IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

[Elley Mae]

The mayor spoke to a reporter on TV last night too.
He stated that Gliniewicz was a good friend of his and that the suicide theory is malarkey (my word).

I gotta tell you that does not mean squat to me. Not directed at you, Woe.be.gone, As the saying goes, " you don't know what you don't know". I know a family that is still reeling from a family member that is a child abuser and some are pretty much in denial. jmo idk the ones that I personally know that did take their own life, there were no signs that they would do it.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

Just seems that if it is a suicide, he was feeling really hopeless about something. And as was mentioned earlier in the thread, why would he be concerned that the Explorer program would go on, despite his retirement? There is no apparent reason to think that he couldn't have continued to devote his time to that program, unless he was worried about funding or something. JMO

Woah. Ya know what? I never put this together... That could be viewed as one of the flags of suicidal behavior- tying up loose ends.


Sent from my not so humble opinion.

 

[MsFacetious]

I had an Uncle who committed suicide after a leukemia diagnosis.
Very treatable and survivable.
However he couldn't handle the thought of what the treatment entailed.
He couldn't tolerate the idea of his family caring for HIM.
He refused to become weak and sick even if it was only temporary.
Just a thought on the possible illness speculation. :twocents:

Assuming for a minute that he did see the 3 males... and he did kill himself.
What if he saw them in a setting where he knew they would HAVE an alibi.
Such as walking into the gym as he left it.
Or walking into a restaurant as he passed it.
They said they were cleared by receipts.
Maybe the Lt. saw them enter wherever those receipts were from?
So he knew they would be in that location long enough to have an alibi.

Though I also don't understand the motive for descriptors at all.
I would think it would be easy to just radio in his position, some suspicious movement and then garbled transmission, like vestigare said.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. There is a lot of information that documents the commonality of police suicide.

http://www.theiacp.org/Preventing-law-Enforcement-officer-suicide

http://www.tearsofacop.com/police/articles/dugdale.html

http://www.policeone.com/health-fitness/articles/122042-Police-officer-suicide-prevention/

It's documented that police officers have a higher suicide rate than the rest of the population.

It's also documented that more police officers commit suicide than are killed on the line of duty.

So going by this, I would argue that it would be more probable and logical that Gliniewicz actually shot himself (twice) as opposed to the idea that 2 white men and a black man took his gun, shot him with it, left the gun behind, and all disappeared without a trace before backup arrived 2 minutes later. JMO. I know that's not a happy ending. But I just want to get to the truth.

I don't think people are arguing cops don't commit suicide.
However, how many cops commit suicide in the line of duty?
How many fake it to make it look like a murder?
I know of a few off duty cops who committed suicide and it appeared to be an accident.
They clearly did that so that their family would get the life insurance.

I do not know of any cops who committed suicide ON DUTY.
I think that is where people are getting hung up.
It isn't the suicide part... it's the suicide while on duty made to look like a murder.

Police from Fox Lake suffer PTSD?
I don't doubt inner city police have good reasons to develop ptsd.
But, Fox Lake LE, not as likely imo.

ABC is covering Joe Battaglia's court appearance.
His attorney claims he has no knowledge of or direct connection to the investigation. JB was just trying to provoke (my word) more information about the case (typical lawyer comment).

Filenko was in court today but didn't talk to reporters.
Investigators he leads do not have results from ballistics, gun shot residue, or "significant dna" recovered from the scene of CJG's death.
All theories being discussed are still open.

Judge refused a bond reduction for JB.

He wasn't only a cop he was also in the military.
Two high PTSD professions right there.
Not that regular people cannot develop PTSD from other events as well.

 

[i.b.nora]

Woah. Ya know what? I never put this together... That could be viewed as one of the flags of suicidal behavior- tying up loose ends.

Preee...cisely!!! That was my first clue that all was not as it seemed.

 

[Mountaingazer]

Kind of OT, but I really don't like the attitude LE seems to be taking about suicide. Suicide doesn't suddenly mean the person is a horrible person no longer worthy of respect. Suicide (for the most part) is one outcome of an illness an outcome that for the most part can be prevented if the person feels comfortable coming forward and getting treatment. Acting like it is cowardly, horrible, sign of weakness, etc is exactly why people don't seek treatment and ultimately end up killing themselves.

If he did kill himself it doesn't make any of his accomplishments or the good he has done in this world obsolete.

I know other things like death benefits come into play in this case, but I wish they would stop acting like suicide is a dirty word in this case.

 

[katydid23]

Preee...cisely!!! That was my first clue that all was not as it seemed.

But if he was just retiring he would have had those same concerns about the Explorer Program continuing. Even if he was willing to donate his time, it takes money and other volunteers. If he was no longer on the job and there was a new Chief, it could have been put on the back burner very easily.

 

[vestigare]

I don't know the answer to how many cops kill themselves on duty. Our how many tried to make it look like an accident or homicide. I am sure there are some that managed to pull it off. Others who the first on the scene never even noticed they were trying to make it look like anything but suicide and then probably more than few where fellow cops covered it up.

