Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #9

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It's just a theory. Some people where I live feel that the government is over stepping boundaries by demanding Lori tell the police where the kids are located. They don't think parents should have to respond when the police or some other entity requests to see their children. I don't feel that way, but there is a bit of that sentiment in these parts. I've read a few comments in other forums that lean in that direction as well.

I've heard this attitude from people extremely far away from UT/ID/AZ, so it's not just one region or subculture. I admit this idea puzzles and disturbs me. These folks don't seem to think that children have legal or human rights distinct from and equal to their parents'. But I know it's not an uncommon way of thinking. JMO.
 
I thought we decided long ago that this is not about Mormons. It is about whackos/AVOW types. There could be an otherwise good family who is an AVOW type that is keeping them safe and would not see it as violating their anti-gubmint faith
Right. I don't think of Lori and Chad as being any particular religion. They are in a group(not a religion) that has extreme views, but clearly they aren't living out any type of religious life, or none of this would be going on. Money seems to be important to them, but we don't have any information that they care one bit about religion. I think all of this is about money.
 
Was no one doing a welfare check on Tylee? I'm not sure if Kay mentioned Tylee when she called LE regarding JJ or not, but if they didn't know she was in the mix that way I wonder how they found out and whether they asked and were told he was with JJ at the friend's in AZ. Obviously when this hit the news we knew there were two kids and we didn't know where they were, but I'm wondering what caused LE to find out about and also become concerned regarding Tylee.

The Nov 26 welfare check was only for JJ. It appears that police didn't figure out Tylee was missing until sometime after that welfare check. Here's the first LE press release from Dec 20th for a refresher: Rexburg Police Department

That part of this story has always struck me as both strange and sad. I suspect that Lori has been lying to people about Tylee for a long time-- perhaps fudging the truth on where Tylee was living and what she was doing in life. For example, Kay had been told Tylee graduated from homeschool at 15 and got her GED. But several posted here that there is no state in the US where you can get a GED at age 15. Further, I believe you have to go to school until you are 16 in most states (unless you have special circumstances) and in most states you have to be 18 to take the GED test. Lori easily could have gotten around the school law and allowed Tylee to drop out at 15 by claiming she would homeschool her, then just told family members Tylee was "graduated" from homeschool at age 15 with a GED (but it would be a lie since Tylee couldn't have taken the test that young). I also suspect that Lori may have told people Tylee was "emancipated" because she had graduated already and that may be why Charles Vallow's divorce paperwork claimed all other children involved in the marriage were emancipated. When Lori was MIA in Feb 2019 Kay (and possibly Charles?) assumed that Tylee was staying with other relatives during this time. But we very recently learned that Tylee went to Hawaii with Lori in Feb 2019.

I think Tylee was never really on her own but Lori lead extended family members and close friends to believe that she was independent or living elsewhere. Perhaps Lori also gave Tylee a huge amount of freedom to decide where she was staying from week to week-- Tylee said she drove from Texas to AZ all by herself (at age 16). That made me wonder if Tylee went to visit family in Texas on her own but then came back to live with Lori again. Tylee was initially considering staying in AZ and living with a friend (at age 16) but ultimately decided to move to ID to protect JJ. This is another situation where I believe Lori could have told some people Tyee went back to AZ to live with the friend. No one would wonder about it if they thought she was emancipated and could live wherever she wanted. I believe Tylee made the trip to ID but since the neighbor only saw her once it's possible IMO that Tylee disappeared weeks before JJ did. Bottom line is that with a combination of lies and Tylee seeming autonomous-- no one was really checking on Tylee. And that's really sad.

MOO.
 
Sure, Chad Daybell was married for 30 years. But Charles, Lori's former (now dead husband) suspected Lori was cheating on him with Chad in recent years. Chad also claimed he had visions and used those visions to get his family members to do what he wanted, as far as I am concerned. He wrote a bunch of books with doomsday scenarios. Apparently, after she started reading those books, Lori became obsessed with the end of the world. And a few weeks after his wife of 30 years died (even if we were to believe Tammy died of natural causes), he is already remarried to Lori. And Chad knew Lori for at least some time. I fail to see how he wouldn't have known she had minor children. So didn't question where the children were when they got married?
I think the two of them (Chad and Lori) are two birds of a feather.
 
