IL IL - Dermot Kelly, 16, Oglesby, Jan 1972

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I'm moving away from suicide. If the rifle in the water was his it may have been an accidental drowning. He may have done a lot of thinking and put some planning into running away. Maybe going hunting was an excuse so he could leave the house. His parents called so soon after he went missing they may have been keeping very close tabs on him and he felt if he said he was going to visit a friend they would check. Also I think the way he was not happy with society may have been due to his sexuality and he wanted to be some place away from negative attitudes. Guess I am just hopefull.
 
I'm moving away from suicide. If the rifle in the water was his it may have been an accidental drowning. He may have done a lot of thinking and put some planning into running away. Maybe going hunting was an excuse so he could leave the house. His parents called so soon after he went missing they may have been keeping very close tabs on him and he felt if he said he was going to visit a friend they would check. Also I think the way he was not happy with society may have been due to his sexuality and he wanted to be some place away from negative attitudes. Guess I am just hopefull.

Good points!

I agree. If Dermot would have said he was going to a friend's house, his parents would have checked up on him most likely. He may have gone away to do a lot of thinking....A LOT OF THINKING. And perhaps coming from a large family with so much conflict in it, especially if Dermot had revealed or was found out that he was gay, along with the conservative issues of the parents, pushing Dermot into areas and venues where he did not want to go, it is possible that the only way out of his daily troubles was to leave, forever.

Maybe he thought at the river for such a long time, meditation and reflecting on so many things, that he could have become totally oblivious to the bitter cold. Dermot may have been so determined on planning his new life, that his thought-process became a self-induced trance. If WS finds out that his boots and jacket were scattered haphazardly, it is possible that hypothermia played a role, in which case he could have died that day. Or Dermot could have gotten up, slipped, on the ice, and fell into the water. Dermot may not have been able to save himself if those currents were very strong and the water was extremely deep. Actually, hypothermia and/or drowning could have played a role in both of these events. The air temperature was only above 12 degrees above zero that day. I don't know the temperature of the water.

The idea of Dermot arranging to be picked up by a river vessel makes this case even more fascinating. I wonder if he did that, let's say that he did, how would he go about contacting the people and ship to take him on an adventure to his "new life?" I wonder what his story would be? Something tells me it would be extremely interesting but very sad at the same time. I wonder if at the time, and in the weeks afterwords, did LE actually SEARCH shipping vessel records looking for any clues of Dermot boarding such a vessel and to where? Or did they just assume that he had drowned in the river, or even thought of suicide when his rifle was found? LE would not have considered the strong possibility of the reason why Dermot had to run away, because he either revealed, or it was found out that he was gay, and his parents could not take that. (If the issues of homosexuality in Dermot's case are true. I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to support this.)

The gay theory being revealed and his parents insistence of conformity to their anti-gay beliefs, strong Catholic Religion background in the family, and potential abusive relationships in the home may have given Dermot no other choice but to leave. If hospital records show admittance of DK in the Fall of 1971 for Conformity Therapy, that would indicate to me at least that although his running away from home was voluntary, he felt forced into doing that because in Dermot's mind, there were no other options.

And if he talked about this with the new acquaintances and potential friends he made at the clinic, that could have given support and determination in Dermot's mind to do this. He certainly knew about the hippie movement and the newfound cultural identities that assimilated his thoughts and feelings. "Here are the people who think as I feel." And at the clinic, assuming that the "medical treatment" was for conforming therapy, Dermot was smart enough to know that many of the patients there were forced to go to "treatment?" by their parents.

Dermot sought escape, I believe that he thought, "I have to sever all ties with my family, education, and my parents strict conservative views. Their views and life-choices are just not for me. Everything that they say and do, just goes completely against my hopes and my dreams. They will never understand, and I can't spend the rest of my life like this. even waiting till I'm eighteen, another two years to do this legally, I can't wait. I'm going to make a new life on my own, and do it completely on my own."

How far he got in planning that new life, may have been less than a day, or a much longer period of time. DK's case is really a powerful thought-provoking set of complex circumstances. Dermot showed great courage, passion, and compassion, during this ordeal. Very sad that more people did not listen to him, as I believe Dermot has a better focus on life than most adults.

He just seems like such a kind and loving person!

