IF They Did It

[s_finch]

Me too, both of your posts did as a matter of fact. My own story is similar to s_finch. We lost our son to the world of autism when he was around two. It was very painful to lose the dream of a typical little boy. Then as he grew and became a Houdini, we learned even more how painful it was.

One day when our son was 4 he did disappear. He was inside with me while I was fixing dinner, my husband was right outside the door push mowing the front lawn. My son wanted to go out and swing on the play set, so I motioned to my husband that he was outside...my husband nodded and acknowledged him being there. One minute I looked out the window and he was swinging, and less than five minutes later he was gone. I hollered at my husband and asked where he was...my husband thought he had come back inside. We frantically searched for about 10 minutes. My son, because of his autism, was almost totally non-verbal at that age, so calling his name didn't help, he would not answer back.

I called the neighbors for help. I'll never forget my exact words. "Andrew had wandered off, please come and help us find him". Within minutes the fire department, and tons of neighbors where at the house searching. We finally found him about an hour later, over a mile away, near a small river that runs near here. He was safe, and happy. What a relief.

Never in a million years did we think he had been abducted, I knew he liked water, so my biggest fear is that he would drown, or fall into a ravine, or get hit by a car. That is what ran through my mind. Also, it took me several years after his diagnosis before I could start any type of autism awareness. It took a long time to deal through our own depression and grief. It wasnt until much later that we found Holland was a wonderfully unique place to be!

The McCanns behavior is quite odd. If Maddie was known to wander off, the first words from Kate's mouth should have been something to reflect that. "She's gone", "She took off again", or even "The little $h*t ran off", anything but her rehearsed kidnap rant.

What a horrific scare you had when he wandered off. I'm so glad you found him and he was/is o.k. My son is in class with several students with autism, and they are truly special just as I'm sure your son is.

 

[s_finch]

Can they get side tracked by a multitude of scents that they are not used to ignoring?

From what I've read, for a "good" dog, new smells don't throw them off to the degree they would alert incorrectly. They are trained to alert to ONLY blood, or decomp smells, or bones, etc... These dogs can also be cross trained to alert to more than one trigger but a good, experienced dog doesn't get thrown off by climate, other animals and new smells.

 

[Jayelles]

Highly trained dogs don't alter their behavior based on the weather.

Nor do they alter their behavior based on the presence of other animals.

We're not talking about the weather though. We are talking about a different climate with different vegetation and other smells which the dogs may not have been trained to deal with.

I've never been to Portugal, but I have been to several other Mediterranean countries and these places do have a problem with stray animals. If stray animals live "rough" in these residential areas, then they surely die there too. I guess what I'm saying is how can be be sure of the cause of the "scent of death"?

Also, in the Eugene Zapata case/appeal, checks on the accuracy of the cadaver dogs showed that they were wrong 78% of the time.

I think the cadaver dog "evidence" is seen as a means to an end rather than the end itself.

 

[colomom]

We're not talking about the weather though. We are talking about a different climate with different vegetation and other smells which the dogs may not have been trained to deal with.

I've never been to Portugal, but I have been to several other Mediterranean countries and these places do have a problem with stray animals. If stray animals live "rough" in these residential areas, then they surely die there too. I guess what I'm saying is how can be be sure of the cause of the "scent of death"?

Also, in the Eugene Zapata case/appeal, checks on the accuracy of the cadaver dogs showed that they were wrong 78% of the time.

I think the cadaver dog "evidence" is seen as a means to an end rather than the end itself.

From this article: http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/k9/5.html

It is apparent that these dogs undergo very intensive training and any dog that alerts to scents other than human decomposition scents are immediately removed from training. Since Eddie and Keela are the best in the world at what they do, I find it very difficult to believe that their abilities would be questioned.

I agree that it will not be by their findings alone that a case would be solved, but combined with other evidence, I think it would strengthen the case significantly.

 

[AfterMidnight]

Well, Daffodil, I agree. Even allowing or encouraging the friends to check on Sean, Amelie and Madeleine indicates that the parents were not aware of anything to hide---or that a massive conspiracy included all of them. That does not seem reasonable or credible. Even supposing seven other doctor/diners agreed to suppress evidence, who would assume the risk that the lid would stay on?! I am disturbed by the window pried from the inside, the drop of blood on the window sill (found much later than the spray on the wall), and the neat storing of Cuddle Cat on a high shelf. Even if the tale of the vengeful maid has been debunked, I believe someone or two people who worked at Mark Warner's resort either tipped the kidnapper or were more actively involved. The man who was observed lurking for a long time in the stairwell was probably an abductor. The picture is sickening, isn't it?