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In trying to figure out what might've happened to the kids, it makes sense to look at the history, character, and past behavior of the adults. I vacillate back and forth on whether I think CD is a violent criminal or whether he suffers from some mental illness or personality disorder. Narcissistic Personality Disorder (grandiose subtype) maybe? Not sure I agree with all the DSM stuff (it seems to have become an excuse for everything), but some of it certainly fits.

I think CD has a superiority complex, is deluded, and lives in a world of dreams and visions - yet there is nothing in his background to suggest he might be a murderer. And while anger can apparently manifest in NPD if a person is confronted by "unmet expectations" or "perceived slights", I have not read about CD having any anger management issues. In fact, a recent poster (who apparently knew CD well several years ago) referred to him as "living a humble life", not animated, nor high energy", yet "always craving the spotlight and wanting to be an authority figure".

CD seems intelligent, and was certainly persuasive (he managed to convince people to follow him despite what some would say were nonsensical and irrational claims). I think you could almost describe his adult life as a narcissistic child-like attempt to escape the world in which he found himself - an attempt to create a make-believe world in which he played an outsized role. Grandiosity and narcissism? Sure. But murder?

He and TD had been married for what, 30 years? I think his family and friends would've seen some dramatic change in his personality if he'd suddenly gone off the deep end. And I think his family (both sides) would've been raising hell back in November if they truly thought he'd murdered TD.

CD seemed to be a straight arrow. He was a Boy Scout, and a scout leader. He was a leader in the church. From all appearances, a good husband and a good father. He was admired. AFAIK, TD wasn't threatening divorce. And she wasn't the one who reportedly wanted to stop publishing.

It's hard to imagine anything happening to CD that would've been so extreme as to prompt him to murder his wife (and imo it would've had to have been something bigger than a mid-life crisis, bigger than an insurance payout, and bigger than a 46 yo blond). It just doesn't fit. No matter how I look at it, it unexplainable. But the whole case has been unexplainable from the start.

Not only would you have to be deluded and living in a fantasy world to murder your wife (after supposedly recently upping her insurance policy just months before?), then marry another woman 2 weeks later, and then disappear into the wind (all while thinking nobody would ever be suspicious?) - you'd have to be flat out stupid. I just don't buy the "love blinds" thing. Maybe Lori did just inherit 2m (does anybody know? - they definitely don't seem strapped for $ in HI..). But I still don't see it. Too easy to get caught doing what is stated above. Can you say: "death penalty"?

I acknowledge though that one of the characteristics of "oblivious narcissism" is "diminished awareness" (of self and/or reality?) - and that this can apparently have an "impact on relationships". Maybe CD's personality disorder blinded him sufficiently. But masterminding the whole thing would've been in total contradiction to his life.

So, maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hard time seeing CD as a cold-blooded killer. And even if he did murder his wife (either to be with Lori, or to collect big bucks or to fulfill some crazy religious/cult belief about the afterlife), it's hard for me to believe he would have harmed those kids - or married Lori if he knew that a violent crime had been perpetrated against them (in fact, from the posts I've read, he may not have even known she had kids).

Because of this take on CD, I am starting to think that the maybe the kids are alive someplace in ID or UT or AZ. If the kids were killed, I don't think CD had anything to do with it. If the kids were killed, imo there's only two people in this whole stranger-than-fiction story who could ultimately be responsible: Lori and AC.

Imo, Lori has been revealed to be a master manipulator. She's the one who: benefitted from the deaths of former spouses, was suspected of being mentally ill, lied to police about the children's whereabouts. lied to police about Tylee being dead a year before her father died, said she didn't want her own children, and threatened to kill someone. She's also would benefit from the children's disappearance, and (after TD's death) would benefit by marrying CD.

