
(I’d love if one our reporters could get ahold of Lori’s supposed mental health evaluation from that day.)

So these LiFE school folks knew about the family drama from at least the time that Lori took off, just about a year ago (it’s blowing my mind all that happened with this case in 2019, I keep imagining it all taking place long ago somehow, but in reality it’s all fairly recent!).

I don’t think that the timing of Lori taking JJ to school on July 11th is really relevant. She took him to school, why wouldn’t she have? She didn’t want to deal with him and that was waiting childcare. We know when she came back to the crime scene with Tylee, and the timing fits.
Then she was down at the station for questioning and JJ was at school.

re: lying to JJ about it all - Lori even told the officer (at the end of her interview) that she wasn’t going to tell JJ the truth about Charles being dead (she said he “wouldn’t understand” and CV was traveling all the time for work anyway). I’m pretty sure this is why LE recommended Lori talk to victim services - like an actual counselor to advise her on how to tell the kids. I guess Lori didn’t take any of their advice. This is such bull - one of Lori’s worst parenting moments (that we know about) for sure IMO.
of course JJ would understand. I wonder if he ever found out. He needs to grieve.

Now I think we know why Lori wouldn’t let JJ attend the memorial services for Charles in Louisiana, because she hadn’t even told him CV was dead! Evil selfish stuff. especially in this day and age when we all know how important it is to tell kids the truth about these kinds of things so they can process and heal and grieve with family.

(a personal aside - my father was 10 years old when his mother died suddenly of a brain aneurysm while she was on vacation - this was in 1947, and my dad was told that his mother was on a long trip, and wasn’t coming back - which of course was so incredibly worse because my dad waited for his mother to come back his whole life, even after he eventually was told she died by a family friend as a teen, he could never shake that she had abandoned him - he was so angry with his father, but I think that kind of thing was more common back then. I wish my dad would have been told the truth and been able to grieve his mother’s death properly. When my dad was dying of cancer, 20 years ago, he called out to his mommy, heartbreakingly as he took his last breaths.)


So, where was Alex while Lori and Tylee were missing in HI in early 2019? We know they went to stay with Alex at some point (argument in the street), but then Alex’s neighbors reported that he was gone for an extended period (when they loaded up his garage and then he left it open for 4 weeks) - did he maybe join Lori and Tylee in HI? Perhaps he met Lori’s friend his future wife Z there? Anyway, the October storage unit thing wasn’t the first time in 2019 that Lori and Alex stored a bunch of stuff somewhere so LV could go off to HI.

I have so many more thoughts but I must sleep, have been thinking about the case and you all throughout my days. It’s all so gruesome and sad, but it’s nice at least being here for it together.

still praying those kids are alive and found soon, and that justice will be served for Charles and Tammy and all of the other innocent family members who have been harmed. also praying for some excellent trauma-informed counseling for them all. I would contribute to a fundraiser for that for sure.

 

[IronOrchid]

I’m thinking the warrant for the LIFE school was for JJ’s records, particularly the ones from back when Lori started to go crazy and Charles was worried she was going to be able to randomly pick JJ up from school and take off with him (per one of Kay’s early interviews).

Charles stayed in AZ at first (while Lori was “missing” with Tylee in HI) and eventually moved to TX with JJ to be near his family there so he could travel for work and JJ would be cared for (again per KVW).

This is apparently the same school where Lori left her clutch in the car and Charles grabbed it, to (MOO) try to get Lori to go to LE so the protective mental health order could be served on her. It didn’t work, sadly.
(I’d love if one our reporters could get ahold of Lori’s supposed mental health evaluation from that day.)

So these LiFE school folks knew about the family drama from at least the time that Lori took off, just about a year ago (it’s blowing my mind all that happened with this case in 2019, I keep imagining it all taking place long ago somehow, but in reality it’s all fairly recent!).

