Identified! IL - Chicago, Body parts of 2-3yo AA child, Sep'15 - Kyrian Knox

[Rayemonde]

I don't know why I am so convinced the perp in this case did not drive to the park. I have no basis on which to support this notion of mine. Just my feel because why dump the torso elsewhere? This was a small child, not a grown man. I agree that the hand feet head removal does slow IDing a victim. But this is such a small victim and so much easier to dispose of or hide than a grown person. The lack of torso being found and therefore possibly dumped elsewhere troubles me. Why not dump the entire child whole and weighted down in the lagoon if you feel it will not be discovered? Two dump spots increases the likelihood of being seen, caught, remains turning up, etc. than one in my mind anyway.

No facts. Just thoughts based on what was found and what was not and they possible whys.

Interesting thoughts...

So say someone removed the baby's head, hands and feet to try and stop the baby from being identified. Well, everyone knows that any part of a body can be identified through DNA instead of fingerprints, facial recognition or dental records these days. But if someone finds a torso of a baby who was never reported missing then the DNA will never be matched to anything, whereas dental records or a facial sketch could still be traced to a child who was never reported missing.

I guess what I'm saying is, *if* the body was dismembered to make identification more difficult, it would only make sense if the person knew the baby would not be reported missing - so their own child, or the child of someone under their control. Not a random abduction.

 

[carbuff]

To me, it feels like it's probably the same sort of situation as Bella Bond in Boston, with one parent not involved and the other in a series of relationships and bad decisions, maybe moving around a lot, and neighbors and family aware of the problems but feeling helpless* to do anything.

*Not saying they actually are helpless, but it seems that lots of people think they don't have many options for a situation like that.

 

[tlcya]

thanks for your thoughts all. This one is really bugging me.

Helps to bounce things around.

the WHYs of the dismemberment and the WHYs of that specific dumping spot feel like they are key to IDing the person responsible.

 

[Rayemonde]

To me, it feels like it's probably the same sort of situation as Bella Bond in Boston, with one parent not involved and the other in a series of relationships and bad decisions, maybe moving around a lot, and neighbors and family aware of the problems but feeling helpless* to do anything.

*Not saying they actually are helpless, but it seems that lots of people think they don't have many options for a situation
like that.

Or Relisha Rudd, where the mother gave her child away and never reported her missing... When the school realised she was missing a couple of weeks later, the mother refused to file a missing person report! The mother didn't hurt or kill the child, but she gave her away to someone who did

 

[Rayemonde]

thanks for your thoughts all. This one is really bugging me.

Helps to bounce things around.

the WHYs of the dismemberment and the WHYs of that specific dumping spot feel like they are key to IDing the person responsible.

Or maybe we're just trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense! If the person was psychotic or high on drugs at the time, maybe the dismemberment just seemed like a good idea at the time?? They might have had their own crazy logic that doesn't make sense to a sane, sober person. Or maybe they just aren't too bright and didn't think it through very well *dunno*

 

[EmiLove832]

I don't see how it could not be a local person who dumped the baby there or someone who had lived there for a long time and was very comfortable with the area.

Look at this website, the West Garfield Park is rated 2nd most violent out of 77 community areas in Chicago.

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/community/west-garfield-park

The stats on crimes in a 30 day window from August - September of this year are insane!

Here is East Garfield Park - 6th out of 77 - http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/community/east-garfield-park

 

[LaborDayRN]

If you were going to transport the body parts, why choose a lagoon in a busy park rather than somewhere more secluded?
Is there CCTV in the park?

What do you think the person might have transported the body parts in - a rucksack or something? Why not just put the whole body in a little suitcase rather than going to the trouble of dismembering?

I'm gonna guess that once you dismember a body, it gets really messy and smelly really fast. Wouldn't that make it even more risky to take on public transport than a whole body in a suitcase?
Mind you, Luka Magnotta said he took Jun Lin's severed head on public transport and then left it in a park. It just seems so flagrant to get on a bus and sit next to people with body parts on your bag!!

To dismember a body you need privacy. Probably the person did it at home... Then if you were going to drive to the lagoon you could take as long as you wanted, but sitting on public transport I think the smell would become noticeable very quickly, and even if no one confronted the person about it they might remember and then phone in a tip when the body parts were found in the lagoon. And again, if you were going to travel a long way to dispose of the body parts, why choose such a public place rather than somewhere more private?

