IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

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Rudd said he is still waiting for critical evidence before finalizing his report and determining a manner of death for Gliniewicz,


“We need the DNA on the gun, we need the fingerprints on the gun, we need the DNA that they found, that they claim is not related to the officer,” Rudd said. “We need the gunshot residue from the officer’s clothing and anything else.”
Without that evidence, Rudd says investigators are left in a difficult position.


Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ke-Investigation-327949911.html#ixzz3lxFKwP4n
Follow us: @nbcchicago on Twitter | nbcchicago on Facebook



 
lol~ Quoting myself to give credit where credit is due - the word "malarkey" really belongs to night train (post #670)!
The seldom used word must have stuck in my subconscious and I believed I pulled it up myself. Obviously, I'm full of malarkey!

My father used that word a lot. Typically when speaking of politicians. He'd also say "that's a load of bunk." Or that someone was full of baloney. This from a man whose worst cuss word was "what in the Sam Hill???"
 
I have been trying to catch up on the threads. (I wrote the below post a day ago and have yet to catch up on the new pages so pardon if I repeat anything that is new in the last day and a half.

I once lived in the area, familiar with the lay out and I have family who own a business extremely close to the location the officer was shot. (No, they didn't hear it)

A few things I wanted to point out and suggest regarding some observations and questions.

1) There are inconsistent statements as to whether or not the officer had worked out that morning prior to work or had come directly from his hometown. Two options of routes would be 59 and the other Grass Lake down to Route 12. From looking at the FB page it seems he worked out at Snap Fitness which is near the intersection of Grass Lake Rd. Hence, had the officer worked out prior to his shift, the likely viable route would have been 12 which would have allowed for him to have made the observations he called in. I was also questioning how this played out until I read that he may have worked out that morning.

2) Thoughts regarding a set-up in relation to the issues in the department. My thought is PURELY speculation as a response to this theory posed by other posters. Some of the ideas as to how this would have transpired in relation to the department issues, seem a little far fetched and too complicated to be reality. Perhaps, if it is simplified it could make more sense. Let's say hypothetically if the officer was a witness or whistleblower in the department issues and there was some form of a "hit" called out on him. Whom better would know this Officers patrol routes, duties etc etc... ?? Those within the department? Ding Ding Ding. (Though I don’t believe it was an officer or someone within the department that would be here but with the use of outside parties to commit the crime) It would then not be as far fetched to have a preconceived plan in place and awaiting for this particular officer to arrive to this location. If you recall his radio transmission in to dispatch, he references the old cement factory but near the equipment south of Honing. Location was broken down to be more precise. Now, stop and think about this for a moment - 7:52 AM we know the officer indicated he had a visual on these “subjects” but think about this for a moment. While it does not seem like a long time 3 minutes can be an eternity. What happened in this 3 minutes? What words were exchanged? I doubt for 3 minutes they all just stared one another down. There could have even been an altercation or confrontation at this point but time was of the essence and maybe with his vetted experience thought he could handle the situation in just letting dispatch know they subjects took off on him. He didn’t ask for backup, it was asked upon him twice. This is a little strange to me but perhaps not so. If he started to pursue on his own into the woods without maintaining a visual he could have easily been ambushed. Shot once, enough to bring him to his knees, with the second shot being within close range and pointed downward. Quite possible and you don’t even need to have the conspiracy theory of this being a set up. It could be exactly what was reported. While I don’t personally fully buy into this scenario of a set up, it is Illinois and I am quite familiar with the corruption issues throughout the state and it is not lost within various police departments. There has been rumblings that this retired officer from CPD is somehow related to “family” type organizations which would make his threats more interesting (but sloppy, which doesn’t fit their “Mo”) if this scenario is more plausible. This area is no stranger to those types of outfits which go hand in hand with the drug trade. Just do a little googling. It is food for thought enough to throw into a pool of theories. Also, there was a chicago pd officer with the same name that was reprimanded for 15 months for trying to peddle drugs that were seized second hand. Can’t verify if it is same person but the name is the same it is on the www if you google it.

7:52 AM
6740 = I'm at (inaudible) the old concrete plant, checking on two male white, male black, uh, by the equipment south of Honing.

Dispatch = Ten-4. Did you need a second unit?

6740 = Negative, Dispatch.