I don’t think that the timing of Lori taking JJ to school on July 11th is really relevant. She took him to school, why wouldn’t she have? She didn’t want to deal with him and that was waiting childcare. We know when she came back to the crime scene with Tylee, and the timing fits.
Then she down at the station for questioning and JJ was at school.

re: lying to JJ about it all - Lori even told the officer (at the end of her interview) that was wasn’t going to tell JJ the truth about Charles being dead (she said he wouldn’t understand and CV was traveling all the time for work anyway). I’m pretty sure this is why LE recommended Lori talk to victim services - an actual counselor yo advise her on how to tell the kids. I guess Lori didn’t take any of their advice. This is such ******** - one of Lori’s worst parenting moments (that we know about) for sure IMO.
of course JJ would understand. I wonder if he ever found out. He needs to grieve.
Now I think we know why Lori wouldn’t let JJ attend the memorial services for Charles in Louisiana, because she hadn’t told him CV was dead! Evil selfish ********, especially in this day and age when we all know how important it is to tell kids the truth about these kinds of things so they can process and heal.

(a personal aside - my father was 10 years old when his mother died suddenly of a brain aneurysm while she was on vacation - this was in 1947, and my dad was told that his mother was on a long trip, and wasn’t coming back - which of course was so incredibly worse because my dad waited for his mother to come back whole life, even after he eventually was told she died by a family friend as a teen, he could never shake that she had abandoned him - he was so angry with his father, but I think that kind of thing was more common back then. I wish my dad would have been told the truth and been able to grieve his mother’s death properly. When my dad was dying of cancer, 20 years ago, he called out to his mommy, heartbreakingly as he took his last breaths.)


So, where was Alex while Lori and Tylee were missing in HI in early 2019? We know they went to stay with Alex at some point (argument in the street), but then Alex’s neighbors reported that he was gone for an extensive period (when they loaded up his garage and then left it open for 4 weeks) - did he maybe join Lori and Tylee in HI? Perhaps he met Lori’s friend his future wife Z there? Anyway, the October storage unit thing wasn’t the first time in 2019 that Lori and Alex stored a bunch of stuff somewhere so LV could go off to HI.

I have so many more thoughts but I must sleep, have been thinking about the case and you all throughout my days.

still praying those kids are alive and found soon, and that justice will be served for Charles and Tammy and all of the other innocent family members who have been harmed. also praying for excellent trauma-informed counseling for them all. I would contribute to a fundraiser for that for sure.

You make a really astute observation here about Alex.

 

[Avocado49]

And also, why take anyone's phones? Besides being in contempt of court in Idaho, technically there hasn't been any crimes committed that have warranted the Hawaii PD making an arrest. Having missing children isn't a crime, suspicious as hell as it may be. I don't like it either, but...

the phone that is being discussed is from the shooting in July.
The victim Charles had his phone taken by Lori which started the argument.

 

[tresir2012]

Febuary 5, 2020
Garna Mejia KSL on Twitter
Coming up at 6, Court Docs in #LoriVallow & #CharlesVallow divorce matters show concerns about Lori’s erratic behavior, beliefs, and spending. We’ve also confirmed Charles had a $1M life insurance policy. Also getting info on #TammyDaybell’s policy. #TyleeRyan #JJVallow
@KSL5TV

So the $2m is not correct unless there is double indemnity if death is other than natural causes. Which is sometimes the case with life policies.

 

[Tortoise]

Indeed

Didn't this happen in the McStay case? The contents of the storage unit were ultimately lost to the investigation?

Yes, criminal minds think alike! Just let someone else dispose of what you want rid of. If police hadn't had the search warrant and been there I wonder how long items are kept. I also wonder how police became aware she had a unit, because Lori had gone when police searched the house. Perhaps it was a search on her bank account/credit card or she carelessly left paperwork behind. If she defaulted on her credit card it's possible she now has new accounts.