You could control the odor if you put the parts in a freezer first. And.....parts would fit better in most freezers than a whole....(that's all I can stand to type about that).

 

[Jabarn]

Or maybe we're just trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense! If the person was psychotic or high on drugs at the time, maybe the dismemberment just seemed like a good idea at the time?? They might have had their own crazy logic that doesn't make sense to a sane, sober person. Or maybe they just aren't too bright and didn't think it through very well *dunno*

Thanks, Rayemonde, for your good insight. I agree it is hard to make sense of the reasoning behind a person who could do something like this. There are too many cases of murdered toddlers by boyfriends of the mom. Why the moms let it happen does seem, in a lot of these cases, to be a causality of an outside addiction, whether it is drugs, video games, etc. As for the dismemberment, speculation only, but the toddler needed attention, wouldn't go to bed, whatever it was, but interrupted the addiction of the mother and her boyfriend. The mom couldn't handle it, showed some anger and frustration, and the boyfriend stepped in and over-reacted, being more frustrated at the mom and making a big show of violence, in a passive aggressive attempt toward the mother. Speculation only, but that does seem to be a commonality among these cases like this.

 

[Rayemonde]

Are East Garfield Park and West Garfield Park two separate parks? Which one has the lagoon where baby Doe was found?

 

[Rayemonde]

You could control the odor if you put the parts in a freezer first. And.....parts would fit better in most freezers than a whole....(that's all I can stand to type about that).

Very good point, I didn't think of that!

 

[carbuff]

thanks for your thoughts all. This one is really bugging me.

Helps to bounce things around.

the WHYs of the dismemberment and the WHYs of that specific dumping spot feel like they are key to IDing the person responsible.

Yeah, I keep turning it around and around in my head and coming up with all kinds of possibilities but nothing that feels right. There's something very odd about choosing that location.

 

[Tillicum]

You could control the odor if you put the parts in a freezer first. And.....parts would fit better in most freezers than a whole....(that's all I can stand to type about that).

And then from the freezer to a cooler, then off to the park, then stick around till everyone leaves.

 

[EmiLove832]

Are East Garfield Park and West Garfield Park two separate parks? Which one has the lagoon where baby Doe was found?

I did a little more googling. East & West are different neighborhoods. 20% of the East Garfield Park neighborhood is the park itself.

 

[EmiLove832]

Look at this post from Yelp. A young lady ask if it is safe to walk through Garfield Park at night. The responses are almost all NO!

http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-walking-in-east-garfield-park-at-night-safe

 

[Kadoober]

Are East Garfield Park and West Garfield Park two separate parks? Which one has the lagoon where baby Doe was found?

No, east and west are referring to the neighborhoods, not the park itself. Chicago is a city of neighborhoods.


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[carbuff]

Look at this post from Yelp. A young lady ask if it is safe to walk through Garfield Park at night. The responses are almost all NO!

http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-walking-in-east-garfield-park-at-night-safe

On the other hand, that means if you were in the park to dispose of a body, you'd be surrounded by people who have no interest in contacting the police and probably no interest in what you're doing.

 

[Kadoober]

Carbuff... exactly that!

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[charminglane]

On the other hand, that means if you were in the park to dispose of a body, you'd be surrounded by people who have no interest in contacting the police and probably no interest in what you're doing.

Maybe it's someone that is a complete 180 in terms of being at that park.
An anomaly. Someone might have chosen that spot as the least likely place anyone would ever think they would traipse.
Like Beverly Hills vs. Garfield Park. An upscale person?

 

[giagreen]

Idk I keep thinking who ever did this didn't have a way out of the area and resorted to dismemberment for convenience of public transportation.
Doesn't make sense to leave a child there if your so worried about the child being identified if you had a car.

 

[Confusion]

It's possible that the person responsible isn't even old enough to drive yet. If the person didn't want to draw attention when discarding the body, it may have made sense (to him/her) to cut it into smaller pieces and spread it around. If carrying a trash bag with the full body in it people would likely notice since not a lot of people take their trash for walks or bike rides. Putting parts into bags and stuffing them into a backpack, large purse or something similar would make them easy to carry and be inconspicuous. Especially if riding a bicycle, it wouldn't be that hard to take one backpack full to the lagoon, empty it, go home, pack up the rest and take those to another place (lake, stream, etc.).

It wouldn't have to be a minor though, I know many adults who don't drive.

MOO