Good post, you're thinking like I am.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Of course these dogs are trained to differentiate between animal corpses and human corpses. What would be the point of using them if they couldn't do that??? :waitasec:

Human Remains Detection
"Cadaver Dogs"

The latest Police Canine Detector Specialty

by Ofc. Allen Lowy
and Ofc. Pat McAlhany

[Miami-Dade Police DepartmentCanine Unit[/SIZE]

[]The working police canine has become an integral part of law enforcement. For centuries now, dogs have had a well established place in law enforcement. Working a loyal members of teams with their human partners, they have proved to be invaluable in such vital areas as explosive detection, narcotics detection, and searching for criminals as well as lost or missing persons. In many ways, dogs contribute more to achievement of law enforcement objectives than sophisticated law enforcement technology. [/SIZE]

[]Despite the long and distinguished history of canines in law enforcement, their capabilities and applications are still emerging. One relatively new area of specialization, that is very promising, involves the use of canines to detect the presence of human remains. Resourceful canine handlers have found that dogs can be trained to detect human remains long after death., despite burial or attempted concealment. Trained dogs are able to distinguish between human remains, animal remains, and a wide range of other odors that would normally be expected to distract them. [/SIZE]

[]Thus, their ability to distinguish between sources of similar biological odors enhances their application in the area of Human Remains detection (HRD).[/SIZE]
[]Canines that detect human remains, commonly referred to as cadaver dogs, have been minimally represented in the law enforcement canine population across the United States. For a variety of reasons this canine detector specialty has not been given the attention that is afforded both explosive and narcotics specialties. These departments continue the age old practice of assigning all aspects of death investigations to Crime Scene and Homicide units, without realizing the additional capabilities that a trained HRD canine team would bring to their scenes where a corpse or the remains thereof must be located. The remaining obstacle generally involves the complexity and type of required canine team training. [/SIZE]

 

[Jayelles]

Only one of the dogs alerts to human remains and it is also trained to alert for blood. The other only alerts for blood.

They'd need to prove that the blood was in fact Maddie's and not from one of the many other hundreds of holiday guests who had stayed in the apartment. These apartments sleep 4-6 guests. Bookings are done on a weekly basis. The "season" is usually April-October. Say 6 months/24 weeks. That could be 100+ people per year.

 

[SleuthMom]

The thing is (and I hate to say it) without a body or confession, the cadaver dogs's scent won't be taken into account at all, I haven't read of any case where they took that as evidence without a body.

 

[gord]

The thing is (and I hate to say it) without a body or confession, the cadaver dogs's scent won't be taken into account at all, I haven't read of any case where they took that as evidence without a body.

hey we agree !!

you are right the dogs are an aid to the police - to point them where they need to go to help them maybe find a body or confirm a suspicion - it is not evidence as the margin of error is too great - especialy in a murder case

 

[Texana]

We're not talking about the weather though. We are talking about a different climate with different vegetation and other smells which the dogs may not have been trained to deal with.

I've never been to Portugal, but I have been to several other Mediterranean countries and these places do have a problem with stray animals. If stray animals live "rough" in these residential areas, then they surely die there too. I guess what I'm saying is how can be be sure of the cause of the "scent of death"?

Also, in the Eugene Zapata case/appeal, checks on the accuracy of the cadaver dogs showed that they were wrong 78% of the time.

I think the cadaver dog "evidence" is seen as a means to an end rather than the end itself.

Stray dogs don't die in the trunks of rental cars, which is where the dogs alerted.

 

[Pinkhammer]

What a skeptic you are!

 

[CaliKid]

Only one of the dogs alerts to human remains and it is also trained to alert for blood. The other only alerts for blood.

They'd need to prove that the blood was in fact Maddie's and not from one of the many other hundreds of holiday guests who had stayed in the apartment. These apartments sleep 4-6 guests. Bookings are done on a weekly basis. The "season" is usually April-October. Say 6 months/24 weeks. That could be 100+ people per year.

Do you understand anything about DNA? I'm sure they already know whether the blood was Madeleine's or not.

 

[Barnaby]

Do you understand anything about DNA? I'm sure they already know whether the blood was Madeleine's or not.

I believe that they do know that of course!

 

[Pinkhammer]

They know a heckuva lot more than they are letting the British press know. Can't say I blame them, as the British tabloid press is in a vengeful mode, trying to depict the Policia Judiciaria as a bunch of Keystone cops.

 

[gord]

They know a heckuva lot more than they are letting the British press know. Can't say I blame them, as the British tabloid press is in a vengeful mode, trying to depict the Policia Judiciaria as a bunch of Keystone cops.

if they do - then what are they waiting for what is the point in letting this whole situation just fester with nothing happening

As I said before - it wouldnt happen in your country and it wouldnt happen in mine

 

[colomom]

if they do - then what are they waiting for what is the point in letting this whole situation just fester with nothing happening

As I said before - it wouldnt happen in your country and it wouldnt happen in mine

And Portugal isn't your country and it isn't mine.

Their judicial system is vastly different than ours.

Patience is a virtue.

 

[CaliKid]

This is only an educated guess, but I think every time a test is completed, the lab is calling the PJ with the results and questions about conducting further testing. They may even be offering opinions about how the PJ should proceed in regards to more detailed tests.

IOW, we have results for test "a" and they were positive. I would suggest that we now follow up with test "b".

 

[Pinkhammer]

I am sure they are checking and double-checking all results, and taking their time to cross all the "t"s and dot all the "i"s, because this is going to be a sensational trial, if and when it ever takes place.

 

[Tuba]

Those patio doors, according to the most reliable newspapers, are French doors. That would make them easier for Madeleine to open. From what I have seen, there was not really any exit from the flat that led safely away. We have the steep stairs with a child-guard here and then sharp drops outside windows.

 

[Barnaby]

Are the results in?

http://www.express.co.uk/ourpaper/view/2007-10-08