I'm just pondering now over random details with all the new info that's coming out. October puzzles me. The unit taken on the 1st and the bikes moved in on the 28th. That was a month before police came to the house, so was she always going in her plan? That makes for a plan before October 1st. Did she take JJ out of school so that police could not track her down by searching him under the disability funding? Because AZ school didn't know they were in ID and neither did Colby. Then we heard JJ told the neighbor before September 24th that he was going away to his grandmother's.

So much to process!

 

[squareandrabbet]

I'm not sure if I can state this without being verified but I'm a medical biller that specializes in behavioral health and SUD billing/coding. Counselors and other behavioral health providers usually keep their own set of notes that would be separate from standard school records or even standard medical records. Since JJ is autistic I am assuming he was seeing some sort of therapist or counselor through his school.

I'm very familiar with what records can be released under what circumstances. School counselor or any sort of counselor notes would not likely be released to a parent via a standard school records request - those types of records are considered privileged. To release anything involving a counselor's notes or observations to a patient or guardian a separate, specific request needs made and that counselor has to sign off on the release. If there is a search warrant, those records can be released to law enforcement but only if there is a warrant.

Oh, please do get verified, as this is definitely the type of essential useful information we need, IMO.

Agreed - fairly typical

One reason to have it is to pay off homeloans, business loans etc in the event that the primary earner dies early.

Since we were told that Lori could (and did) walk off with any of Charles' money connected with the business that she wanted, because she was a co-owner; doesn't a CV life insurance policy now seem like the obvious way someone/Lori is funding she and Chad's excellent vacation??

 

[IronOrchid]

Yes, criminal minds think alike! Just let someone else dispose of what you want rid of. If police hadn't had the search warrant and been there I wonder how long items are kept. I also wonder how police became aware she had a unit, because Lori had gone when police searched the house. Perhaps it was a search on her bank account/credit card or she carelessly left paperwork behind. If she defaulted on her credit card it's possible she now has new accounts.

I'm just pondering now over random details with all the new info that's coming out. October puzzles me. The unit taken on the 1st and the bikes moved in on the 28th. That was a month before police came to the house, so was she always going in her plan? That makes for a plan before October 1st. Did she take JJ out of school so that police could not track her down by searching him under the disability funding? Because AZ school didn't know they were in ID and neither did Colby. Then we heard JJ told the neighbor before September 24th that he was going away to his grandmother's.

So much to process!

IMO, if Lori wanted to abandon the storage unit, she just would have. But she and Alex visited it multiple times, back and forth. That means she at least cared about what was in there a little. She didn't rent the unit just to abandon things in it, she and Alex and possibly someone else returned and left it multiple times.

Plus, if Lori just wanted to abandon a bunch of kids stuff, she could've. She's a woman of means, so why involve a storage locker? Just call 1 800 got junk.

 

[Avocado49]

Indi, I get what you're saying but... It just doesn't add up. If Tylee was alive, she'd have part of that storage unit too. That unit was visited and trafficked by Lori and her brother, highly. They took out male toys and male stuff. They rented it for a reason, most likely because Lori wanted the boy to have his things but those things had to be kept away from the house, because she reasoned the house would be very heavily searched.

That storage unit wasn't even packed, that storage unit was a hiding place. Lori was hiding a vertains child's toys and bringing them back.

I really don’t understand this train of thought about the storage unit. What are you getting at re: Tylee’s stuff? They had “downsized” earlier in the year when they moved to the rental house in Chandler where Charles was shot. Tylee didn’t seem to have many belongings. She was used to moving often and traveling to HI, so I imagine she’s learned to pack light in general.

Lori wouldn’t want to hide the kids things when law enforcement came, because she wanted LE to think the kids still lived there with them (she said JJ was visiting a relative).

I’m pretty sure, based on Lori and Chad being in HI in early Nov., that they were planning on moving to HI right after TG (after Chad’s family trip and Alex and Melani’s LV weddings) anyway. The search warrant didn’t inspire them to leave town, they were already going.
We know they were planning to move to HI (per landlady Jeani’s MSM story) so why not store some things in ID rather than ship everything to HI?
The storage unit is sad, but again I don’t think the specific contents of the kids’ there are significant re: each of their current well-being.