7:55 AM
6740 = They took off towards the swamp.

Dispatch = 740, Ten-4, did you need a second unit?

6740 = Yeah, now go ahead and start somebody.

8:01 AM Two backup officers arrive.


3) The suicide theory. Likely when I started writing above my thoughts were still pretty dead set against it for numerous reasons. However, in going back through the transcript, I can find the flip side to the argument as being plausible. I could take the same factor of the precise location given to dispatch. Officer declining backup. I can see this though logically, a veteran officer, small town etc.. Hypothetically, if there are no actual subjects. The 3 minutes could have allowed to get to the location near the swamp if the intention was to commit suicide. Then alerting dispatch to “where the unknown offenders” were heading (To find/locate body). I do find it strange that he comes on the radio with “They took off towards the swamp” with nothing else described or requested. What gets me would be the use of the word “NOW” “Now, go ahead” .. Liken the old term “Ready or not, here I come” ..”Now I am ready”. I could be reading to much into it but I have sat through a few statement analysis lectures in the past and words in how they are spoken/structured are more powerful than most people realize. This officer doesn’t strike as the type who would set up an elaborate scheme to do something like this. He seemed like a man of honor and took his job serious and to heart. If this does turn out to be a suicide, I have to wonder if that sentiment alone could have driven him to take his own life. He obviously wasn’t ready to retire as he was seeking the Chief position in Antioch. Also, something to consider is that I noticed he had a massive arm injury last year, even showed the stitches and cast on his FB photos. I wonder if this happened at work? If it did he would have been looking at a nice work comp settlement as Illinois is overly worker friendly, that even the frauds are paid well when faking injury. Had the injury not happened at work then he would not be covered by work comp, possibly loosing wages or on desk duty etc… Also, I wouldn’t put to much thought into this as many people “joke” around about things without ever realizing them but in one of the photos there was mention of him running a mud run twice in the day and his wife joking that she needs to up his life insurance policy. Again, totally not related but it is scary to think how past words can haunt. I also would think a seasoned handler of weapons would realize how this would be found out but again he was seasoned and perhaps felt he could get around this.

4) I also feel that if these unknown offenders were younger, the officer would have likely used the term “Juveniles” in his his description. Just a thought.
 
Locations closest to home/work, although I thought it was established that he used the "Snap Cave" in Fox Lake. These are the "staffed hours", although they appear to be "open" 24/7.

Fox Lake
http://www.snapfitness.com/gyms/foxlake-il-60020/1367
Tuesday 10:00 AM - 1:00 PM 4:00 PM - 7:00 PM

Lake Villa
http://www.snapfitness.com/gyms/lakevilla-il-60046/354
Tuesday 9:00 AM - 11:00 AM 3:00 PM - 7:00 PM

Round Lake
http://www.snapfitness.com/gyms/roundlake-il-60073/353
Tuesday 10:00 AM - 1:00 PM 4:00 PM - 7:00 PM

Trevor
http://www.snapfitness.com/gyms/trevor-wi-53179/212
Tuesday 8:00 AM - 11:00 AM 4:00 PM - 7:00 PM

Wow, these are fairly limited hours compared to fitness centers near me. More like Banker's hours!
So, neither of these two Fox Lake centers would have been open yet at the time of his death.

Oh, correction, they're open but not staffed?
That seems strange to me but?
I remember using unmanned laundromats years ago.
The fitness centers must have very good security systems if this is the case.
 
Wow, these are fairly limited hours compared to fitness centers near me. More like Banker's hours!
So, neither of these two Fox Lake centers would have been open yet at the time of his death.
I'm not a Snap Fitness customer, but they all list as an Amentity, "24/7 Access". I take this to mean there is someone behind the counter during the above hours, but anyone can enter (with a membership card swipe?) and use the facility at any time. Don't understand how that doesn't setup the business owner for issues with nobody present, but that's what their websites say.
 
“The difficult position is this – we don’t have a perpetrator that we know of right now,” he said. “It’s very difficult to label this a homicide.”

<snip>

&#8220;If the crime task force does not have any particular evidence of a perpetrator of this officer&#8217;s death, i.e. homicide, then they have to consider the other manners of death, which is suicide, accident and undetermined,&#8221; he said.


Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ke-Investigation-327949911.html#ixzz3lxHzqHSk
Follow us: @nbcchicago on Twitter | nbcchicago on Facebook



 


Rudd said he is still waiting for critical evidence before finalizing his report and determining a manner of death for Gliniewicz,


&#8220;We need the DNA on the gun, we need the fingerprints on the gun, we need the DNA that they found, that they claim is not related to the officer,&#8221; Rudd said. &#8220;We need the gunshot residue from the officer&#8217;s clothing and anything else.&#8221;
Without that evidence, Rudd says investigators are left in a difficult position.


Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ke-Investigation-327949911.html#ixzz3lxFKwP4n
Follow us: @nbcchicago on Twitter | nbcchicago on Facebook




Rudd's reasoning makes total sense to me.
I'd be frustrated too if what he says is true.

LE should have explained that they've been unable to provide the coroner with all the information needed in order to determine COD.
Instead Filenko made it sound as if Rudd was delaying the case.
 
&#8220;The difficult position is this &#8211; we don&#8217;t have a perpetrator that we know of right now,&#8221; he said. &#8220;It&#8217;s very difficult to label this a homicide.&#8221;

<snip>

&#8220;If the crime task force does not have any particular evidence of a perpetrator of this officer&#8217;s death, i.e. homicide, then they have to consider the other manners of death, which is suicide, accident and undetermined,&#8221; he said.


Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ke-Investigation-327949911.html#ixzz3lxHzqHSk
Follow us: @nbcchicago on Twitter | nbcchicago on Facebook




I am not sure I understand the quote, nor this opinion that because we haven't been able to name the suspects, that they must not exist and therefore need to look elsewhere. There are hundreds of unsolved murders every year. I get the logic that because we don't have a perpetrator it is difficult to label it a homicide.
 
JUST A NOTE TO EVERYONE! I HAVE TERRIBLE CREDIT. MORE DEBT THAN INCOME. I HAVE 3 KIDS WHO ARE FAST APPROACHING COLLEGE AGE. I SOMETIMES GET DEPRESSED. I AM NOT IN THE VERY BEST OF HEALTH. I HAVE A HALF MILLION DOLLAR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY.

IF I AM FOUND DEAD....I DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE!!!! I REPEAT!!! I DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE!!!!

(I don't know but all this talk about reasons for suicide has me a bit jumpy...lol...)
 
I'm not a Snap Fitness customer, but they all list as an Amentity, "24/7 Access". I take this to mean there is someone behind the counter during the above hours, but anyone can enter (with a membership card swipe?) and use the facility at any time. Don't understand how that doesn't setup the business owner for issues with nobody present, but that's what their websites say.

Therefore, we're back to wondering if Gliniewicz had worked out or not earlier.
It is interesting that no one has spoken out about his routine and if he followed it that morning or not. Usually, after this amount of time, a timeline is available as to what the person was doing leading up to the crime/incident/disappearance.
No one is offering squat in this case.
 
I am not sure I understand the quote, nor this opinion that because we haven't been able to name the suspects, that they must not exist and therefore need to look elsewhere. There are hundreds of unsolved murders every year. I get the logic that because we don't have a perpetrator it is difficult to label it a homicide.


No one needs a named perpetrator to determine a perpetrator exists. That's why we have tons and tons of cold cases and unknown dna in codis which doesn't yet match up to any known perpetrator. What the coroner is saying, imo, is quite clear. There is no evidence to determine a perpetrator which can be connected to Lt. CG's death. The radio call isn't enough evidence for the coroner to rule this a homicide and to date that is the only evidence found that led investigators to consider homicide.
 
Therefore, we're back to wondering if Gliniewicz had worked out or not earlier.
It is interesting that no one has spoken out about his routine and if he followed it that morning or not. Usually, after this amount of time, a timeline is available as to what the person was doing leading up to the crime/incident/disappearance.
No one is offering squat in this case.

The 24 hour gyms work on some kind of key code entry and they have video surveillance. I'm sure if he worked out that morning it was determined and verified via use of the key code and surveillance, in case someone had his key code.
 
If a professional swimmer drowns; The coroner would need more information to see if someone else was involved or if it was accidental. Especially if he already ruled out drowning due to natural causes (heart attack, etc). Plus especially if there are no defensive wounds or other wounds on the swimmer. So it would be up to LE or a witness to provide information where the coroner can make the best determination.

