If your child was murdered

[2 percent]

I just don't think you can put all parents of murdered children into one category. I have seen parents when a child dies. Sometimes they mourn and rage, sometimes they become catatonic and sometimes even though they are sad they turn to faith and seem strong. Some just shut down and start focusing on crazy things not to think about it.

I think that the death of a child is unique no matter how many times it happens across the globe but until it happens to you, You have no possible idea how you would react.

Among the parents of murdered children there is a commonality.
They all carry the horror on their face. There is no other circumstance - natural death or accident - that creates that look.

That's why Susan Smith wasn't convincing when she said anything about her children. Or Darlie Routier, Diane Downs, Robin Rowe, Frances Newton, etc.

 

[KariKae]

I *think* I would want to look put together, so I would plan in the back of my mind what I was going to wear. When I had to speak at my dad's funeral, I was in a state of shock and grief and I cared that I looked put together.

 

[BBB167893]

That's a good point, that we think things are suspicious based on our own ideas, our own personalities, our own histories, etc.

Sometimes that's all we have to go on in life.

 

[oldspice]

Patsy Ramsey was a pageant mom and a Miss America wannabe, so I think her appearance was a constant preoccupation for her. That was a deep part of her personality. I'm undecided, but I don't think this vain behavior really counts as evidence against her.

 

[Chelly]

Patsy Ramsey was a pageant mom and a Miss America wannabe, so I think her appearance was a constant preoccupation for her. That was a deep part of her personality. I'm undecided, but I don't think this vain behavior really counts as evidence against her.

Correct, her personality and vanity do not count as evidence either way. However, her personality combined with evidence assist us in forming logical conclusions.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Correct, her personality and vanity do not count as evidence either way. However, her personality combined with evidence assist us in forming logical conclusions.

Actually I think that it exposes biases.

I think that we all have inherent things that rub us wrong. I think when someone acts in a way we don't like we have more of a tendency to judge them harsher or believe the worst about them than if we liked their personality.
I just think that may be the human response.

I don't believe that her thoughts about how she looked or that she wanted to be together have any bearing on whether or not she is guilty of murder.

 

[Chelly]

Actually I think that it exposes biases.

I think that we all have inherent things that rub us wrong. I think when someone acts in a way we don't like we have more of a tendency to judge them harsher or believe the worst about them than if we liked their personality.
I just think that may be the human response.

I don't believe that her thoughts about how she looked or that she wanted to be together have any bearing on whether or not she is guilty of murder.

Nobody said it did.

 

[Chelly]

Actually I think that it exposes biases.

I think that we all have inherent things that rub us wrong. I think when someone acts in a way we don't like we have more of a tendency to judge them harsher or believe the worst about them than if we liked their personality.
I just think that may be the human response.

I don't believe that her thoughts about how she looked or that she wanted to be together have any bearing on whether or not she is guilty of murder.

AGREED:seeya:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

TBH, I see criticism of parents of missing/murdered children all the time, even when someone else has been arrested. It's pretty common, actually. It's not so much on WS because of the rules, but go on other websites, and you'll see it. Of course, I always wonder if we criticize the R's more harshly for their actions because we think they killed their child. But I really think that people have no problems speaking up if they see a problem in how a parent(s) is behaving even if they think the parent(s) is innocent. I think a lot of the things that people criticised/questioned about the R's would still happen even if they weren't the main suspects. People would still have problems with the pageants, wonder why they didn't have an alarm system, etc. Still wouldn't like their personalities.

 

[BOESP]

The Ramseys did not cooperate with police concerning the death of their child until months after JonBenet's death (and years later for producing some items of the evidence). I find fault with that.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The Ramseys did not cooperate with police concerning the death of their child until months after JonBenet's death (and years later for producing some items of the evidence). I find fault with that.

You mean when the police wanted to use their babys body as ransom for an interview? Pretty sure at that point I would not be keen on cooperating with them either.

The police are the ones that backed them into a corner with their approach.
At that point I would have lawyered up too.

 

[Nom de plume]

You mean when the police wanted to use their babys body as ransom for an interview? Pretty sure at that point I would not be keen on cooperating with them either.

The police are the ones that backed them into a corner with their approach.
At that point I would have lawyered up too.

You've got you "facts" a little twisted there Scarlett. The BS about using the body as ransom came straight from the RST, and it was total BS! Did you see that in the movie PMPT? They wanted to keep the body for further testing. The RST didn't want them to do any more testing so they cooked up the story and threatened to go public with it if her body wasn't released immediately.

The police did NOT back them into a corner! Where did you come up with that? They lawyered up the day JB was found dead. They refused to be questioned that very night!

Once again, you're making excuses for the Rs, and you don't even have your facts straight!