All that said, you gotta be pretty cold to personally kill your own kids. Though it's happened before, I don't think many moms fit that description. But AC.. AC WAS a violent criminal. He had possibly acted as Lori's muscle (and possibly her hit man) before. Both AC and Lori might've had motive to disappear the kids if they thought the kids could reveal (or change their statements about) what happened in the CV shooting back in July. I hope not, but perhaps AC was Lori's hit man with the kids as well.

I'm hoping that the kids are in ID or UT or AZ (perhaps they were dropped off at a supporter's place by AC, Lori, MB - or some combination of those three - during the last week of September or sometime in mid-Oct), and that they will be brought before the court in ID by Lori (or Lori's atty?). But that would solve only one of Lori's problems. AC has no problems as he's dead. I'm not sure yet if CD has any problems or not.
Never underestimate a 46 year old blond.
 
I thought we decided long ago that this is not about Mormons. It is about whackos/AVOW types. There could be an otherwise good family who is an AVOW type that is keeping them safe and would not see it as violating their anti-gubmint faith
Right. But since the person I quoted was specifically naming so-called "Mormons" (even if they are fringey AVOW types) then I was simply pointing out that honest God-fearing "Mormons" should not be backing and supporting Lori and Chad by keeping the kids hidden from LE as that would be breaking the law and therefore against the tenants of our religion. If a member of the Church is found to be breaking the law then they risk facing Church discipline, not to mention legal repurcussions.
 
Yes, I suppose you're right. Certainly JR, CV, AC, BB, Tylee, JJ, KVW (and her husband), possibly several of Lori's former husbands, and many others might agree in this particular case.
I do think Chad and Lori were having a long term affair and were tired of not being married and wanted to move things along. I think they wanted a fantasy life in Hawaii, and they are now realizing that will never happen. They will be famous forever, not in the way either of them hoped.
 
It's just a theory. Some people where I live feel that the government is over stepping boundaries by demanding Lori tell the police where the kids are located. They don't think parents should have to respond when the police or some other entity requests to see their children. I don't feel that way, but there is a bit of that sentiment in these parts. I've read a few comments in other forums that lean in that direction as well.
Yeah, well the way I see it, any time parents go around telling friends and family their kids died a year or two ago, "but I'm over it, thank you", nah, they need to be fully rousted.
 
January 28,2020

Nate Eaton - Reporter


Nate Eaton - Reporter
1 hr ·
Last night we received a solid tip that Chad and Lori Daybell had left the Kauai Beach Resort and checked into another hotel on the island with several suitcases. Their reservation was for one night. I had to catch a flight back to Idaho but some of our colleagues went to the resort. I just got this message from them:

—We got a short clip of Chad and Lori walking to the parking lot with a couple of day bags (no luggage) like they were going to the beach for the day. They spun around though and went back into the hotel lobby when they saw us. We stuck around until after checkout and they never re-emerged.—

Lori has two days to comply with the court order and have J.J. and Tylee in Rexburg. We’ll see if she shows up at this airport and returns to Idaho.




131131

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Edit Sorry if this is a double post
Great update! Thanks!
 
Has this been posted already?
Parents of missing Rexburg children check out of Hawaii resort

Staff members at the Kauai Marriot Resort tell KTVB that Lorie Vallow and Chad Daybell were in fact at the resort but checked out on Tuesday afternoon.

However, Vallow and Daybell could still be at the resort because they were talking about going to the pool and beach area.​

January 28,2020

Nate Eaton - Reporter


Nate Eaton - Reporter
1 hr ·
Last night we received a solid tip that Chad and Lori Daybell had left the Kauai Beach Resort and checked into another hotel on the island with several suitcases. Their reservation was for one night. I had to catch a flight back to Idaho but some of our colleagues went to the resort. I just got this message from them:

—We got a short clip of Chad and Lori walking to the parking lot with a couple of day bags (no luggage) like they were going to the beach for the day. They spun around though and went back into the hotel lobby when they saw us. We stuck around until after checkout and they never re-emerged.—

Lori has two days to comply with the court order and have J.J. and Tylee in Rexburg. We’ll see if she shows up at this airport and returns to Idaho.