 

[Tortoise]

IMO, if Lori wanted to abandon the storage unit, she just would have. But she and Alex visited it multiple times, back and forth. That means she at least cared about what was in there a little. She didn't rent the unit just to abandon things in it, she and Alex and possibly someone else returned and left it multiple times.

Plus, if Lori just wanted to abandon a bunch of kids stuff, she could've. She's a woman of means, so why involve a storage locker? Just call 1 800 got junk.

BBM She has though. And it does just contain a bunch of kids things that she obviously doesn't care enough to go online and pay to keep, under her old card or a new card.

She only visited it until she couldn't anymore. It suited her purposes to have a place to hide anything incriminating until she knew she was going. IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Police should be after the accomplice already. It doesn't take two men to move bikes. There is someone else still standing who knows things. Unless it was Chad.

MOO

 

[IronOrchid]

I really don’t understand this train of thought about the storage unit. What are you getting at re: Tylee’s stuff? They had “downsized” earlier in the year when they moved to the rental house in Chandler where Charles was shot. Tylee didn’t seem to have many belongings. She was used to moving often and traveling to HI, so I imagine she’s learned to pack light in general.

Lori wouldn’t want to hide the kids things when law enforcement came, because she wanted LE to think the kids still lived there with them (she said JJ was visiting a relative).

I’m pretty sure, based on Lori and Chad being in HI in early Nov., that they were planning on moving to HI right after TG (after Chad’s family trip and Alex and Melani’s LV weddings) anyway. The search warrant didn’t inspire them to leave town, they were already going.
We know they were planning to move to HI (per landlady Jeani’s MSM story) so why not store some things in ID rather than ship everything to HI?
The storage unit is sad, but again I don’t think the specific contents of the kids’ there are significant re: each of their current well-being.

Im just brainstorming why a storage unit would be used like that. It doesn't make a lot of sense any way you cut it.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Is life insurance a common thing in the US? Like, everyone has it?

Pretty much everybody in my experience (though I grant I mostly lived and worked in Manhattan) gets stuck with life insurance as a part of their job. I've been in jobs where, as a single person whose parents and siblings have no need for my money, I've tried to turn down life insurance to save a few dollars a month, because again, nobody is dependent upon my income and if they need it, they're probably already voluntary beneficiaries I elected on my retirement accounts.

The HR department has absolutely double checked me at every employer I ever worked to, at minimum, make absolutely certain that I know I'm waiving life insurance protections/did not elect to take it. At least one job, the HR person was so worried that I said "no" to a benefit the company 98% pays for, that I peer-pressured myself into signing up for it just because it seemed so inflammatory to her that I did not want it.

I had excellent insurance for my wife and daughter and spent $200 a month. When I quit my job and became an independent contractor, I was offered COBRA and would have to pay $3300 for the same coverage... Per month in 2006! I tried to get insurance while I was self employed and it would have easily been 50-75% of my net income. I went for "emergency coverage" which cost me $500 a month, covered up to $4 million in medical bills, but had a $20,000 deductible. The other issue with that coverage was that it was only good for 6 months and then I needed to change providers. I ended up having to use it for emergency surgery and you can bet your *advertiser censored* that I had to cough up that 20k.

I was made redundant at the end of 2019, in my late 40s, and was shocked at how more expensive things seemed than the last time I was out of work for any length of time (mid 20s).

As a result, I need a lot more health insurance than I used to have; and signed up for my company's COBRA immediately, because of ongoing things (allergies; chiropractor, etc.). It was "worth it", probably, to do so, because I had already met my out-of-network deductible but; hoo doggies.

Once the plan year expired, I had to look for a decent plan on the health care exchange; by which I meant, "spending as little out of pocket as possible" (think they pay everything, after I pay out $2,000).