 

[Nom de plume]

Scarlett - I've got a question for you. How do you explain JR calling MA within minutes of JB being "found" and telling LE that he had an "important business meeting in Atlanta"? They were supposed to be in MI at that time, not Atlanta, so when did this "important business meeting" get planned, and what was the purpose of it? If the reason for trying to fly to Atlanta immediately was just to be near family, then why lie about it?

I'm quite sure you've found an acceptable excuse, but I'm curious about what that might be.

Another question for you. Do you find any fault with anything the Rs did, or didn't do, or said? Does even one thing give you pause?

 

[BOESP]

You mean when the police wanted to use their babys body as ransom for an interview? Pretty sure at that point I would not be keen on cooperating with them either.

The police are the ones that backed them into a corner with their approach.
At that point I would have lawyered up too.

BBM: At least I see that you do understand the Ramseys would not give the police an interview.

Iirc, JonBenet's body was released three days after she was killed then taken to Atlanta by the family. That is a mighty dadburn quick release in a homicide investigation. It takes weeks in most states.

The Ramseys were the only people in the house when JonBenet was killed and they wouldn't give an interview that day or the next (most parents do, at least the innocent ones). That does not sound like parents who want LE to find the killer. It sounds like stalling to me.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I know that if something so horrific had happened to my child in my house I would most likely not want to talk to anyone.

I'm not going to speculate on why two people who just experienced the worst loss ever in the most brutal fashion may not have wanted to talk to police but I'm wondering if it was on lawyer counsel? We pay lawyers to take care of things and look out for us.

 

[Chrishope]

I know that if something so horrific had happened to my child in my house I would most likely not want to talk to anyone.

I'm not going to speculate on why two people who just experienced the worst loss ever in the most brutal fashion may not have wanted to talk to police but I'm wondering if it was on lawyer counsel? We pay lawyers to take care of things and look out for us.

It might very well have been on advice of counsel.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You've got you "facts" a little twisted there Scarlett. The BS about using the body as ransom came straight from the RST, and it was total BS! Did you see that in the movie PMPT? They wanted to keep the body for further testing. The RST didn't want them to do any more testing so they cooked up the story and threatened to go public with it if her body wasn't released immediately.

The police did NOT back them into a corner! Where did you come up with that? They lawyered up the day JB was found dead. They refused to be questioned that very night!

Once again, you're making excuses for the Rs, and you don't even have your facts straight!

"Boulder police investigators asked the Boulder County coroner's office if it could withhold the body of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey from her family - even though forensic work was complete - to pressure them into submitting to a police interview, Coroner John Meyer confirmed Thursday.

Meyer, a physician who was legal custodian of the girl's body following her murder and an autopsy, and the only official who could sanction release, refused the police request."

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/04/25-2.html


"Boulder investigators asked whether they could delay the release of JonBenet Ramsey's body for burial until they had interviewed her parents, the coroner confirmed Friday. "

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon68.htm

That is directly from Coroner. Not from a book.

I think my dismay on this case is that people do not look for confirmation before just accepting what other people in the forum quote over and over and over.

This is not a made up story but a fact according to the CORONER himself.

 

[BOESP]

I know that if something so horrific had happened to my child in my house I would most likely not want to talk to anyone.

I'm not going to speculate on why two people who just experienced the worst loss ever in the most brutal fashion may not have wanted to talk to police but I'm wondering if it was on lawyer counsel? We pay lawyers to take care of things and look out for us.

Any parent who won't cooperate with police in the investigation of homicide involving their child is hiding something, lawyer or not. Most innocent parents (I'd go so far as to say all innocent parents) interested in finding the killer of their child will cooperate, usually to the point of being a pest (which, btw, I agree with -- I'd care enough to keep up with what was going on and push if need be rather than wallow in self-pity).

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think that when you feel like the police are against you and know that they wanted to hold the body of your child for ransom, That you may change the way you think.

Innocent parents go in all the time and talk to police and the police hang them out to dry.

 

[BOESP]

"Boulder police investigators asked the Boulder County coroner's office if it could withhold the body of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey from her family - even though forensic work was complete - to pressure them into submitting to a police interview, Coroner John Meyer confirmed Thursday.

Meyer, a physician who was legal custodian of the girl's body following her murder and an autopsy, and the only official who could sanction release, refused the police request."

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/04/25-2.html


"Boulder investigators asked whether they could delay the release of JonBenet Ramsey's body for burial until they had interviewed her parents, the coroner confirmed Friday. "

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon68.htm

That is directly from Coroner. Not from a book.

I think my dismay on this case is that people do not look for confirmation before just accepting what other people in the forum quote over and over and over.

This is not a made up story but a fact according to the CORONER himself.

Most of us have already read this years ago. None of the posters here have denied the article but it doesn't excuse the Ramseys failure to cooperate. Since her body was released and they still didn't cooperate it makes the Ramseys look guilty and self-serving in my book.