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Edit Sorry if this is a double post

Putting these two stories together, here is a rough draft of what I'll be adding to the timeline (subject to change if we get more details):

27 Jan 2020 – Lori and Chad left the Kauai Beach Resort and checked into Kauai Marriot Resort with several suitcases. Staff members at the Marriot confirmed Lori and Chad stayed there for one night on Jan 27 (KTVB, East Idaho News).

28 Jan 2020, afternoon – Staff members at the Kauai Marriot Resort say Lori and Chad checked out after staying only one night. However, Lori and Chad could still be at the resort because they were talking about going to the pool and beach area. East Idaho News got a short clip of Chad and Lori walking to the parking lot with day bags (no luggage) like they were going to the beach. However, they went back into the lobby when they saw the news crew and did not re-emerge (KTVB, East Idaho News).
 
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January 28,2020
Post Register Idaho Falls Idaho


What could happen Thursday in the Vallow case?

What could happen Thursday in the Vallow case?
  • By SALLY KRUTZIG skrutzig postregister.com
  • 1 hr ago
  • 0
5e1e468a2a140.image.jpg

Anyone with information on the whereabouts of Joshua J.J. Vallow or his sister Tylee Ryan is asked to call the Rexburg Police Department at 208-359-3000 or 1-800-843-5678 (1-800-THE-LOST).



Two months ago, police conducted a welfare check on 7-year-old J.J. Vallow whose grandparents had been trying unsuccessfully to reach him for weeks.

J.J.’s mother Lori Vallow, and her new husband, Chad Daybell, lied to police, telling them that J.J. and his 17-year-old sister Tylee Ryan were with relatives in Arizona. But when police checked that story and learned it was a lie, they went back to Vallow’s townhome in Rexburg to follow up.

No one was home. Vallow and Daybell had fled the city. That Nov. 26 welfare check was the last the public saw of the couple until this past weekend. Neither Tylee nor J.J. has been seen in public since September.


On Saturday, law enforcement in Princeville, Hawaii, served Vallow with a court order demanding that she “physically produce Tylee and J.J. to the Idaho Department of Welfare in Rexburg, Idaho, or to the Rexburg Police within five days of being served with the order.”

Those five days are up on Thursday. Here are three different ways in which the situation could play out in the legal system.

Scenario 1: Lori Vallow remains in Hawaii and ignores the court orderAccording to Rexburg Police, failure to comply with this order may subject Vallow to civil or criminal contempt of court. If Vallow is found in contempt, it will be left up to a judge to determine what penalty to impose on her. The judge’s decision could include extraditing Vallow from Hawaii to Rexburg.

upload_2020-1-28_20-14-19.png
Lori Vallow

upload_2020-1-28_20-14-19.png
Chad Daybell

Samuel Newton, assistant professor of law at the University of Idaho, speculated whether a judge would find extradition worth it. In Idaho, contempt of court is a misdemeanor. Per Idaho law, a misdemeanor for contempt carries a penalty of an up to $5,000 fine, a maximum of five days in jail, or both. Newton wondered whether it would be worth spending the money to extradite Vallow when she may simply choose to receive the relatively minor penalty and return to Hawaii or elsewhere afterward.

Barbara Babb, associate professor of law at the University of Baltimore and prominent American family law scholar, thought the court may still choose to pursue contempt charges that involve law enforcement extraditing Vallow and forcing her to appear before the Madison County court.

“It depends on how badly Idaho wants to find the kids. … It sounds like it’s a famous case in Idaho, so they might spend the funds to do that. (Extradition) is their best hope to try to find the kids and figure out what happened to them,” Babb said.

Once Vallow is before the court, Babb noted, the court can issue further orders in addition to the child protective action. Further orders could involve incarcerating Vallow, possibly until she agrees to cooperate in finding the children.