This tells me that the murder is not cut and dry.
 
I'm not a Snap Fitness customer, but they all list as an Amentity, "24/7 Access". I take this to mean there is someone behind the counter during the above hours, but anyone can enter (with a membership card swipe?) and use the facility at any time. Don't understand how that doesn't setup the business owner for issues with nobody present, but that's what their websites say.

Interview with the Snap Fitness owner here at 0:50, although no mention of hours or reviewing surveillance footage.
http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/15604276-story

And another report establishing Fox Lake as his membership location.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...e-cop-shot-gliniewicz-met-20150901-story.html
 
JUST A NOTE TO EVERYONE! I HAVE TERRIBLE CREDIT. MORE DEBT THAN INCOME. I HAVE 3 KIDS WHO ARE FAST APPROACHING COLLEGE AGE. I SOMETIMES GET DEPRESSED. I AM NOT IN THE VERY BEST OF HEALTH. I HAVE A HALF MILLION DOLLAR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY.

IF I AM FOUND DEAD....I DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE!!!! I REPEAT!!! I DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE!!!!

(I don't know but all this talk about reasons for suicide has me a bit jumpy...lol...)

Like you, I feel that it would be unfair to label a death a suicide if, indeed, it was not. By doing that, the real killer is off the hook too.
That doesn't mean I think people who take their own lives are "bad" people.
In my family we encourage each other to never take their life into their own hands. I'm not here to judge another person's depths of despair but, no matter how low I go, I don't believe I'd ever leave my loved ones in that manner. Sometimes they are the ones who are causing my problems too!
But I want to be strong in my Lord and, if and when I suffer, I will still trust it is for some reason I don't understand yet.

Sometimes, I feel people almost promote suicide or try to erase the idea there are real, long term ramifications when someone makes that decision. When it comes to young people especially, I would never want to give the impression it is the correct solution to solving a problem.
 
JUST A NOTE TO EVERYONE! I HAVE TERRIBLE CREDIT. MORE DEBT THAN INCOME. I HAVE 3 KIDS WHO ARE FAST APPROACHING COLLEGE AGE. I SOMETIMES GET DEPRESSED. I AM NOT IN THE VERY BEST OF HEALTH. I HAVE A HALF MILLION DOLLAR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY.

IF I AM FOUND DEAD....I DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE!!!! I REPEAT!!! I DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE!!!!

(I don't know but all this talk about reasons for suicide has me a bit jumpy...lol...)

Just one Websluether to another, maybe you might consider sending one of us a message. Let's forget the posts in the past. PM me or someone you like if you want to. I promise I'll write back immediately.
 
Interview with the Snap Fitness owner here at 0:50, although no mention of hours or reviewing surveillance footage.
http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/15604276-story

And another report establishing Fox Lake as his membership location.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...e-cop-shot-gliniewicz-met-20150901-story.html

Thanks.
I have no way of knowing if a link exists to the phone call I heard between an anchor (not even sure what station I was watching) and the Snap Fitness person who has access to surveillance via her home computer system. Finding it would probably involve reviewing tapes to complete news hours - you know how they try to contact insiders and get their comments on air right away. Someone found her though unless she called in and offered info herself.

It seems to me she was focusing on surveillance outside the Snap Fitness building. Inside surveillance wasn't mentioned iirc.
Maybe that exists which is why she was looking outside?
We just don't know but maybe LE knows. They should know by now anyway.
 
JUST A NOTE TO EVERYONE! I HAVE TERRIBLE CREDIT. MORE DEBT THAN INCOME. I HAVE 3 KIDS WHO ARE FAST APPROACHING COLLEGE AGE. I SOMETIMES GET DEPRESSED. I AM NOT IN THE VERY BEST OF HEALTH. I HAVE A HALF MILLION DOLLAR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY.

IF I AM FOUND DEAD....I DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE!!!! I REPEAT!!! I DID NOT COMMIT SUICIDE!!!!

(I don't know but all this talk about reasons for suicide has me a bit jumpy...lol...)

We will put that in your obituary to make sure that your family gets paid. Plus for 50k; We will bribe the coroner just in case. Lol.
 
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