LucyOso
Verified Registered Nurse
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- Apr 18, 2011
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I am going out on a limb here....LOL. I apologize for the rant. But, some people do just walk away from their lives and do it successfully...
If we are looking at reasons why familial tension was high and why Dermot may want to disappear, my guess is he was not depressed in a sense of organic or neurological depression. He may have been depressed but, I believe it was reasonable and situational. I have read the articles and believe there is some serious disconnect between the father and who he refers to as the boy. Referring to ones child in this manner says much to me. In many of the articles, there is some serious negativity about this young man, even by his teachers. As we know from Missing White Women Syndrome there was absolutely no reason why, given the socio-economics and status of this family why anyone would mix both praise and criticism unless there was a character flaw. The candidness is great 40 years later for our review, but not really appropriate at the time. As Dermot was not doing drugs and was fairly successful in school, he should not really be critiqued like a juvenile delinquent. He was a thoughtful and kind young man. So, why the marginalization?
In February of 1972 the Gay Rights Platform was held in Chicago. Suppose, Dermot, upon seeing the many articles in various newspapers discloses he is gay. Given the times, with homosexuality still treated as a mental illness and his families social standing, religion and such, this would not be taken well. He is sent hush, hush to Chicago for the standard treatment of the time, Conversion Therapy. During treatment, rather then it being therapeutic he is able to identify with others in the gay community and he forms connections with new people. It was not until 1973 and by a very small voting margin, Homosexuality was changed from a mental illness by American Psychiatry Society to a disorder. We now know far more about the LGBT communities and psychology and how unacceptable the treatments and incarcerations were at this time. So, Dermot discloses his sexuality, everyone knows because part of the treatment at the time was to closely monitor people for recidivism and deviant behaviors. His teachers know that is why they throw a negative into their statements about him. This is surprising if people actually thought he was dead, because unless someone is a truly awful person (or gay in the 1970s), we all speak of the deceased as if angelic.
So, Dermot decides to leave. If he is gay it would really give insight into how disenchanted he is with the world around him. He may have said more to the family, but, no one was listening. There is no evidence of him planning his suicide and usually people do not disclose anything if they really, really intend to end their life. He did not give away possessions nor did he completely bomb out of school or show the common signs he may be suicidal. He mentioned he was taking off to start a new life. And leaving the old life on January 30th 1972 to start a new life in 1973 would be pretty significant for a teenager. There are copious amounts of academic research out there about LGBT teens and young adults fleeing the Midwestern states during this time due to the isolation, tensions and inequality. If we research we may find some underground gay communities in the areas Kevin Kelly was searching for his son.
And, no one wants to talk about it this openly. Yes, suicide is touchy, but this is taboo. And, as we know Dermot was a kind, thoughtful individual (effeminacy?) he stages and accident to free his family from any stigma associated with him. In one of the articles the mother, I believe, eludes to the fact they do not care what type of lifestyle he is leading, they just want to know he is ok. I think this statement says more then we think. Hippies are a very broad term and most of the members of the Beat Nick Culture were openly gay. This may have been the literature he was reading and found some validation in. What I found very interesting was that he was only gone 1 hour and 45 minutes and the police were called. Perhaps the dad knew he was leaving? The sudden concern with well known struggles does not add up...
If he killed himself with a .22, which is an iffy way to attempt suicide, there would have been some evidence of blood, etc. If he was hypothermic, I don't think he could have coordinated enough to do so or had the mental capacity to do it.There is low probability he could have jumped in the water and managed to shoot himself successfully while in it. The gun found was not positively identified as his. If the scope was missing, and we are going with the hypothermia theory, I do not think he would have the fine motor skills needed to remove it. The scope was gone; it was not broken off, etc. If he chose to drown himself, he would not remove his boots and coat as most people would prefer the weight to expedite the process. I grew up in snow country and I do find hypothermia as cause of death a little odd. He was not gone very long. If he accidently was partially submerged in a creek while walking, perhaps he could have gotten to the later stages of hypothermia quickly. But, given the temperature, he could not have removed his boots due to frozen laces and fingers. In fresh water, most bodies eventually float. Even if he was pushed into the silt by a barge, wouldnt the methane build up would cause him to rise if he was not anchored by anything but mud especially in the spring?
Maybe it was staged as an accident to save face for his family? I think Dermot could have walked backwards in his tracks or jumped from boulder to boulder. Or was picked up by someone in a boat as there were many powerful and wealthy underground gays in Chicago at the time. It just does not add up. The article also states they utilized motorcycles in the search. That would imply there were not blankets of snow everywhere. Snow has very unique and readable qualities and is a very useful tool in reconstructing scenes. They also used students to search as well. If conditions were that horrible for those acclimatized to the area, would you risk the lives of other students?
I guess, what I was thinking is the father seems like a very practical type of person. If his colleagues in law enforcement presented hard evidence of Dermot drowning or killing himself, I do not think he would have continued the search out of mere hope to the extent he did. And given his disconnect from Dermot or "the boy" I don't think he would have not accepted a death. It would be interesting to know what types of cases the father worked on. Are trial lawyers elected? Word of mouth? I think maybe the sightings were accurate. I dont know if Dermot is still alive though.
I also think it is really important to try to connect with the missing and UID's on their levels, because often kids and people leave home and unknowingly enter into similar patterns and dynamics with other people. And this can make them very easy targets.