Scenario 2: Lori Vallow shows up to court but without the children{div class=”OutlineElement Ltr BCX0 SCXW257309820”}{p class=”Paragraph SCXW257309820 BCX0” lang=”EN-US” xml:lang=”EN-US”}The court could then find Vallow in contempt of court. She could choose to either serve the contempt penalty or cooperate with the courts to produce the children. Should she fulfill the penalty rather than show the children, the criminal justice system would need to then bring new charges against her in order to take further action, said Babb. If further charges are brought against Vallow, she may be incarcerated at that time.{/div}

Due to the many deaths surrounding Vallow , if the children are never produced, many have suggested the charge could ultimately be murder. Babb noted that there have been instances of murder charges being brought without a body.


Vallow’s former husband Charles was killed in July in Arizona during an argument with her brother Alex Cox. Cox died in December of unknown causes. And Daybell’s former wife Tammy died at her Salem home in October in what police have described as suspicious circumstances. Autopsies are pending on both Cox and Tammy Daybell.

Scenario 3: Lori Vallow shows up to court with the childrenThere is always the chance Vallow will physically produce J.J. and Tylee to the Madison County court in Rexburg on Thursday. At that point, provided the children are proven to be safe and healthy, all investigation into J.J. and Tylee would most likely cease, Babb said. Obstruction of justice or other charges would be unlikely.

“The court has no jurisdiction regarding children unless they have been abused or neglected,” Babb said.

Some have speculated that Vallow is hiding the children due to custody issues involving J.J.

“People do crazy things around families and it’s not out of the realm of possibility. (Vallow) may be afraid she is going to lose custody, or she may not want the grandparents involved in the children’s lives,” Babb said.

In that scenario, though the investigation into Vallow or Chad Daybell regarding Tylee and J.J.’s disappearance would most likely be dropped, later charges could still come out of autopsy results regarding Charles Vallow (deceased husband of Lori), Tammy Daybell (deceased wife of Chad), and Alex Cox (deceased brother of Lori) if foul play is confirmed.

@Gardener1850
 
I think the Woodcocks' welfare inquiry into JJ may have started with Child Protective Services (or whatever it's called in Idaho--at the same agency where Lori is being ordered to produce the children), and then moved to police once Tammy's death investigation opened and the overlapping pieces came together for LE. I think LE questioned neighbors, learned Chad & Lori's movements, and maybe that Chad had the Thanksgiving vacation planned and might be there on that day packing. Similar to how they knew Lori and Chad were on the move this Sunday.

The pack-up of the units wasn't spurred by the police check, I don't think. It just coincided with it, because they were traveling for Thanksgiving and planning to move to Hawaii permanently. Police may have even *known* they would arrive to three empty units. Again, getting warrants for three separate locations takes time. The ping may have played a role--given them cause in that moment, but the more I've thought about this, the more I've realized that it's been a much longer process.

The flaw in my explanation is the length of time to get Tammy's autopsy, so maybe I'm wrong on all this.

Whatever the case, I'm hoping the kids are safe and alive. I think they've been with Lori's family this whole time. You don't see MB or any of Lori's siblings, or her parents freaking out about missing their missing grandkids/niece & nephew/cousins.

Meanwhile, Lori is missing all of her own baby grandchild's life. She's been moving around like crazy through all of 2019 until now.

MOO MOO MOO

I don't think Lori is too much into being a grandmother. (Or mother.) MOO.
 
Putting these two stories together, here is a rough draft of what I'll be adding to the timeline (subject to change if we get more details):

27 Jan 2020 – Lori and Chad left the Kauai Beach Resort and checked into Kauai Marriot Resort with several suitcases. Staff members at the Marriot confirmed Lori and Chad stayed there for one night on Jan 27 (KTVB, East Idaho News).

28 Jan 2020, afternoon – Staff members at the Kauai Marriot Resort say Lori and Chad checked out after staying only one night. However, Lori and Chad could still be at the resort because they were talking about going to the pool and beach area. East Idaho News got a short clip of Chad and Lori walking to the parking lot with day bags (no luggage) like they were going to the beach. However, they went back into the lobby when they saw the news crew and did not re-emerge (KTVB, East Idaho News).

(bolded italics by me)

Methinks they're discovering that being (in)famous isn't all it's cracked up to be. ;)

I give them credit for being slippery, though! Moving around between lodgings so frequently over 3 days takes some coordination.