Satch
 
Just a thought but he may have had a relationship with a deckhand on a barge. Perhaps he had met this person and had rendevoused with them before sneaking off together. Could have been a way to keep the relationship private. That could have been a way to get far away too. But I hate to speculate too much about that because it is assuming alot of unknowns. Just a thought.
 
I was around Dermot's age back in 1972 and I recall drugs such as LSD and mescaline around. A lot of kids experimented with these drugs. They were quite mind altering. One would hallucinate not only what they saw, but what they heard. They effected all the senses. I wonder if it was possible Dermot took a hit of "acid" that day and got into trouble along the river? My only reservation is that people usually do drugs of that nature with others---not alone.

I wonder if Dermot's friends and classmates from back then, would have insight on this? Perhaps, they recall these drugs circulating around. Since this happened so long ago, maybe they could help with a little insight on a possibility like this (mind altering drugs, such as LSD, etc.). Good kids sometimes would take chances on taking these drugs out of curiousity, for the experience, or to fit in. JMO
 
I was around Dermot's age back in 1972 and I recall drugs such as LSD and mescaline around. A lot of kids experimented with these drugs. They were quite mind altering. One would hallucinate not only what they saw, but what they heard. They effected all the senses. I wonder if it was possible Dermot took a hit of "acid" that day and got into trouble along the river? My only reservation is that people usually do drugs of that nature with others---not alone.

I wonder if Dermot's friends and classmates from back then, would have insight on this? Perhaps, they recall these drugs circulating around. Since this happened so long ago, maybe they could help with a little insight on a possibility like this (mind altering drugs, such as LSD, etc.). Good kids sometimes would take chances on taking these drugs out of curiousity, for the experience, or to fit in. JMO

Interesting,

How long would a small amount of acid stay in the system? I would venture to guess that Dermot's disappearance was probably not drug related, as he told his parents three days before he left that he was planning to go away and make a new life for himself. This was probably rational thinking over a long period of time due to tensions in the family. I have also learned that Dermot's father had a bad temper.

However, if Dermot had been taking drugs, they could have been a form of escapism from family problems. Even though Dermot was extremely street-wise, drugs can drive a person to do awful things to themselves.

It would be very interested to find out two very important elements in this case:

1.) Has Dermot's Social Security Number been used, since he vanished on January 30, 1972? Or Changed? Who would WS need to contact to find this out? Unless Dermot changed his Social Security Number, (can/how do people do that?) it would likely solve the mystery if he is living or not?

2.) Confiding in anyone who knew Dermot in the months, weeks, and days, leading up to his disappearance. What was his personality like? What were his plans and why? Where did he plan to go? With whom did Dermot speak about his new life? Details?

Satch
 
Interesting,

How long would a small amount of acid stay in the system? I would venture to guess that Dermot's disappearance was probably not drug related, as he told his parents three days before he left that he was planning to go away and make a new life for himself. This was probably rational thinking over a long period of time due to tensions in the family. I have also learned that Dermot's father had a bad temper.

However, if Dermot had been taking drugs, they could have been a form of escapism from family problems. Even though Dermot was extremely street-wise, drugs can drive a person to do awful things to themselves.

It would be very interested to find out two very important elements in this case:

1.) Has Dermot's Social Security Number been used, since he vanished on January 30, 1972? Or Changed? Who would WS need to contact to find this out? Unless Dermot changed his Social Security Number, (can/how do people do that?) it would likely solve the mystery if he is living or not?

2.) Confiding in anyone who knew Dermot in the months, weeks, and days, leading up to his disappearance. What was his personality like? What were his plans and why? Where did he plan to go? With whom did Dermot speak about his new life? Details?

Satch

I'm not sure what the laws were back then about changing a Social Security number but here is what I found...http://search.usa.gov/search?affiliate=ssa&query=get+a+new+social+security+number

I think in any case you would need prove of identity (birth certificate and the old S.S. #)
 
Interesting,

How long would a small amount of acid stay in the system? I would venture to guess that Dermot's disappearance was probably not drug related, as he told his parents three days before he left that he was planning to go away and make a new life for himself. This was probably rational thinking over a long period of time due to tensions in the family. I have also learned that Dermot's father had a bad temper.

However, if Dermot had been taking drugs, they could have been a form of escapism from family problems. Even though Dermot was extremely street-wise, drugs can drive a person to do awful things to themselves.