Plus, I enjoy the intellectual stimulation and hearing your ideas as well! :smile:
If we are looking at reasons why familial tension was high and why Dermot may want to disappear, my guess is he was not depressed in a sense of organic or neurological depression. He may have been depressed but, I believe it was reasonable and situational. I have read the articles and believe there is some serious disconnect between the father and who he refers to as the boy. Referring to ones child in this manner says much to me. In many of the articles, there is some serious negativity about this young man, even by his teachers. As we know from Missing White Women Syndrome there was absolutely no reason why, given the socio-economics and status of this family why anyone would mix both praise and criticism unless there was a character flaw. The candidness is great 40 years later for our review, but not really appropriate at the time. As Dermot was not doing drugs and was fairly successful in school, he should not really be critiqued like a juvenile delinquent. He was a thoughtful and kind young man. So, why the marginalization?
In February of 1972 the Gay Rights Platform was held in Chicago. Suppose, Dermot, upon seeing the many articles in various newspapers discloses he is gay. Given the times, with homosexuality still treated as a mental illness and his families social standing, religion and such, this would not be taken well. He is sent hush, hush to Chicago for the standard treatment of the time, Conversion Therapy. During treatment, rather then it being therapeutic he is able to identify with others in the gay community and he forms connections with new people. It was not until 1973 and by a very small voting margin, Homosexuality was changed from a mental illness by American Psychiatry Society to a disorder. We now know far more about the LGBT communities and psychology and how unacceptable the treatments and incarcerations were at this time. So, Dermot discloses his sexuality, everyone knows because part of the treatment at the time was to closely monitor people for recidivism and deviant behaviors. His teachers know that is why they throw a negative into their statements about him. This is surprising if people actually thought he was dead, because unless someone is a truly awful person (or gay in the 1970s), we all speak of the deceased as if angelic.
So, Dermot decides to leave. If he is gay it would really give insight into how disenchanted he is with the world around him. He may have said more to the family, but, no one was listening. There is no evidence of him planning his suicide and usually people do not disclose anything if they really, really intend to end their life. He did not give away possessions nor did he completely bomb out of school or show the common signs he may be suicidal. He mentioned he was taking off to start a new life. And leaving the old life on January 30th 1972 to start a new life in 1973 would be pretty significant for a teenager. There are copious amounts of academic research out there about LGBT teens and young adults fleeing the Midwestern states during this time due to the isolation, tensions and inequality. If we research we may find some underground gay communities in the areas Kevin Kelly was searching for his son.
And, no one wants to talk about it this openly. Yes, suicide is touchy, but this is taboo. And, as we know Dermot was a kind, thoughtful individual (effeminacy?) he stages and accident to free his family from any stigma associated with him. In one of the articles the mother, I believe, eludes to the fact they do not care what type of lifestyle he is leading, they just want to know he is ok. I think this statement says more then we think. Hippies are a very broad term and most of the members of the Beat Nick Culture were openly gay. This may have been the literature he was reading and found some validation in. What I found very interesting was that he was only gone 1 hour and 45 minutes and the police were called. Perhaps the dad knew he was leaving? The sudden concern with well known struggles does not add up...
If he killed himself with a .22, which is an iffy way to attempt suicide, there would have been some evidence of blood, etc. If he was hypothermic, I don't think he could have coordinated enough to do so or had the mental capacity to do it.There is low probability he could have jumped in the water and managed to shoot himself successfully while in it. The gun found was not positively identified as his. If the scope was missing, and we are going with the hypothermia theory, I do not think he would have the fine motor skills needed to remove it. The scope was gone; it was not broken off, etc. If he chose to drown himself, he would not remove his boots and coat as most people would prefer the weight to expedite the process. I grew up in snow country and I do find hypothermia as cause of death a little odd. He was not gone very long. If he accidently was partially submerged in a creek while walking, perhaps he could have gotten to the later stages of hypothermia quickly. But, given the temperature, he could not have removed his boots due to frozen laces and fingers. In fresh water, most bodies eventually float. Even if he was pushed into the silt by a barge, wouldnt the methane build up would cause him to rise if he was not anchored by anything but mud especially in the spring?
Maybe it was staged as an accident to save face for his family? I think Dermot could have walked backwards in his tracks or jumped from boulder to boulder. Or was picked up by someone in a boat as there were many powerful and wealthy underground gays in Chicago at the time. It just does not add up. The article also states they utilized motorcycles in the search. That would imply there were not blankets of snow everywhere. Snow has very unique and readable qualities and is a very useful tool in reconstructing scenes. They also used students to search as well. If conditions were that horrible for those acclimatized to the area, would you risk the lives of other students?
I guess, what I was thinking is the father seems like a very practical type of person. If his colleagues in law enforcement presented hard evidence of Dermot drowning or killing himself, I do not think he would have continued the search out of mere hope to the extent he did. And given his disconnect from Dermot or "the boy" I don't think he would have not accepted a death. It would be interesting to know what types of cases the father worked on. Are trial lawyers elected? Word of mouth? I think maybe the sightings were accurate. I dont know if Dermot is still alive though.
I also think it is really important to try to connect with the missing and UID's on their levels, because often kids and people leave home and unknowingly enter into similar patterns and dynamics with other people. And this can make them very easy targets.
Plus, I enjoy the intellectual stimulation and hearing your ideas as well! :smile:
