Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Did anyone step forward to set the record straight?
If Only Kate Had Bigger *advertiser censored*!!!???
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Did anyone step forward to set the record straight?
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Yes, I do have a fabulous husband and we're both professional people. As for spending too much money on their safety, I'd like to know exactly how much is too much? I don't think one can put a price on the well-being of their children. We've had both live-in and live-out nannies and it worked very well for us. If one wants to find child care, its there. If we wanted to do something and child care wasn't available, guess what? We DID NOT GO. However, we know that the McCanns were offered child care and TURNED IT DOWN.
By the way, what is the "very well educated part of the country"????? And one more thing, if the fathers that you know "often obstruct good childcare decisions" then they must SUCK at being fathers.
teacherbees
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Amen, sister friend! If I had a husband who often obstructed good childcare decisions, he wouldn't be my husband anymore.
But of all the friends I've known during my 25 years as a mom, only ONE made decisions that weren't good for her children. She was a divorced mom who worked as a nurse and had four young kids. While she always had a live-in in the house, some of the sitters she hired left something to be desired. So, my daughter was never allowed to play with her daughter in their house without the mom present and we made it such that the friend came here almost all the time. The mom knew my exact reasons.
That's one friend...and not a husband, by the way. Overall, my "professional" friends have been responsible parents who put their kids' safety over their own personal desires.
I live in San Diego and I guess that would be considered a well-educated part of the country? I'm originally from West Virginia - an area that might NOT be considered well-educated. I have many friends from both those places and lots of cities in between. The natural inclination of people who have children is to care for them on a regular basis. It's not rocket science. You get responsible people to watch your children when you can't be there and if no one is available, you stay home and watch them yourself. That's how it works for me and for my friends, whever they live and whatever their education levels.
It honestly galls me when people try to make it "right" that the McCanns would turn down a babysitter so they could go drink and party all night while their three babies stayed in a strange hotel room, in a strange country all by themselves. That they did this knowing Maddie cried and was scared a few nights before makes it even worse.
I don't have a final judgement on whether the McCanns killed their daughter or not, but no on is going to make me sway from my opionion that they were selfish people and negligent parents who should be prosecuted for child endangerment. Period.
When she found Maddie gone, she left her 2 year old twins alone in the room to alert her party at the Tapas, some 100 yards away. They also ,within the next few weeks, left the twins behind in Portugal, all be it in another apt., while they traveled because Kate "Knew they were in a safe place."
Because they have let the different times go on record, they have not been able to be pinned down to exact times which would be important to an investigation of a missing child. Someone is lying and they are not making the necessary corrections to ensure a proper and complete police investigation.
........
Gord, that assumption is based on their innocene. If true, she is guilty of child endangerment to a larger degree because at that moment in time we are to beleive she felt there was danger afoot. If she is the good mother they wish to project, one mistake give them a pass, the second one does not.
Like Jeana said all they, or their spokespeopele, or their investigators need to do it step up and clear the record. I would imagine that would go a long way towards pinning down what happend that night.
Like Jeana said all they, or their spokespeopele, or their investigators need to do it step up and clear the record. I would imagine that would go a long way towards pinning down what happend that night.
People react in many different ways when in panic or severe shock -
I have always said that their original choice to dine away from their kids was an awful decision - but I can fully understand that when Maddy was found missing , Kate woulld have lost the plot and would not be thinking straight atall - Of course if she had killed Maddy two hours previously and just hidden her - then everything is immaterial - all I am doing is presenting the other side of the coin
I am not sure what you mean by step up and clear the record ? They have both been qustioned at length - hours and hours by the PJ - They cant simply announce a Press conference to go over their statement for the Press and other interested parties - it doesnt work like that
gord, I know what it's like to be panicked.
Nine years ago my son, then 5, sneaked out of the house while he was supposed to be napping. Thinking he was asleep, I was in the laundry room and didn't hear him leave. He climbed on his bike, went riding ½ mile up our dirt road to a fairly busy intersection and pedaled in front of an oncoming school bus.