I doubt Gliniewicz was the first to have this idea and attempt it.

 

[katydid23]

Kind of OT, but I really don't like the attitude LE seems to be taking about suicide. Suicide doesn't suddenly mean the person is a horrible person no longer worthy of respect. Suicide (for the most part) is one outcome of an illness an outcome that for the most part can be prevented if the person feels comfortable coming forward and getting treatment. Acting like it is cowardly, horrible, sign of weakness, etc is exactly why people don't seek treatment and ultimately end up killing themselves.

If he did kill himself it doesn't make any of his accomplishments or the good he has done in this world obsolete.

I know other things like death benefits come into play in this case, but I wish they would stop acting like suicide is a dirty word in this case.

I don't think it is 'suicide' in general that is upsetting LE. It is an officer committing suicide and pretending it was murder during a foot chase that is very upsetting to them.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know the answer to how many cops kill themselves on duty. Our how many tried to make it look like an accident or homicide. I am sure there are some that managed to pull it off. Others who the first on the scene never even noticed they were trying to make it look like anything but suicide and then probably more than few where fellow cops covered it up.

I doubt Gliniewicz was the first to have this idea and attempt it.

I know of 4 officers who are suspected of killing themselves on duty. but they did it in a way that made it impossible to prove it was suicide so they got full payouts. Three were auto accidents--all of them were 'one vehicle' accidents. One drove off a cliff, one off a high bridge, one into an abutment. And one was cleaning his gun in the precinct office and 'accidentally' shot himself in the chest. Their co-workers thought they killed themselves but they gave them much respect because they understood the backstories.

 

[Montjoy]

Kind of OT, but I really don't like the attitude LE seems to be taking about suicide. Suicide doesn't suddenly mean the person is a horrible person no longer worthy of respect. Suicide (for the most part) is one outcome of an illness an outcome that for the most part can be prevented if the person feels comfortable coming forward and getting treatment. Acting like it is cowardly, horrible, sign of weakness, etc is exactly why people don't seek treatment and ultimately end up killing themselves.

If he did kill himself it doesn't make any of his accomplishments or the good he has done in this world obsolete.

I know other things like death benefits come into play in this case, but I wish they would stop acting like suicide is a dirty word in this case.

I think your post is terrific.

LE are statistically more likely than the average citizen to kill themselves, and yet there is a stigma. This man was also a military veteran, so he would be even more at risk.

Some of the work I do is with a population that are highly over-represented with respect to suicide. Expert opinion suggests that part of the problem is that the elders of this community -- people whose opinions are, at least ideally, highly respected -- believe that discussing a problem will tend to make it worse. I'm unsure about this, myself, and looking at the statistics over the years I have to doubt that whatever strategy is in play is not working.

Myself, part of what bothers me here is that many people seem to believe that it is somehow worse that the officer may have killed himself rather than being killed by someone else.

My thoughts are that dead is dead. All other things being equal, I somehow think that it's worse to have someone else decide when you should die as opposed to deciding yourself. Now, I do wish that anyone who was feeling that way would seek help, but that's sort of besides the point. I don't know why anyone would think it preferable that someone was killed by another rather than killed by themselves. Both options suck, but since it's one's own life, I have to think that it is marginally less horrible to die at ones own hands.

As per Mountaingazer, I think that the stigma surrounding suicide has a lot to do with the relatively high rate of suicide among some populations, like LEOs. And so when I read so many posts here that seem to be aghast at the possibility of suicide, I hope that we're not contributing to the problem.

 

[bluesneakers]

I know of 4 officers who are suspected of killing themselves on duty. but they did it in a way that made it impossible to prove it was suicide so they got full payouts. Three were auto accidents--all of them were 'one vehicle' accidents. One drove off a cliff, one off a high bridge, one into an abutment. And one was cleaning his gun in the precinct office and 'accidentally' shot himself in the chest. Their co-workers thought they killed themselves but they gave them much respect because they understood the backstories.

IMO they shouldn't have to do that. Survivors shouldn't be punished because their loved one committed suicide. Can you imagine feeling like you can't go on, but you can't leave your family in financial straits? Like life isn't hard enough we have to put someone in that position.

 

[i.b.nora]

But if he was just retiring he would have had those same concerns about the Explorer Program continuing. Even if he was willing to donate his time, it takes money and other volunteers. If he was no longer on the job and there was a new Chief, it could have been put on the back burner very easily.

Even if that were the case, and I don't believe it to necessarily be true, or to believe it is what would have happened, he could have donated his own funds from the generous pensions he would be receiving in his retirement. And others were already equally involved with the program, including his own wife.

 

[tcer114]

I have (and continue to) not believe this was a suicide,however:

That's a great observation.
(edit) to also thank Cady who also had the same thought

I completely over looked this...Getting Behan's position would have been a real reversal of fortune.

IMO:

The conversation with the Mayor the previous day may have included a lot more than the Mayor exposed us to.