It would be very interested to find out two very important elements in this case:

1.) Has Dermot's Social Security Number been used, since he vanished on January 30, 1972? Or Changed? Who would WS need to contact to find this out? Unless Dermot changed his Social Security Number, (can/how do people do that?) it would likely solve the mystery if he is living or not?

2.) Confiding in anyone who knew Dermot in the months, weeks, and days, leading up to his disappearance. What was his personality like? What were his plans and why? Where did he plan to go? With whom did Dermot speak about his new life? Details?

Satch

I think it takes about 8 hours to come down from a high on drugs of that nature, but I'm only going by memory. I do think it would be a good idea for someone to interview his friends from that era. They may have a little insight to add to the investigation and feel at ease about talking about drugs and things the boys did back in 1972, which they wouldn't ordinarily admit when they were teenagers. Dermot's parents said that he didn't use drugs, but you can't always go by what the parents say, because more often than not, kids try to keep activities like that a secret from their parents. I could be way off base on this, but it did occur to me. The barefoot prints to the water's edge in 12 degree temps made me think of mind altering drugs. I'm not completely convinced he took a drug at the time, but I think it is worth interviewing his old friends on the subject. JMO
 
I probably missed it somewhere but is there a photo of the river where his belongings where found? How wide is it?
 
Has it been confirmed that the gun found was his? I thought I read that it didn't have a scope on it and his did. Aren't scopes attached with screws? Maybe it depends on the gun... If they are I can't imagine that they would both come loose at the same time.
 
Has it been confirmed that the gun found was his? I thought I read that it didn't have a scope on it and his did. Aren't scopes attached with screws? Maybe it depends on the gun... If they are I can't imagine that they would both come loose at the same time.

No, they could not confirm it was Dermot's gun because of the missing scope. But too coincidental for it to be anything but Dermot's gun. They found rifle prints in the snow along with bare feet leading 20 feet out and into the river with no return prints.

Dermot's jacket and boots were found, but do not know the distance apart. Knowing this may help determine if this was a tragic death or planned disappearance. Were the clothes neatly organized or strewn across the river bank?

Here is info about the Vermillion River in Ogelsby Illinois: (from Wikipedia)

"The Vermilion River is a 74.8-mile-long (120.4 km)[1] tributary of the Illinois River in the state of Illinois, United States. The river flows north, in contrast to a second Vermilion River in Illinois, which flows south to the Wabash River. The Illinois and Wabash rivers each have a tributary named the Little Vermilion River as well.

The north-flowing Vermilion River and the south-flowing Middle Fork Vermilion River run on what is close to a straight line between Oglesby and Danville. In presettlement times, the two rivers drained an upland marsh near Roberts. It is possible that early settlers regarded these as a single river that flowed in two directions. It is also possible that, in early settlement times, these rivers formed a canoe route between the Illinois River and Wabash River, with a portage through the marshes near Roberts. This may explain why the two rivers have the same name.

The north-flowing Vermilion flows in a northerly direction from its origin in Livingston and Ford counties in north central Illinois, eventually emptying into the Illinois River, near Oglesby. Perhaps it is best known for its stretch of whitewater between Lowell and Oglesby, Illinois, which is one of few found in Illinois.

Access to a stretch of river around a dam owned by Buzzi Unicem was temporarily barred in 2009, after two drowning deaths that occurred on June 23 and 26 respectively, as well as numerous other boating accidents. The river access was reopened in 2010.[2]"

Satch

PS. I could not get the direct link to work.
 
I think it takes about 8 hours to come down from a high on drugs of that nature, but I'm only going by memory. I do think it would be a good idea for someone to interview his friends from that era. They may have a little insight to add to the investigation and feel at ease about talking about drugs and things the boys did back in 1972, which they wouldn't ordinarily admit when they were teenagers. Dermot's parents said that he didn't use drugs, but you can't always go by what the parents say, because more often than not, kids try to keep activities like that a secret from their parents. I could be way off base on this, but it did occur to me. The barefoot prints to the water's edge in 12 degree temps made me think of mind altering drugs. I'm not completely convinced he took a drug at the time, but I think it is worth interviewing his old friends on the subject. JMO

I think with the strict parental authority, hot-tempered father, and the high expectations for success in the Kelly home, that Dermot could have been driven to drugs to escape his family and personal pressures. If he survived and joined the hippie movement as a part of a new life, he may have gotten into drugs at that time. I don't think there is evidence of drug use leading up to his disappearance. However, remember that Dermot was a very quiet, introverted, young man, with potentially a lot of inner rebellious and painful thoughts. If his friends would be willing to talk, they could create an even better understanding than his parents, I would say.