To make a long story short, it was the fire department sirens that alerted us. Dad went up to answer questions and comfort our son, but I stayed behind for the 5-10 minutes it took for an adult to be summoned to watch our younger children. I did not immediately rush up to the street, knowing that my babies would be left alone in the house.
Yes, you can say people react differently to emergency situations, but in every case I've ever heard, the instinct to protect your children kicks in sooner more often than later. Either Kate has a very minimum amount of that instinct, or she put her own selfish interests above and beyond her children (again). OR she knew there was no kidnapper to be afraid of.
-- You omit a key detail. Did you, yourself, work full-time outside the home during this time? Mothers with careers or who work 40 hours/week are dependent on their husbands to help out. We often are forced to leave key decisions to them, or -- more insidious -- by relying on them for help, we also obligate ourselves to listen to their opinions on things. Only fair, right? He's taking an equal role so he should have input to the decisions?
-- A full-time mom fully "owns" the childcare space and so does not have to compromise as much.
How do you know it was continually?
I think everyone knows that, and agrees with you. Does repeating it give us any new insights on the case?
If people here in cyberland are saddened by innuendos as subtle as the one you mention (I'm not sure I even know what you're talking about), then consider for a moment how people like the McCanns must feel in response all the not-so-subtle opinions sent their way?
I'm not sure what you're asking, but it sounds as if you're questioning how we know the McCanns continually left the children alone.
Mrs. Fenn, the upstairs neighbor, heard Madeleine crying for her parents two nights before she disappeared because the children were alone in the apartment. It has been reported that the Tapas group, with the exception of one couple, went out to eat every night of their vacation without their children and without childcare arrangements in place.
-- I have never claimed that any loving father deliberately puts a child in danger. What I'm saying is that men (husbands/fathers) often have a different opinion about what constitutes 'safe' and as a result suspect that the mom is being overprotective.
-- Does that make any sense to you, or am I really from another planet?
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Why is it that when a father is entrusted with the care of HIS children, he's babysitting or "helping out"????? This makes no sense to me.
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
I don't think you're from another planet. LOL I think that fathers have their way of taking care of the kids and moms have their own way of doing so.
-- By that logic, Gerry and Kate could not have removed Madeleine from the apartment before they went to dinner (they arrived at 8:30), so that means they left her lieing there dead in the apartment with the twins while they went to have dinner?
-- That just doesn't wash, for me.
[QUOTE-=] There have been no end of witnesses, including the McCanns themselves, who have said that once Kate found Madeleine missing, she went back to the Tapas restaurant without the twins to summon help.[/QUOTE]
-- I know she left the twins alone, but the poster who reminded us of this was supposedly answering a question I'd asked, and I didn't see how "leaving the twins" answered the question.
-- Ok, I'm thinking about it.
1) One account I've heard says that she searched all around the place first, before running back to the Tapas Bar. It's possible that she satisfied herself that no abductor was lurking in the immediate surroundings.
2) How many abductors are likely to be running around the place on one night? And how many children can one abductor carry? Abductors like to GET AWAY QUICK, so if he's not right here then he's probably somewhere far away.
3) The twins are probably too big and heavy for someone her size to carry, so she didn't have the option of taking them with her.
4) Why didn't she call someone at the Tapas Bar? Maybe the Tapas celebrants didn't have their cell phones with them or turned on. Or were too drunk to hear them. Or maybe cell service there is crappy. Do we know for sure these apartments have land lines? Seems obvious they would, but as an investigator you'd want to be sure as these days more and more people are going to cell only.
5) It was too late to go knocking on neighbors' doors to ask for help (and even that would've required leaving the twins alone).