Thanks for the seemingly nonstop timeline updates, @Gardener1850.
 
“About the first week of December, there were some boxes left on their porch, and I believe they were from Idaho,” Latham recalls. “I called the Realtor that had the listing, and he told me to put them inside. A few days after that, I saw them pull up and I went over and introduced myself. Their names were Chad and Lori. ...”

"The unit was for sale and had been vacant for some time. The Daybells did not buy the home, Latham said, but signed a contract as long-term tenants. Many homes in the community are used for vacation rentals, but Chad and Lori had more permanent plans. Latham says they bought furniture and had it moved in. ..."

"The real estate agent doesn’t remember the last time he saw Lori, but he had a brief conversation with Chad on Friday, Jan. 24. The Idaho father told Latham he was leaving because the condo was scheduled to be shown to a potential buyer." (All emphasis mine)

Neighbor recalls 'guarded' encounter with Daybells; Kauai prosecutor says missing kids have not been in Hawaii | East Idaho News

So, according to the report Chad and Lori "signed a contract as long-term tenants" (probably late Nov/early Dec some time) and then a month later tells the neighbor they have to vacate "because the condo was scheduled to be shown to a potential buyer."

Yeah, I'm not buying Chad's story. First of all the property had been up for sale and vacant "for some time," which shows not much interest in the market at this time. Secondly, and more importantly, if Chad and Lori had signed a "long-term" contract then that would give them legal grounds to stay on the property for as long as the contract was valid, which surely would have been longer than one month since it was a long term contract. Even if the property owner did have a potential buyer he couldn't have forced them out before the contract was up without facing potential lengthy and expensive legal action from Chad and Lori. Property owners may have certain rights, but so do renters/tenants. And at least in the state I live in, even if a renter is delinquent on their payments or otherwise found in violation of the contract it can take several months for the property owner to have them legally evicted.

My guess is something spooked them and they tried to run. Perhaps they had been served initially on the 24th? Or did they just notice an increased police presence in the area? Or maybe an insider or friend tipped them off that something was coming?
 
“About the first week of December, there were some boxes left on their porch, and I believe they were from Idaho,” Latham recalls. “I called the Realtor that had the listing, and he told me to put them inside. A few days after that, I saw them pull up and I went over and introduced myself. Their names were Chad and Lori. ...”

"The unit was for sale and had been vacant for some time. The Daybells did not buy the home, Latham said, but signed a contract as long-term tenants. Many homes in the community are used for vacation rentals, but Chad and Lori had more permanent plans. Latham says they bought furniture and had it moved in. ..."

"The real estate agent doesn’t remember the last time he saw Lori, but he had a brief conversation with Chad on Friday, Jan. 24. The Idaho father told Latham he was leaving because the condo was scheduled to be shown to a potential buyer." (All emphasis mine)

Neighbor recalls 'guarded' encounter with Daybells; Kauai prosecutor says missing kids have not been in Hawaii | East Idaho News

So, according to the report Chad and Lori "signed a contract as long-term tenants" (probably late Nov/early Dec some time) and then a month later tells the neighbor they have to vacate "because the condo was scheduled to be shown to a potential buyer."

Yeah, I'm not buying Chad's story. First of all the property had been up for sale and vacant "for some time," which shows not much interest in the market at this time. Secondly, and more importantly, if Chad and Lori had signed a "long-term" contract then that would give them legal grounds to stay on the property for as long as the contract was valid, which surely would have been longer than one month since it was a long term contract. Even if the property owner did have a potential buyer he couldn't have forced them out before the contract was up without facing potential lengthy and expensive legal action from Chad and Lori. Property owners may have certain rights, but so do renters/tenants. And at least in the state I live in, even if a renter is delinquent on their payments or otherwise found in violation of the contract it can take several months for the property owner to have them legally evicted.

My guess is something spooked them and they tried to run. Perhaps they had been served initially on the 24th? Or did they just notice an increased police presence in the area? Or maybe an insider or friend tipped them off that something was coming?
I would love to know what was in those boxes.
 
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