The "decent plan", is only a $90/month savings over the COBRA and, for the first time, watching $2,500 fly out of my savings at the beginning of every month for apartment maintenance/mortgage/health care, I finally understand the coworkers who used to say to me "I work for the health insurance coverage."

 

[kye0001]

Im just brainstorming why a storage unit would be used like that. It doesn't make a lot of sense any way you cut it.

There’s very little in this case that makes any sense tbh. Certainly not with regards to the behaviour of the two POIs. There’s a lot still under investigation that the police will know and don’t want to become public knowledge.

I suspect the parts being leaked to the press are the bits they want us to know. Maybe parts of the investigation that they want LV, CD and co know they are aware of to rattle them? For example yesterday’s info from the school, the fact that they have JJs school records, he talked with his teachers and the warrant was for a investigation on first degree murder. JMO but non of this will be quick unfortunately, it’s going to be long, drawn out, with a trickle of information. MOO

 

[IronOrchid]

Police should be after the accomplice already. It doesn't take two men to move bikes. There is someone else still standing who knows things. Unless it was Chad.

MOO

Someone else could very well know things, especially if the doomsday cult theory is true. But if there is a cult, it's exceptionally small.

If there is a cult, its probably more like a "family" than a cult. Like the Manson family, etc.

 

[IronOrchid]

There’s very little in this case that makes any sense tbh. Certainly not with regards to the behaviour of the two POIs. There’s a lot still under investigation that the police will know and don’t want to become public knowledge.

I suspect the parts being leaked to the press are the bits they want us to know. Maybe parts of the investigation that they want LV, CD and co know they are aware of to rattle them? For example yesterday’s info from the school, the fact that they have JJs school records, he talked with his teachers and the warrant was for a investigation on first degree murder. JMO but non of this will be quick unfortunately, it’s going to be long, drawn out, with a trickle of information. MOO

That's a good point, the fact JJ was talking to his teachers. But if the kid or kids knew something incriminating about Lori or Chad, I'd expect getting rid of them would be the absolute worst option the guilty parties could have chosen. You stand a pretty good chance of explaining away what a kid says they saw you do. You don't stand a good chance of explaining away your two missing kids.

But Lori's a free woman right now, so what do I know?

 

[Tortoise]

I find this detail about Bailey, JJ's dog, incredibly shocking:-

Cheryl told the news outlet that Charles had bought he and Lori’s adopted son Joshua “JJ” Vallow, who is reportedly autistic, trained service dog. She said that JJ became best friends with Bailey, the labradoodle, and that her sons also loved spending time with the dog and their stepbrother.

She claimed that shortly after Charles died, Lori Vallow tried to sell the dog.

“Three weeks after Charles was killed, Lori put the dog up for sale. She listed it for $2,500, and it was so shocking because Bailey was such an important part of JJ’s life,” Cheryl told East Idaho News.

“Fortunately the trainer saw the listing and told Lori she had to give it back to the rescue group. They were able to take him back and re-home the dog to another special-needs boy.”

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

Golden Doodle, Fully Trained Service Dog, Dogs and Puppies
$ 2,500
Reference Number
RF748730
Title
Golden Doodle, Fully Trained Service Dog
Breed
Golden Doodle
Age
2 Day(s)
Gender
Male
Description
Bailey has such a sweet spirit- he has brought so much love to his home, but his owner recently died and he needs a new home. He is fully trained with certification as a service dog. Up to date on vaccinations. Has been trained with children in the home, non-smoking home. Bailey is sweet and friendly around other dogs. Looking for new owners who will appreciate and love him the way he has been loved! Spent 7,000 on service training, he is a full bred golden doodle, has experience on airplanes, has experience with people with autism.
Posted
Aug 09, 2019
[snipped]

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

BBM

I know she is referring to Charles when she says his owner, but what is so shocking is that Bailey was in service to JJ, not Charles, and she alludes to it being the person Bailey was in service to - JJ - who had died. Charles couldn't have been looking after Bailey while he was staying in hotels and traveling with work. It's utterly heartless.