So here's the scenario I'm now convinced of: She tried calling Gerry, he didn't pick up. She's panicked, she doesn't want to leave the twins alone but she knows there's no one in the immediate area (inside the apartment or in the bushes around the apartment). She's a good runner (right:? That being one thing all the Kate-disapprovers note again and again). And she knows that with a quick sprint she can get a posse headed toward the apartment in under a minute, meaning that in the unlikely event the abductors come back for more, they won't have time to complete the deed.
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
All of your theories above have Kate concerned that she'd have to leave the twins alone and it seems as though you think she has a problem with that. If her history tells us anything at all, its that she has absolutely NO problem leaving the twins alone.
ThoughtFox
Expecting the Unexpected
Maybe I am, being possibly from a "not well-educated" part of the country, although I assure you that I have a college degree and a daughter in college right now.
What I mean is, the bottom line for me is this:
A good father would not leave three toddlers alone while he went eating, drinking, chatting on the sidewalk, etc, end of story. My husband and I never even left our kids that age alone in the house for more than minutes at a time because it isn't safe.
And right - I do not consider it "babysitting" when a man watches over his own children. I am a stay-at-home Mom, and my husband was jealous of me because he wanted to be there more when our kids were small. He felt as if he was missing alot, and that the kids were closer to me. He couldn't wait to get home to see them when they were babies, and guess what? He still comes home to see them now they are nearly grown.
Today he took the day off to drive our daughter to the airport in Atlanta, and he is hurrying back tonight to see our son play football in Knoxville, with a stop here to pick me and our other son up on the way - hundreds of miles. That is all his choice - our daughter could have taken the shuttle to the airport, we could all skip the football, and our other child could be at a babysitter tonight while we are out partying.
But parenthood is all about choices, isn't it?
I told my husband this morning just how much I appreciate him, because this case is making me sick.
:truce:
-- The key word here is BOTH. Do husband and wife always agree on everything? Um ... not in the universe I inhabit. When there is disagreement do they have to pick one choice over the other? Yes, unless you want stalemate. So sometimes the decision goes with one person's preference and the other has to accept it. I mean, is this news to anyone here?
-- In my numerous posts on the "Gerry" theory, I've pointed out that much rests on Gerry being the dominant one of the couple. Grumpy, domineering, prone to angry outbursts perhaps, and essentially selfish, i.e., one who does NOT lean toward "putting the children first" as so many of the fabulous husbands in cyberspace do.
-- So, all you have to do is buy the assumption that this is who Gerry is. You don't have to buy the assumption that most men are like this. Maybe only a tiny fraction are. Is Gerry one of that fraction?
-- If you can buy the assumption that Gerry is one of that fraction (and you don't have to, of course) then it shouldn't take a great leap of imagination to say that HE drove the decision to leave the kids alone. That and peer pressure since other parents in the group did too.
-- Yes, Kate might be a monster. All I'm saying is that she doesn't HAVE to be a monster. There are other possibilities.
Ok, then you must be in favor of the abduction theory. Or at least, here you are arguing against one of the key arguments in favor of Kate-as-killer-of-Madeleine.
Kate's leaving the twins alone has been used as evidence that she knew there was no abductor around to be afraid of (thus proving that she and/or Gerry did something to Madeleine).
But you've just argued against that point, by saying Kate's such a bad mother she was happy to leave the kids alone any time under any circumstances. So, by your claim we can't make any inference about Kate's guilt or innocence based on her leaving the twins alone.
Is that your point then?
Just to be clear, my theory is that Kate is innocent and Gerry is the guilty one. Then it's up to me to prove that an innocent Kate (fully believing in the abduction of her child) could have left the twins alone like that.
You've made that Easy: She's such a crappy mother "she has absolutely NO problem leaving the twins alone."
QED
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
I agree that both of them are equally to blame. I don't know if they had anything to do with Maddy's death at all. I do know, however, that had they not left them alone, we wouldn't be here. I don't know of I'd go so far as to call them "monsters," but they were negligent.
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