Or Dermot could have been a loner, drifter type of guy, with few friends. Maybe I am looking too much into this, but sometimes when I look at the only photo that is out there of Dermot around 1972, I see in his eyes and facial expression, a lot of hurt and sadness. He was clever, articulate, and deep in thought with his feelings and actions.

Satch
 
There are so many things about Dermot's case that haunt me,

What I can't figure out is why his parents, if they were concerned about him being "despondent" would let him leave the house with a gun? Sure, Dermot may have gone target shooting before, but when he said "I am going to make a new life on my own, and do it completely on my own." to his parents, it went in one ear, and out the other. Unlike me, and so many of the people here at WS, who will probably never forget that quote. This is so sad!

I honestly believe that when Dermot was growing up and very likely in his teen years, there was very little done by his parents for his benefit. Now, his parents if alive today would say, "That's insane to think that, we did everything for Dermot!" However, I think the things that they did were to mold and bend him into the kind of person that Dermot DIDN'T want to be. The things that were done for Dermot and to Dermot, I suspect in later years, were against his will, and were done for Mom and Dad's benefit. How many times did Dermot get to do the things he wanted to do in the family? How many times did Dermot and his family share in positive experiences that brought joy to him and made him happy?

I don't think a lot was done where Dermot got to make the decisions concerning what he wanted to do. Of the little that I do know, Dermot loved music. He could have talked to his parents about the groups and bands he liked, or maybe just the little signals of sharing things with them. Sadly, I think his Dad had so much rejection to many things that Dermot loved. For example, Dermot's love of music. Suppose Dermot's under his headphones, listening to his music and his Dad's pounding on his bedroom door, "Turn that s________t off!!" Or even things like movies, TV shows, other hobbies, foods that Dermot likes. Perhaps just about anything Dermot liked, his Dad couldn't stand. I have this image of so many of things that Dermot liked to do, might have been disposed by his parents, that everything and anything Dermot suggested or wanted to speak about, was met with criticism, maybe even disdain. I have a feeling that this was very true growing up in the Kelly home. It may have been painful for all the Kelly children, but it was absolutely devastating for Dermot.

I think that Dermot, for a long time, tried to understand, maybe even asked for compromises and wanted to be fair to people. I think he hated seeing people getting hurt or people in pain. He wanted to help so much with kind words and gentle ways. But inside of him, was a ticking time bomb. I don't think his parents knew it was there. Or even if they did, trying to defuse the bomb, which was Dermot's pain through "conformity therapy", may have been the worst thing they could do. His emotional sensitivity could have been seen by the parents as a sign of "feminism weakness." (Sorry for the stereotype, but I could see his Dad in particular thinking like that.) And the rebellion may have been brewing for a very long time. It may have gotten worse with Dermot and his father hating his music, his clothes, his interest in the hippie culture. "The boy" and "the man" becoming polarized beyond any repair, with years of family pain.

However, The Kelly's are committed to maintain their strong moral, conservative, religious values, and to save the family and his father's reputation as a lawyer, they CANNOT and WILL NOT disclose anything about Dermot's disappearance to the media that puts them into a bad parent light. Think about that. Even the Nation Center for Missing Children did not know about Dermot's boots and jacket found at the river, nor the gun, believed to be his under the ice. With the financial status of the family and the father's arrogance, they can't let the possibility of suicide get out to the public, or a drowning, because that would give the parents a bad stigma to the public. (i.e Family to public, with father as spokesmen.) "We raised Dermot perfectly, he choose to leave society. It was "the boy's decision." This family, especially Dermot's Dad, can't have any possibility of bad-child rearing given to the public or the press. Home life, behind closed doors, may have been closer to a painful truth. For instance, if Dermot revealed he was gay, or say his Dad walked in with Dermot engaged in some gay activity, I suspect that Mr. Kelly would have been so outraged, and he could have beaten Dermot, and/or created such a private shame, that Dermot felt that there was no longer any place in the family where he could be accepted, or maybe even feel safe, if his father was such a loose cannon. This compilation of events in Dermot's life, along with everything else around him, compelled him to leave.