Oh and who actually spent the money on his training? The trainers words read to me like he was already trained when they got him.

 

[kye0001]

That's a good point, the fact JJ was talking to his teachers. But if the kid or kids knew something incriminating about Lori or Chad, I'd expect getting rid of them would be the absolute worst option the guilty parties could have chosen. You stand a pretty good chance of explaining away what a kid says they saw you do. You don't stand a good chance of explaining away your two missing kids.

But Lori's a free woman right now, so what do I know?

The police have already said that once arrested she will lawyer up and refuse to talk, maybe they feel she’s more use on the outside and may lead them to the children? JMO

I don’t know what’s happened to the kids, I want to believe they’re alive, safe and hidden somewhere but I don’t know. I do think CV and LV will end up in cuffs for something though. They’re taunting the police, ignoring court orders and making a mockery of the justice system. People rarely get away with that. I think/hope they’re just building a strong case. MOO

 

[earthgurl]

Oh, please do get verified, as this is definitely the type of essential useful information we need, IMO

I can't tell if you are joking or not. Lol. I was honestly surprised anything came up that I had occupational knowledge about. Privacy practices involving medical records/counseling records don't usually come up when it comes to crime in my experience, imo.

 

[IronOrchid]

I find this detail about Bailey, JJ's dog, incredibly shocking:-

Cheryl told the news outlet that Charles had bought he and Lori’s adopted son Joshua “JJ” Vallow, who is reportedly autistic, trained service dog. She said that JJ became best friends with Bailey, the labradoodle, and that her sons also loved spending time with the dog and their stepbrother.

She claimed that shortly after Charles died, Lori Vallow tried to sell the dog.

“Three weeks after Charles was killed, Lori put the dog up for sale. She listed it for $2,500, and it was so shocking because Bailey was such an important part of JJ’s life,” Cheryl told East Idaho News.

“Fortunately the trainer saw the listing and told Lori she had to give it back to the rescue group. They were able to take him back and re-home the dog to another special-needs boy.”

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

Golden Doodle, Fully Trained Service Dog, Dogs and Puppies
$ 2,500
Reference Number
RF748730
Title
Golden Doodle, Fully Trained Service Dog
Breed
Golden Doodle
Age
2 Day(s)
Gender
Male
Description
Bailey has such a sweet spirit- he has brought so much love to his home, but his owner recently died and he needs a new home. He is fully trained with certification as a service dog. Up to date on vaccinations. Has been trained with children in the home, non-smoking home. Bailey is sweet and friendly around other dogs. Looking for new owners who will appreciate and love him the way he has been loved! Spent 7,000 on service training, he is a full bred golden doodle, has experience on airplanes, has experience with people with autism.
Posted
Aug 09, 2019
[snipped]

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

BBM

I know she is referring to Charles when she says his owner, but what is so shocking is that Bailey was in service to JJ, not Charles, and she alludes to it being the person Bailey was in service to - JJ - who had died. Charles couldn't have been looking after Bailey while he was staying in hotels and traveling with work. It's utterly heartless.

Oh and who actually spent the money on his training? The trainers words read to me like he was already trained when they got him.

Actually that's a really good observation. What idiot tries to just sell a fully functional, trained service dog, like it's a used car? Most animals like that have contracts that require rehoming be done through the service. In other words, if the animal needs a new home, the owner is legally required to give it back to the original seller and no one else.

I don't think Lori is playing with a full deck, fam.

 

[indicolite22]

I really don’t understand this train of thought about the storage unit. What are you getting at re: Tylee’s stuff? They had “downsized” earlier in the year when they moved to the rental house in Chandler where Charles was shot. Tylee didn’t seem to have many belongings. She was used to moving often and traveling to HI, so I imagine she’s learned to pack light in general.

If what we've been shown is all that was found in the storage unit, apart from the winter boots, ice skates and winter accessories, there are practically no clothes to be seen. We don't know what Lori did with the rest of Tylee's and JJ's belongings, but there are a few possibilites.