A dedicated proud man getting turned down twice would most likely be feeling a lot of hurt over his perceived failure.

It explains the muddled statements about when Lt. Joe's actual retirement date was to be...

The Mayor essentially kicked him in the crotch with the rejection for the Fox Lake Chief Of Police position,Lt Gliniewicz's next destination was retirement but the Mayor wanted him to stay around to provide stability.... The conversation may well have been somewhat contentious.

Less than 24 hours later he's got a dead cop in his Police Department.
The Mayor's malarkey about Joe discussing his wishes for the Explorers during their final meeting would put a nice warm fuzzy easily digestible cover story on what actually transpired.

According to news sources he never even began the paperwork for retirement. Maybe he threw retirement out at this meeting when the Fox Lake chief of police job wasn't offered to him?

 

[vestigare]

I know of 4 officers who are suspected of killing themselves on duty. but they did it in a way that made it impossible to prove it was suicide so they got full payouts. Three were auto accidents--all of them were 'one vehicle' accidents. One drove off a cliff, one off a high bridge, one into an abutment. And one was cleaning his gun in the precinct office and 'accidentally' shot himself in the chest. Their co-workers thought they killed themselves but they gave them much respect because they understood the backstories.

Wow I would think some of the car accidents if not in hot pursuit or responding to an emergency would be deemed negligence or reckless driving so they wouldn't get full benefits. Same for cleaning the gun. That is pure negligence..

I am sure some were suicide and others were just stupid.

 

[katydid23]

Even if that were the case, and I don't believe it to necessarily be true, or to believe it is what would have happened, he could have donated his own funds from the generous pensions he would be receiving in his retirement. And others were already equally involved with the program, including his own wife.

But people are speculating that just the fact that he asked about the future of the program is somehow proof he was planning suicide. Wouldn't he also ask that same question if he was retiring and looking at other future job prospects?

And why would he give his pension over, when he had 3 sons in college at the time. Pretty bad timing to consider doing so. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Wow I would think some of the car accidents if not in hot pursuit or responding to an emergency would be deemed negligence or reckless driving so they wouldn't get full benefits. Same for cleaning the gun. That is pure negligence..

I am sure some were suicide and others were just stupid.

Accidents are accidents. They do not always have to be considered negligent. Cops drive hundreds of thousands of miles during their career. The chances that they might eventually be in an accident are very high. Even without any hint of negligence.
The same with cleaning their weapons. It is something they do routinely. It is possible they get distracted and make a huge mistake. What good is insurance if it only pays when a person is doing everything perfect?

 

[vestigare]

Accidents are accidents. They do not always have to be considered negligent. Cops drive hundreds of thousands of miles during their career. The chances that they might eventually be in an accident are very high. Even without any hint of negligence.
The same with cleaning their weapons. It is something they do routinely. It is possible they get distracted and make a huge mistake. What good is insurance if it only pays when a person is doing everything perfect?

Hey I don't write the policies. Ever read the PSOB it talks about hot pursuit, emergency calls and negligent driving. Read your insurance policy, you will be amazed how many things invalidate it or are excluded.

You can pay more and be allowed to get away with more but considering tax payers are paying these insurance policies I don't particularly like having them abused.

 

[vestigare]

According to news sources he never even began the paperwork for retirement. Maybe he threw retirement out at this meeting when the Fox Lake chief of police job wasn't offered to him?

I am not sure how long retirement paperwork takes around there. Behan seems to have accomplished his in less than a week so maybe gliniewicz was waiting to see what panned out and was holding it as a threat?

 

[looking4OPH]

Which snap fitness did he usually work out at? The one right in fox lake is open 24/7, most snap fitness 's are, though there are some that don't stay open all the time.

Locations closest to home/work, although I thought it was established that he used the "Snap Cave" in Fox Lake. These are the "staffed hours", although they appear to be "open" 24/7.

Fox Lake
http://www.snapfitness.com/gyms/foxlake-il-60020/1367
Tuesday 10:00 AM - 1:00 PM 4:00 PM - 7:00 PM

Lake Villa
http://www.snapfitness.com/gyms/lakevilla-il-60046/354
Tuesday 9:00 AM - 11:00 AM 3:00 PM - 7:00 PM

Round Lake
http://www.snapfitness.com/gyms/roundlake-il-60073/353
Tuesday 10:00 AM - 1:00 PM 4:00 PM - 7:00 PM

Trevor
http://www.snapfitness.com/gyms/trevor-wi-53179/212
Tuesday 8:00 AM - 11:00 AM 4:00 PM - 7:00 PM

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The mayor spoke to a reporter on TV last night too.
He stated that Gliniewicz was a good friend of his and that the suicide theory is malarkey (my word).

lol~ Quoting myself to give credit where credit is due - the word "malarkey" really belongs to night train (post #670)!
The seldom used word must have stuck in my subconscious and I believed I pulled it up myself. Obviously, I'm full of malarkey!