I would hope that Mr. Kelly mellowed some after the tragedy, and I think given the fact that it took two years for the family to reach out to a reporter, says that it took that long for the psychic scars to heal, somewhat. What pains me is also that the Kelly's marriage was also reported to be sometimes abusive and the horror of Dermot's other siblings being hurt by all of this. I can't image the pain of them all these years not knowing what happened to their brother.

I really think that closure will come out of this case. And Dermot, if you are out there, you are a true hero and humanitarian to empathy and fairness. Let's hope that wherever Dermot and his surviving family members may be that they are experiencing peace and love.

Satch
 
As far as taking lsd and having an accident I don't think he would have chosen lsd since it lasts several hours. His parents called about him missing in under 2hrs. Dermot would have known he would have had to go home soon. But he may have taken a different drug or even no drugs and still had an accident.
I can't dismiss him telling his folks he wanted to leave because of society. I think he warned them he was leaving and intended on getting as far away from any small town as possible. He didn't make the childish threat of "I'm gonna runaway." He said he was leaving and had a good reason not based on some heat of the moment situation.
 
First id like to apologize for my inabilty to post links but Google 'Dean Corll crime scene photos ' and scroll down to the Daily Mail article and you will find the photo and story.
Apparently a documentary maker received permission to go through some belongings that Wayne Henley's mother had stored in boxes in the back of an old bus.
They were from Henley's room and have been undisturbed since 1973.
He discovered an old polaroid of a boy with longish dark brown hair on his hands and knees apparently handcuffed.
In the foreground is the tool box Dean Corll kept some of his torture instruments in.
He is not any of the known victims or according to the Harris County Coroners office the one unindentified body they still have.
I know its a long shot its Dermot but those of you more familiar with his case(then I am) might want to take a look.
 
The photo can also be seen at the Wikipedia entry for Dean Corll
 
The photo can also be seen at the Wikipedia entry for Dean Corll

This terrifies me. PLEASE DON'T LET IT BE DERMOT!!!! Guys, it's very very hard emotionally to look at the picture and out of focus. It is very painful for me to even write this. Truthfully, I do not think it is him. However, that photo is to hard for me to talk about.

Satch
 
Personally, I think unless we can find evidence of commericial river traffic picking up Dermot the day of his disappearance he entered the river accidently or purposely. I don't think he is one of Corll's victims. I haven't seen the picture recently, I did see it in the UID forum. From my best recollection, I don't think that person appeared tall enough to be Dermot.
 
Interesting,


It would be very interested to find out two very important elements in this case:

1.) Has Dermot's Social Security Number been used, since he vanished on January 30, 1972? Or Changed? Who would WS need to contact to find this out? Unless Dermot changed his Social Security Number, (can/how do people do that?) it would likely solve the mystery if he is living or not?



Satch

Snipped by me

Anyone who works for a company that issues credit cards or runs credit reports can search his SSN. Many years ago, I used to work for a department store chain's credit department. We ran SSNs all the time, and occasionally, we would find a SSN that "belonged" to more than one person. In these cases, it was usually people who bought SSNs (people who are here illegally will do this). We could see where the number originated-for example, the first three numbers of a SSN indicate the region of the country in which a person was born and issued the number. Mine starts with 55, which indicates California; my husband's starts with 47, which indicates Iowa. We could also see the year the number was issued and the name of the person to whom the number belonged.

If his number has been used since his disappearance, it might be possible to track down the user; however, it might turn out to be someone who bought the number illegally.

Anyone who is legally authorized to run credit reports can run a SSN to get this info.
 
Personally, I think unless we can find evidence of commercial river traffic picking up Dermot the day of his disappearance he entered the river accidentally or purposely. I don't think he is one of Corll's victims. I haven't seen the picture recently, I did see it in the UID forum. From my best recollection, I don't think that person appeared tall enough to be Dermot.

Thanks Cubby!

Your post made me feel better! Yea, Dermot's about 6'1" I think, pretty tall guy, the UID in the photo seems shorter, so that's a good sign it is not Dermot. And I agree about the distance too as a very negative factor. I actually remember reading somewhere on Dermot's case, that over the years, there have been people that look like him spotted, but no evidence has ever surfaced showing where he is.


Satch
 

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